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[Solitary Sailor]

Hey Martin

If you come across this thread, I think the website has a bulb burnt out. The icon below my name, which lights up green when a commenter is online - doesn't, and the status "offline" is always set whether I'm here or not. I feel positively neglected 

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Greg

Here's another option to think upon ... Caldercraft's 'Joffre'  at about 31" in length and just over 7 1/2" beam. The 'Puffin'  is 3 1/2" long, and the Maccsteam boiler being a 3.5 is 7 1/2" long, a tight fit, but would it be just a little too heavy for a hull of this displacement?

Has anybody built this kit, and if so, what is the access to the inside engine compartment like?

As an added advantage, at 1/48 scale, she is the perfect companion to push my 'V & W' around on the lake.

[bogstandard]

I personally think the Joffre is just a little too tight for that plant.

You have to remember, it is the little bits that take up the room with a steam plant. Pipework, little extras for the the burner system, coupling etc, etc. You could easily add at least another 2" to 3" on the OAL. The 3.5" diameter for the boiler is most probably the boiler tube diameter, the sticky up and down bits, safety valve, steam dome and bedplate will most probably add another couple of inches at least. So overall, the engine plant isn't as compact as you think.

So think along the lines of something larger than Joffre.

Bogs

[gondolier88]

Hi Solitary,

Just as Bogs says Joffre would be very tight- something with a 9/10" beam would be ok.

Have a look at some of these, may be of interest to you;

http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/index.html

Greg

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Bogs & Greg

Thank you both for the input. I kind of thought that Joffre might be a bit tight ... hence the question 

Greg, I have been looking at Mobile Marine Models, and there are some potential contenders, unfortunately for me, the two I like most are both twin screw designs ...

Ho hum ...some more thinking to do me thinks

Thanks again 

[Solitary Sailor]

OK.  Narrowing my search now. I am settling more one one of two models, either ...

Mountfleets  'Empire Tug'
at 1/32 scale  41.5"length by 9.5" beam  with a rated displacement of 28 lbs

                                              OR

Mobile Marine's  "Lady Jan'  also an Empire Tug
at scale not given  40" length by 11" beam  no displacement shown, but would assume given those dimensions that it would be a little more than Mountfleet's model

Both models are pretty close to the same price when finished, with Mountfleet being the slightly more expensive of the two

The advantage of Mobile Marine's Lady Jan, is that it can be purchased in sections, ie, hull, plans, decking, prop shaft and rudder assembly first. Then when the basic hull and engine room have been completed and tested, go for the fittings pack ... my bank account will like that!

Any comments from anyone who has built either of these two are most welcome.
 

[barriew]

As far as I know, all MMMs tugs are 1/32nd scale. I have built one of theirs, Rosegarth. Only issue is if using the Template pack, cut in cardboard first to ensure correct fit.

The other advantage with this is that you may be able to source some of the fittings locally to save paying carriage on lots of white metal

Barrie

[YesteryearToys]

This is the perfect engine for the Krick series Victoria or Borkum. The original Cheddar catalog also has listing of boat kits suitable for the Puffin Vertical engine including the Duncan from Westbourne. Another good reference book for steam boats is Scale Model Steamboats by Phillip Vaughan Williams.

[knoby]

Hi solitary,
 It just so happens i own both a mountfleet ivy & a mmm lady Jan. the Jan is one of the first hulls Brian produced & its in an unfinished state (in fact almost an unstarted state). I originally intended to put the steam plant I'm now fitting in the ivy in it, but a change of swmbo & house put a stop to my plans several years ago. I didn't build the ivy either, i bought her already made but have modified her a little.

Of the 2 models i prefer the ivy to the Jan, i personally feel the hull  moulding & the fittings are of a better quality. The Jan hull has huge rivets, large plate lines & the rubbing strake was poorly moulded & it was this that put me off finishing the model. However, as i said, this is an old hull & it may well have improved in later ones. The mountfleet fitting are very well made & fg mouldings seem high quality.From memory the ivy has a displacement of around 28 lbs & the Jan was a couple of pounds lighter.
 
There are a few 'Jan' builds on here, but I've not seen an 'Ivy' Build. Tugnut built my ivy, it may be worth a pm to him for better details. I look forward to hearing your final choice. dint hesitate to ask if i can be of further assistance.

cheers Glenn

[Solitary Sailor]

Well, it looks like I'm finally going to get some of my machine tools back in action, my little 'Emco Unimat 3' setup. I have almost all of the attachments for it, which I have lugged around in my travels over the years. The original motor for it was no good, and besides, it was 240 volts, no good for over here in South Florida. After looking for some time, I finally got hold of a 110 volt motor for it off of ebay ... should arrive by the end of the week. Probably paid more than I should have for it, but the rest of the setup was gathering dust, and about as much use as the proverbial t**s on a bull. So now I'm back in the game.

This machine does have its limitations, but for tinkering around, it's pretty complete. The milling/drilling column/headstock isn't up to the job for sure. I may look to getting a small milling machine. I have looked at the 'Proxxon' milling machine, does anybody have any experience of one, if so, what's your opinion? Any other suggestions?

I am looking for a steam engine to put in 'Mountfleets' St Nectan, most of the little twin oscillators are a bit too small, and I want something with a bit of ummph.... again, any suggestions; it is of course, a single screw. The dimensions of the boat are 68" long, by 10.5" beam, with a displacement of 45 Lbs, so whatever it's going to be, needs to be quite substantial. I haven't ruled out the Triple yet, but I feel it may be just too large, I shall have to wait and see when the boat arrives. I should be placing the order in the next 3 weeks or so; of course, every time I say that, something comes along to put the time frame back several weeks  .  I was thinking maybe the Stuart D10. I think the Triple Expansion may be a little bit too large. I did consider the Stuart twin launch engine, but she would be extremely thirsty on steam and so I would need a big boiler, so that's a no go really. Have been in touch with John Hemmens about a possible steam engine, but there is nothing in his catalogue to suit

The steam tug project is not dead, just second on the list ... as DickyD says ... "so many ships, so little time".
Then  there is John Hemmens 'pilot cutter', or Marten Howes and Baylis 'Vigilant', but those are in the realms of dreaming at the moment. Will have to get some good contracts to be able to afford that fantasy... must ... MUST work harder.

[bogstandard]

You can't go far wrong with a big hearted oscillator in an enclosed setup. It is nice to have a complicated engine in a boat, but it could mean you spend half the time playing about with it getting it to run correctly. If it is in an open launch, it should have fairly easy access, but in the depths of an enclosed superstructure it could be a real P I T A.

Seeing you are about to turn your hand to machining again, a 5/8" bore by 1" stroke twin should easily be within your realms. The long stroke would give you more than enough power. The small 10mm x 20mm stroke oscillators I occasionally make have no problems replacing something like a Cheddar Gemini engine in a 50"+ boat, as well proven by a member on here.

If you have the room and finances, go for a proper mill, something like the Seig X2 or one of it's clones. What will do a lot will do a little, but not the other way around. The Proxxon might be a nice little mill, but very limited in what it can handle, and how accurate it can make things.

Bogs

[gondolier88]

Hi Solitary,

First off I have to apologise- Gondola wasn't sailing on friday due to high water and gale force gusts- i'll be working the weekend of Sep 13th/14th so will get pics some for you then.

Have a look at some of the little engines from Reeves 2000- borderer I think might be the right size for you-
https://vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/shop_home.asp

Greg

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Bogs

I take your point about the milling machine, however, my main problem is space, so a little bit of searching and thought are in order.

As to a suitable oscillator ... I was looking at this  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16722.0. A contender ... maybe

Anyway, thanks for the input, it's always good to have experience on hand to turn to.

SS

[Solitary Sailor]

Ding, Ding.      Did a light go off in my confused mind over your comment in the second paragraph Bogs 
Were you suggesting I build my own oscillator ... not a bad idea. OK, where to get plans?

Also, you passed no comment upon the Stuart D10 ... any reason, or just a general aversion?

SS

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Greg

No problem re. the photos.

Yea, I have considered a Reeves; though their on-line catalogue could use a little help in the marketing department, not necessarily glossey 10 x 8s, but something that shows a little more detail of just what it is that you are about to plonk your money down on; or put another way, their marine steam engines page is obviously an after thought. Which ever, it is not a matter of grave urgency, as initially the St Nectan will be electric powered, as I already have an MFA Torpedo 850. As mentioned before, I am aiming for a system whereby I can substitute either power plant ... may not quite work out that easily, as the mind is always five steps ahead of the hands, and all grandiose plans have a habit of crashing to the ground    ... but...

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Bogs, Greg

Came across this ...http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47158.  Whadaya think?
Price is right for sure. A bit heavy, but that's no bad thing for a machine tool. Now, just how can I make it blend in with the furniture 

SS

[Solitary Sailor]

Of course, this one is a bit more versatile http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991

Hmmm ... choices, choices

SS

[Circlip]

As the two manufacturers mentioned are not Boggy's favourite brand of doughnuts (Saving the Steam Venting John) You might have a look at the M/E range of plans for an engine SS. A couple of oscillators that Basil Hartley designed and were described in Model Boats a few years ago may also fit the bill. Having said that, Borderer and it's smaller brother/sister Marcher can be built without castings.

   On the Emco front, due to the original motor being somewhat lacking in the longevity stakes, another route that a lot of your fellow countrymen have gone down is to use a redundant exercise machine/ rolling road motor complete with speed control.

   Regards  Ian.


   http://www.myhobbystore.com/default.aspx?referrer=MBshopping         July 1983 A Double Oscillator

[Solitary Sailor]

Thanks Ian

I'll look into those

SS

[bogstandard]

I was thinking of showing you the second harbor fright one, but didn't know how much cash and room you had available. It is a good steady machine and can be upgraded very easily. It must be the most popular small mill in the world, as it is very well supported by user groups and third party suppliers.

I have nothing against the engines you mentioned, but I am personally a great believer in keeping things simple.

As I was saying, in an enclosed hull a good simple oscillator or even a piston valve engine is more than adequate. One servo controls all, and usually have no problems restarting and reversing.

If you wanted to show off a well built complicated engine, then an open launch would be the place to do it.

Complicated and usually temperamental engines need to have good access, and down in the bowels of an enclosed model is not the place for them.

There are no problems getting plans for a basic oscillator and just stretching it a bit to the size you require.

Bogs

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Bogs

The cash factor can be overcome ... where there's a will, there's a way.It's not as if I have to buy it tomorrow. The size factor ... well they are pretty much the same ... so it's the same problem, how do I hide it amongst the furniture ... suppose I could redecorate, and go for the 'Industrial Elegance' look. (Remember, I don't have a workshop, just a corner of what used to be the dinning room, gave up on trying to get the boys to come to the diner table, and anyway they only used to pile crap on top of the table).  Not sure I'd get away with it though, even without one SWMBO, don't think it will fly, my sons already think there are a few too many boats around the place. Then of course there is the one other major difference, weight, the second one weighs an extra 47 lbs ... oh my poor back. But all things considered, I think it will be the second one.

[bogstandard]

You are quite right, space does have to come into the equation, and other people in the abode as well. Sparkly carpets throughout the house and chewing on bits of metal can upset a few people. But things can have a workaround.

I knew a chap once that had a full photographic darkroom set up in a fairly small free standing wardrobe in the bedroom. There wasn't room to get a cat in there, never mind swinging it about, but it did the job admirably, for what he wanted to do.

Shower curtains can hide a multitude of sins and keep everything contained and hidden from view. In fact, I use roller blinds attached to the ceiling. Pull them down to a low level, and it keeps flying chips from going everywhere. I still have a few more to fit, as I am still finding out which way the swarf is being thrown.

Bogs

[Solitary Sailor]

Ha! Sparkly carpets you say, our four legged friend, since departed took care of that problem, and now we have a new house guest to continue on with the tradition. Still does have its advantages, this one is a natural at fetching things, especially in the water; she makes a great rescue service for stranded / broken down models in the lake ... shame about the teeth marks in the railings and decks though. 

[Bee]

SS You seem a little too hung up on getting a mill. You don't need one to build a steam engine. Back in the ?sixties? Model engineer had a series on building the Stuart 10V with nothing more complex than a hand drill. So with a lathe you are well ahead already.

[Solitary Sailor]

Hi Bee

Not hung up on the idea, just would be nice to have, especially given the limitations of the Emco Unimat, with its vertical column. Whichever, it would be in the future, that's for sure; all available funds for the near future are earmarked for the model boat kit.

Any way, of far more importance for now ... does anyone know of a good tools supplier  (on the web), for a set of BA taps and dies, 'cause I seem to have misplaced mine  I think it will have to be in Blighty, because the mention of British Association or Model Engineer, just brings up a blank stare amongst  American sales staff in the hardware stores. 

Actually, I think 'Coles'  has some, but sold individually, no sets.