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[solenttit]

I have just been look at my copy of Man o' War on the V & W class. The  pictures show that during wartime the boot topping extends, in some cases, to about half way up the second strake down from the deck. So if you extend the boot topping on the model to about this level and have her sitting in the water to that level it will be perfectly correct.

She should also have bilge keels fitted as well and I have been unable to find a picture of a V&W with a propeller guard rail perhaps I should add.

Apart from that it is a nice model though I'm unsure what camouflage pattern you have used. and it gives me a bit of a nudge to make a start on mine, I have hull no. 4.

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Solenttit

Your comment re the propeller guard is no doubt quite correct, however in this case the guard does have a practical purpose, as the propellers do indeed extend out beyond the side of the hull ... rather be a little incorrect and spare those big props than look correct while accidentally chipping away at the propellers any time she comes alongside a concrete retaining wall....yes that does not say a lot for my helmsmanship 

As to the level of the boot topping, I think half way up the second strake might be a little extreme, but certainly raising it up between 1/4" & 1/2" would work quite well, though I think I will need more than 3 lbs of extra ballast to get her to sit that low ... she is pretty buoyant when sitting on an even keel.

And the camouflage scheme .. well that's all my own handiwork; Yep, it's true, I'm a barbarian, not a purist 

[DickyD]

Hi Bluebird
I have just corresponded with Paul Simpson of Sirmar, who seconds your recommendations, although he does say, if I absolutely must put an external keel on her, to make it detachable, so as to preserve the correct outline while sitting on display. I'll try more of the internal ballasting before resorting to any outboard monstrosity. I'll just have to put up with her sitting a little deep in the water

Hi Solitary Sailor you must be a very brave man asking our mate Paul if you can put an extra keel on one of his excellent hulls.

I think I would try the route of the lead sheet first. I had a similar problem with my Milford Star trawler that wanted to fall on its side as soon as the wind blew, never got to try turning a corner.
Anyway a layer of sheet lead along the inside of the hull solved the problem.

[Edward Pinniger]

Looks very good! Interesting paint scheme, too - I don't think I've ever seen that two-tone green before on "Western Approaches" style camouflage. Will you be adding any weathering to the finished model? This would certainly help to give it an authentic "Atlantic escort" look.

I'm also planning to build a V&W in future, once one of my current R/C builds (probably the USCG cutter) is finished. This is a 1/64 scale scratchbuilt GRP hull which I picked up second-hand, and I'm planning to build it as the Thornycroft-built (slightly different to the standard Admiralty design) HMS Viscount, as my great-uncle served as chief ERA on this ship during WW2. Ideally I'd like to build my model as Viscount in its wartime Long Range Escort (LRE) fit, but plans only seem to be available for the ship "as fitted" in late WW1, so that's probably what I'll build. I may end up asking for some help with ballasting!

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Richard

What happened to your Milford Star, sounds like she went to join the choir invisible down Davie Jones way, at least from the tone of your last comment on her.   

As to a detachable external keel ...No NOOOOO, me not so bold, that was Paul's suggestion 

As I said elsewhere, I'll be getting the old pot out to do some more casting ... in smaller bits this time, keeping everything to the centerline, and the raising the boot topping.

[DickyD]

Milford Star went onto the pond upright and came out of the pond on its side. All OK though and with lead ballast is now fine.

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Edward

Not sure about the weathering, never tried it before. The paint scheme, yeah, that's all my own doing, my dedication to scale only goes so far, as I do this to enjoy myself, not to be driven to distraction ... I'm a rebel without a cause  

By the time you get around to building your own V & W I should have sorted out my own stability problems and will be willing and happy to pass along my hard won experience  

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Richard

Sorry to hear about Milford Star's little fauxpass. Glad to hear that the salvage operation was a complete success. I have a similar tale, a while back I built a little model  called Marina II, an Atlantic fishing vessel. It was from a kit by Artesina Latina, and was intended as a static model ... so I said "right then, we'll see about that". She made it a little further than the poor old Milford Star, to about the 5th turn she hit. Like you, I was quick to the resue, and caught her before she went down, but not before everything inside got a good soaking

 

[John W E]

hi there Solitary sailor

here is a thought for ya; can you, in your country, still get lead shot/the equivalent - the type of shot I am thinking of is the type of shot they use in 12-bore shot gun cartridges (small round lead balls) or the small lead shot - the stuff the fly-fisherman use.  The idea being - set the model in the test tank/bath at home; and then pour quantities of lead shot into the hull and various areas where it accessible - so that lead shot will roll down the hull (inside) to the centre of the keel.   

It will therefore fill any little voids with lead shot.

Once she is ballasted sufficiently and correctly you could mix some polyester resin/epoxy and pour this over the top of the lead shot - and this in turn will seal the lead shot in place.   The only drawback is that it is virtually permanent.  So if it has to be removed, it its a mega/big job.   

Worth a thought.

It's a system I have used before - where I have ballasted a plank on frame model, where I had built the internal frames a little too high.


aye
john

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi John

Yea, I can get lead shot here. I have tried that method before, many moons ago, and with quite considerable success, Though you are quite correct, should I ever have reason to remove it, I'd be cursing someone's memory 

Oh, and the bathtub, no can do, even with the large tub we do have ... she don't fit ... the model is 78" long. So every test must be at the lake's edge, and it really is a two handed effort getting her out of the apartment, down the stairs, and out to the lake, although I did make up my own model boat trailer, set to carry several different models ... sort of one trailer does all, hopefully including any future models. As a few of the neighbors have mentioned, I look like an overgrown kid pulling my trailer around     Oh well, what's life for, if you can't enjoy it's little pleasures   

[The long Build]

could you not put some form of plastic sheeting down first and then apply the leadshot and resin ? it  would still take the shape but not be attached to the boat..

[gingyer]

bluebird mentioned using resin to fix the lead shot
I know people who used a candle and melerd the wax on top to hold
the shot into place easier to get out then than resin

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Gingyer

That's a great tip gingyer, thanks 

[Solitary Sailor]

Given that my photographic technique leaves much to be desired. Hence the flash making the ship look all shinny bright  I thought I might try some experimenting, as long as Martin doesn't mind. So here are a couple of new shots sans flash ... a bit dark, but they show the boat without all that shinny brightness, which is a truer reflect of how she actually looks

[Jimmy James]

If you want to try weathering I use wood stain. mostly light oak but also red mahogany and dark Jacobean oak. If you use a small brush and let a drop or two of red run down the Hawse pipes followed by a drop of Jacobean oak you get that two tone effect that looks quite good. Swab down the decks with light oak and they start to get that long time at sea look and a few dabs of red oxide here and there make it look as if the crew has been doing repair and maintenance work. The same on the hull brings the ship to life and looks as if she has just returned from a long hard patrol
Freebooter

[gingyer]

I would disagree I am afraid Jimmy
I was taught to do weathering using either pastels or oil paints
the good thing about these is

the oil paints take about a day+ to dry so f you don't like the result once you have painted it you can wipe it off

the Pastels need to be applied then sealed so you need to put a varnish over it when you are happy to seal it into position

Colin

[Solitary Sailor]

Jimmy.  gingyer

Thanks for the tips guys ... I think  .

I shall have to do a little experimenting before I go near "my precious"

My son is into "Warhammer" and is quite good at painting the intricate details on his many, many figures. To get a weathered look on his models he uses "washes" which I believe are a kind of ink. As I say, I think I have some experimenting to do.

Been unable to tackle the stability problems as I've hurt my back .... again ... groan    I have however, managed to cut up that long lump of lead, seen in one of the photographs above, and inserted it inside the hull along the centerline, where I managed to find some space. So, with a little duct tape (to stop things sliding around), plus I have a further 3 lbs in bags if needed, I'll find a place somewhere, somehow. I should be ready for new trials as soon as mother nature lets me out again.

[gingyer]

If you have never weathered before
I would suggest getting one of those 1:35th scale tanks
and using that for experiments once you have painted it and weathered it
spray it again with primer an start again it means you can use and abuse it
then when yo are happy you know what you are doing put it in a box then
use it again in in years to come to practice other painting techniques

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi gingyer

Great minds and all ... I have a couple of Tamiya 1/35 scale tanks sitting beside my bed, for just that purpose. 

[Jimmy James]

Gingyer
 Pastels and oil paints work OK so doze the dirty water and thinners you clean you brushes in which is great for hi lighting details like plate seams and rivets, certain inks also work extremely well. I don't think any system is wrong as long as you get the desired results. I find that most modelers have their favorite ways of doing it and their favored medium to work in. I have tried most ways and still use a combonation of Mediums at times --- But the choice is allways up to the modeler " Different Ships Different Long Splices" 
Jimmy
Freebooter

[Solitary Sailor]

WHOO Hoo Mother nature allowed me out to play today. 

Well after being laid up for a couple of weeks, I finally got to test the boat with some added lead. 1 3/4 lbs between the prop shafts near the motors, and a further 2 1/4 lbs under the bridge structure. The boat still lists a little to port, nothing either a little shifting around wont fix, or maybe some small extra ballast will do the trick. She now sits very slightly over the existing boot topping, so if I extend it up about 1/4" it will be correct.

Still better to slow down for the corners, but no longer looks like she might capsize coming about. So  for reference, there is now about 12 3/4 lbs of lead, plus motors, electrics, batteries, sound system, fuses, and radio system on board. There was a light breeze blowing which did not affect the stability in any noticeable way. But it's hotter than hell over hear right now, I was sweating in my shorts and sleeveless T shirt, while simply handling the transmitter;  my poor crew must have been really sweating it in their "Northern Approaches Foul Weather Gear" ...     sorry lads

[Jimmy James]

 )i 'd Like to see some pick's of her wnderway---- Such a large model must look very life like...
Freebooter

[Solitary Sailor]

Sorry Jimmy, by the time I remembered my camera the light was fading,     so I didn't get any shots of her yesterday. Still there's always next weekend, weather and work permitting   

Surprisingly, when out on the water, she just looks so very small, unless very, very close.

It was a big relief to see her perform without all the nerve racking drama of a ship in immanent danger of foundering, even on the calmest of waters. She runs well, with neither the motors, nor the ESC's getting hot, or even more than slightly warm for that matter. She is also a very dry ship ... no water at all shipped while out on the lake.

I have to say, I am very pleased with this semi kit from Sirmar, Paul does produce a very nice product. As with any "semi kit", there is much for the modeler to figure out for themselves. But with a little experience, and some common sense, there was nothing difficult about the construction.

 At the outset, I had determined to make this a functioning model, and given the great space inside the hull, there was lots of room for stuff, however, I was surprised at how quickly I managed to fill almost all of it up. Almost all of the length of the ship has removable decking for access to all the bits and pieces, which meant that everything had to be easily removable and just as easy to set back on.  Given the structure of this particular ship, there are large sections along the length of the ship where the deck is just flat, and so  no way to make any type of combing, and so the removable deck sections simply lay on the longitudinal frames, so I am not too sure how she would fare in some blustery weather. Still, as most times, the weather here is hot, sunny and relatively calm, I doubt that will be a problem

My problems with the stability, obviously stemmed from the insufficient ballast which I originally set in the lowest part of the hull, now corrected thankfully, and with out any unsightly external additions ... we live and learn ... even us old guys    Thanks for the prompting guys.

Anyway, pictures soon ... I hope.

[Solitary Sailor]

On the Water

Finally got around to taking a few pictures on the lake. The boot topping is now raised  to 3/8", but of course, I managed to scratch a small section of the new paint getting the model out the door 

Still, all in all, quite successful. She now rides very nicely ... still a little down by the bow, so I still need to move some of the ballast more towards midship .. ie away from the bow.

There was a fair breeze blowing when I first went out, which while enough to push the whole boat sideways, still did not affect the stability unduly. 

[Solitary Sailor]

A few more