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Author Topic: speed camera vans  (Read 8379 times)

Ghost in the shell

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speed camera vans
« on: July 18, 2009, 04:55:14 PM »

A friend of mine thinks he may of got clocked by a speed camera van, (those safety camera partnership vans)

He was going over the limit as he came towards the rear of the van on a motorcycle, but slowed down,  remember on a motorcycle the registration is at the rear of the bike so as he was coming towards the van the camera wouldn't see the licence plate,  but passed the van UNDER the limit.

Are the cameras set up to get you as you go AWAY from the van or TOWARDS the camera in the van??
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Timo2

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 05:02:14 PM »

Both  <*< <*< <*<

timo2

PS 2 cams  one forward  one away   <:(
 
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ixion

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 05:08:54 PM »

Are the cameras set up to get you as you go AWAY from the van or TOWARDS the camera in the van??

They are set up to get you as you travel TOWARDS the van however these days, the vans also have a forward facing camera specifically to get the reg of bikes.
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009, 05:45:14 PM »

Do they send the picture and ticket registered mail?

Tell them you never got the ticket... must be lost in the post.  %)
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bigH

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2009, 05:50:13 PM »

 {:-{   Well Ghost, your friend will just have to sweat it out for the next 14 days,
if he doesn't hear by then he is in the clear, they have to inform you within that
 time or theyre out...  bigH
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ixion

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2009, 07:19:55 PM »

{:-{   Well Ghost, your friend will just have to sweat it out for the next 14 days,
if he doesn't hear by then he is in the clear, they have to inform you within that
 time or theyre out...  bigH

Bit of a myth that!
The legislation says that the NIP must be sent so as to reasonably sure of it getting to the registered keeper within 14 days. This means that if it is delayed in the post the offence can still be pursued. The police do not have to prove that they posted the letter, or that it was received. If you do dispute that it was received it will be for you to show, in court, that this is the case. (I know Ė itís hard to prove that something did not happen, but thatís the law as it stands).
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gribeauval

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2009, 07:22:32 PM »

Moral of this tale is simple;    Don't break the speed limit, it's cheaper in the long run!  ;)
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Perkasaman2

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 08:35:19 PM »

Last year I got caught by a similar static van and got the choice of £60 fine+ 3 penalty points or a voluntary £68 training session + zero points  :o  :}  No prizes for guessing my choice. The course  :police: was 'interesting'. :D
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hopeitfloats

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 11:22:41 PM »

are the vans allowed to hide in the UK. downunder they hide behind trees, signs, anything they can find. not the most popular people around. they are supposed to be a deterent to stop speeding but my theory is they would be more effective in the public view. hiding is purely revenue gathering. rant over. :-)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2009, 11:41:20 PM »

They are not supposed to conceal themselves but sometimes seem to do so. I got caught a few years back in circumstances which were in no way dangerous, early morning, no traffic, heading out of town within a hundred yards of a no limit sign. I have also seen the vans positioned where there is absolutely no danger from people speeding. OK, so you shouldn't speed but I definitely detect an element of "we are out to get you" and raise money as opposed to encouraging people to drive safely. It doesn't engender a spirit of co-operation. neither do those authorities who site five cameras on a two mile stretch of road.

But then I think that the application of speed limits is very inconsistent across the country and some authorities appear to take pleasure in confusing motorists by ramping the limits up and down along a road for no very good apparent reason. If I could be certain that the limits had been set according to strict criteria and for good reasosn i would be more sympathetic but they often seem to be arbitary - different limits applying on the same stretch of road just because you have crossed a County boundary.

Colin
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RickF

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 11:45:32 PM »

The only people ever prosecuted for speeding are those who are breaking the speed limit. We all know what it is, so there's rarely an excuse. I've been caught four times in the last twenty years. I still speed, particularly on dual carriageways and motorways. I know its wrong, so I don't whinge if a guy with some high-tech gizmo catches me doing it - and if he's got the cunning to do it from behind a tree, good luck to him.

Rick
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andygh

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2009, 12:08:33 AM »

Quote
Moral of this tale is simple;    Don't break the speed limit, it's cheaper in the long run

Nope, the moral is don't get caught and if you're speeding in a residential area you deserve it
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2009, 01:32:11 AM »

The only people ever prosecuted for speeding are those who are breaking the speed limit.

....

Rick

That's not true...  ok2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-1122042/Motorist-beats-98mph-speeding-charge--buying-car-proving-manage-speed-85mph.html
....
.
.

I have other issues with that kind of statement, but only because I had a friend falsey accused.
She was "harrased"(investigated) for over two years, spent her inheritance on lawyers, and
when the money ran out, a public defender was assigned to her to sort out the accusations.
The incident ended with a plea bargin over a posted letter she had in her apartment at the time
the federal officials searched it two years earlier.... The accuser.. he did nothing but make the accusation and
go on with his life... sorry, end of rant... but statements like, "Only guilty people should be worried" does not
hold true in my mind...  {:-{

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sinjon

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 06:12:15 AM »

My wife has a radar detector in her Boxster, but is still very conscientious about speed limits.

Sinjon
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derekwarner

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2009, 06:27:26 AM »

Sinjon...technology is universal....& this technology is based upon warfare

1) signal receptors += an outward beam
2) incoming signal + that of parameter = alert

In this day & age there is ZERO point in believing that a vehicle mounted radar detector will alter the chance or elimination of a $$$$$$$$$$$$ fine in the mail  :-)) :police: O0  - Derek
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tigertiger

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2009, 06:52:28 AM »

The radar detectors will allert you if radar is being used in your vicinity. It will warn you of cars ahead being zapped, by a police patrol or a forward facing speed cameral, and give you the chance to slow down. But not effective against radar directed at the rear of vehicles.

The effectiveness of these detectors was recognised by the police in several countries leading to the following strategies by law enforcement.

1/ In the US it was a legal offence to have radar detectors fitted to vehicles.
This was actually defeated by a clever strategy by Snooper. The story goes like this. Police were legally forcing entry into vehicles fitted with Snooper. Sometimes by smashing windows and damaging the interior of the vehicle in removing the item. This level of damage was legal as a crime was being commited.
Snooper then produced a batch of dummy/model snoopers, it was not illegal to have a model in your vehicle, and several police forces were sued for destruction of property for forcibly breaking into a vehicle and removing a model. As a result police stopped breaking into vehicles. Or so the story goes.

2/ Police forces, I think Germany was one of the first, started using radar that measured vehicle speeds when the vehicle was moving away. I.E. backward facing radar that zapped you after you went past.

3/ Police forces started using laser speed detectors. The beam is so narrow the only way to detect it is when you are the one that is zapped.

Radar detector do work. That is why the police hate them. And why after 30 years they are still selling.
Laser detectors are of little value.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2009, 07:00:30 AM »

Derek, radar detectors are illegal in Australia, if you get caught using one, expect a BIG fine.  :police: Apparently the police have radar detector detectors  O0

Peter.
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ZZ56

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2009, 07:55:41 AM »

The moral problem with radar detectors is that they're specifically designed to conceal a crime.  Speeding is a crime.  The limits are clearly posted, there's no guesswork involved.  The only people who use speed radar are the police.  You can't argue that they are for privacy's sake because speeding occurs on public roads and can't be made 'private', unless you invent a cloaking field for your car. 

George Carlin had a good quote that i can't exaclty remember... "Ever notice how everyone driving slower than you is a moron, and everyone going faster than you is a maniac?"
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jimtrellis

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2009, 08:26:55 AM »

The local authority round here has installed those SPEX average speed cameras and the police are allowed to keep the fines towards their budget. The change in motorists' behaviour is astonishing. They still use mobile cameras vans as well but they always put them in the same spots so it's easy to slow down when you're near one and speed up afterwards.
It makes me smile whenever we go down to see my son in Northampton, because in Leicestershire the road signs call these "safety" cameras while as soon as you cross into Northamptonshire they become "eforcement" cameras! At least someone's honest about it.
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Malcolm Reade

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2009, 08:53:35 AM »

The limits are clearly posted, there's no guesswork involved.  

Not really true....

I was famously trapped in June 2006 on a stretch of wide clear road through an industrial estate with wide grass verges both sides, no side roads, schools etc.

The previous day the local authority (Runcorn) had lowered the speed limit from 40mph to 30mph on that particular stretch of road and the revised signs weren't in place.  I drove past the police camera van in the dark believing that I was driving perfectly legally at 36mph.  It's a route that I know well. but use infrequently - there were no notices that the speed limit had been changed.

3 points on my licence and a £60 fine.  The points on my licence for 4 years, and I have only just applied for a new "clean" one - cost £20.  No option of an £80 "training course" and higher insurance premiums for 5 years.  I'm convinced that the only reason that the speed limit was lowered was to catch unsuspecting motorists and raise revenue.

I'm a law abiding bloke, never been in any trouble, I've never seen the inside of a police station or a court room.  I was brought up to respect the police, but now I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could throw them.

Malc
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ZZ56

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2009, 09:19:18 AM »

Did you contest it?  Assuming there was no public notification, I'd say you were in the clear, if the new signs weren't up yet.  Here, they put the signs up in advance of any changes but cover them in black garbage bags.  The extra time and money is worth it to put the police in their place, because they aren't your 'friends' and when they screw up, it's best to see that the screwup is recognized.

Don't get me wrong, speed enforcement is usually a joke, but it is at least within the letter of the law, the majority of the time. 
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sheerline

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2009, 09:23:31 AM »

In most cases, everyone KNOWS when they are breaking the speed limit, they just want to go faster than eveyone else for whatever the reason, be it latenes or impatience or simply just to get in front of the bloke ahead of them. It is mostly deliberate and means they are bending the rules to suit themselves. If they decide to break the rules, they are 'taking a chance' so if they get  legitimately caught doing it..... serves them right!
We have a stretch of road here where people died on a monthly basis, it is a very dangerous cross roads and the speed limit has now been reduced to 50mph. It goes from a single carriageway and runs into the dual carriageway, still posted at 50mph and for good reason since vehicles cross the dualled carriage way quarter of a mile down the road. Every single time I use this bit of road, I witness people stuff their foot to the floor and go for it as soon as they enter the dualled stretch. It is a deliberate act, they know what they are doing and they simply couldn't give a s--t about the rules, the reasons for them or whether it inconveniences or endangers anyone else.
 They are simply selfish law breakers who don't care about you, me or anyone else except themselves because what they do is genuinly dangerous.... and they know it!  If ever there was a suitable place for a speed camera or a regular police speed check, this is it but in the years since this speed reduction system has been in place, I think I have seen an traffic officer twice!
The nasty bend outside my house is clearly marked 30MPH, in 20 years of living here, all I hear is the sound of squealing tyres as people who don't care and have no social concience take this bend at breakneck speed. I watch as they scream round here, grinning from ear to ear, impressing their mates in the passenger seat as the vehicle drifts over the other side of the road on the blind bend.

To hell with them, the fines should be heavier and if I had been a taffic cop, I would suffer from repetitive strain injury through writing out tickets over the years!
That said, we all break the speed limit at some time or another and if I do it and get caught, (I did once) then as far as I'm concerned I deserved it!
 We all have  choices in life.. in this case it's a simple one, it's foot down or foot off and as the great man said " Do ya feel lucky punk... well do ya?" "Go on, make my day!"

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sheerline

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2009, 09:28:58 AM »

Malc, I sympathise with you in your case, what happened to you appears quite wrong and should have been contested with photographic evidence and witness statements in the county court. You would probably have been exempted as the local council appear to have breached their own rules.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2009, 09:39:11 AM »

I have a subscription to the SCDB http://www.scdb.info/ which allows me to download fixed camera locations for most of Europe to my SATNAV which is not illegal. And it only costs 9.95 Euros per year. It is a voluntary organisation so cannot guarantee to have every camera but from my experience, here and on the Continent, it does a pretty good job of coverage.

Each country download is separate (guess who is out in front by a mile?!) but I have found that, although undocumented, it is possible to load in data for as many countries as you want to be active simultaneously which is handy if, for example, you are driving from the UK to Germany.

As Sheerline says, most of us break the speed limit inadvertently from time to time and usually by only a fairly small margin. But I bet that's where the majority of the revenue comes from. We need more traffic police to catch the people who won't get caught by cameras, frequently because they are driving a stolen or unregistered car.

Colin
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oldiron

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Re: speed camera vans
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2009, 09:50:45 AM »

  Speeding is a fact of life and practiced by the vast majority of people on the highways. Part is because of the lack of respect for others, part is because, in some cases, the posted speed limit doesn't reflect the construction of the road, but rather is/was posted for some reason other than safety, but is kept in place for "safety".
 To illustrate, all our 400 series highways (motorways in British vernacular) are 100KPH (62MPH) speed limit. When most were built they had a 70 MPH speed limit. This was in a time when most vehicles weighed over two tons, had drum brakes, over half had manual steering and none had  the safety appliances we now take for granted. In the mid seventies, during the first "oil crisis", the speed limit was lowered to 60 MPH to save fuel. When the "crisis" abated, the speed limit wasn't raised. It was talked about but never done. In the meantime vehicle handling and safety appliances improved the highways became wider and the actual speeds went up. Today, if you were to travel at 100KPH during a free flowing traffic day, you'd be run over like a stone in a fast moving stream. To travel at 110KPH is slow, the norm is 120KPH. Even the police travel at the same speeds. They won't bring you down at those speeds if you are moving with the traffic. In situations such as that, a slow moving vehicle can be just as dangerous as a fast moving one. The relative speeds make the difference. There has been talk of raising the speed limit to 110KPH, however, no politician has made a move.
  I agree, there are many times when a speed limit is a safety item and should be placed to reflect a safety concern on the highways, however there are times when overall traffic patterns are more of a true reflection of what speed limits should be in a certain area.
  Ontario tried camera vans in the eighties. It was not liked. The vans were unmarked and parked on the side of the road and not necessarily in a place that posed a safety problem. When a vehicle's picture was taken the registered owner of the vehicle was given the ticket even though they may not have been the person driving the vehicle at the time. The vans were seen strictly as a money maker not as a speed deterrent since you didn't know if you'd been caught until you received a bill in the mail some time later. It was a greater detterent to be stopped by the police at the time of the offense. Receiving a bill later was looked at as the cost of doing business. The program was dropped within a year of much political wrangling. To date it hasn't been reintroduced.
  Something that was tried with success, at about the same time, was placing unmanned marked police cruisers at strategic points on typically fast traffic days. They planted one near my place. It a had a dramatic effect on the speed of traffic.
  Speeding is a here to stay for a number of reasons, and not all disrespect. Its something we have to live with.

John

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