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Author Topic: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)  (Read 16344 times)

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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2006, 09:59:43 AM »

Can you tell me how to unscrew the deck?
Jan, yes.? In addition to the screws that are obvious there are screws hidden under each of the bollards (see diagram).? The ones with red arrows were glued in place on mine and had to be prized off.? The ones with blue arrows are held in place by screws. It's worth labelling the side ones so you know which one goes where. When everything is unscrewed you need to side a knife in just under the lip and gently prize the deck off.? It will seem stiff.? The? deck section extends into the hull about 10mm and there is a rubber ring seal that is easy to damage (particularly when you are re-assembling).
Cheers,
PeterT

Many thanks  :)

The manouverability backwards is just anoying.  Now i can fit two esc  ;D
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Pointy

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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2006, 11:11:04 AM »

Thanks Peter T, really like the little details you added to your Lobmaster! I have the Majestic and what you said about the bulwarks explains a mystery to me. One one occasion I recovered my boat and found a lot of water sloshing around inside the bouyancy tanks but not the interior?! Has to drill a little hole in a tank to drain it- never had the problen since- suppose water must have got into it by going over the deck and not in the hull somehow?
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2006, 05:08:57 PM »

Here is a short video from today, small tug hunted by Orkney Express? ;)

Hunted
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2006, 10:05:31 AM »

Thanks Peter T, really like the little details you added to your Lobmaster! I have the Majestic and what you said about the bulwarks explains a mystery to me. One one occasion I recovered my boat and found a lot of water sloshing around inside the bouyancy tanks but not the interior?! Has to drill a little hole in a tank to drain it- never had the problen since- suppose water must have got into it by going over the deck and not in the hull somehow?

Pointy, Thanks for the encouragement.  Made from scratch lobster pots aren't quite the same as a made from scratch QM2 (which is the sort of thing other  members at the club I go to do) but you have to start somewhere!

I'm not sure I've solved your problem water ingress  problem though.  Any water on deck should either stay there, or find its way to the inside, not into the bouyancy.  The buoyancy is pierced by the screws that hold the electronics tray in place and at the points where the deck is fastened down, Maybe you have a leak there?  Or is there a hole in the bulwarks somewhere?
Peter T
p.s. we ought to make this a "Thunder Tiger Fishing Boats" thread.
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Peter T

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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2006, 10:16:24 AM »

Here is a short video from today, small tug hunted by Orkney Express  ;)

Hunted

Jan, liked the movie!  I took one of mine but the file is too big for the forum.  Having seen what you did, I'll use the free web-space I get with my broadband connection to serve the file.  It may take a day or two since I've never used that space before.
Cheers,
Peter T
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2006, 12:57:27 PM »

Here is a video from last year. Btw no water inside the hull yesterday. Next thing to do is to use two esc.

A video from your boat would be nice? :)

Passing by

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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2006, 01:39:29 PM »

Here is a video from last year. Btw no water inside the hull yesterday. Next thing to do is to use two esc.

A video from your boat would be nice  :)

Passing by



Hi Jan, I really recognize the sound of that gearbox in the movies!  Hopefully I've found out how to do it over lunchtime so you might get to see mine doing its party trick! Round and round cheers,
Peter T
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2006, 01:49:12 PM »

Here is a video from last year. Btw no water inside the hull yesterday. Next thing to do is to use two esc.

A video from your boat would be nice? :)

Passing by



Hi Jan, I really recognize the sound of that gearbox in the movies!? Hopefully I've found out how to do it over lunchtime so you might get to see mine doing its party trick! Round and round cheers,
Peter T

That looks amazing, now i must HAVE two esc  :D
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2006, 04:21:16 PM »

That looks amazing, now i must HAVE two esc :D
Hi Jan,
You might like to see the inside of my Wyeforce nowadays.  The first pic is the general layout and you can see the motor battery (3300 mAh). My wiring is not neat! When I went to 2 ESCs I first used an ACTionKit mixer which allowed me to stay with 2 channels and worked really, really well until it experienced too much of the inside of a leaking tug in rough weather on the River Itchen which is salt water where I live. (I don't usually use these but...  :'().  So now my layout is as shown in the second picture. ..

(A) is the aerial which I've routed through the hatch and up through the wheelhouse and main mast so I don't have the whip antenna on the side (which Wyeforce does not have!).  The (up to 4 channel) receiver is under the hatch  (B) which I figured was the dryest place. I'm using 2 mtroniks Viper 15 ESCs (which they claim are waterproof} situated under the junction strip (C).  They are driving two 280 motors which are rated at 1.5 to 3v but that was too slow so I'm giving them 7.2V (got away with it so far!) - the original motors didn't like salt water and died horribly.  (D) is the 2100mAh  battery pack and fuse for the electronics.  (E) is the bilge pump, with electronics (F) and outlet (G).  The electical connectors under (G) are the sensor for the water level.  The tube comes as high as possible under the deck before going down to the pump to prevent back flooding.

I've put some (better) photos  of her on the Itchen at photobox, go to the last album and the 2nd page!
Cheers,
Peter T



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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2006, 04:57:00 PM »

I cant believe that you realy driving her on the River Itchen! Hope she never hits her big sister  ;)

Nice pictures, helps a lot.
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2006, 05:56:20 PM »

Hi. yes I'm on the Itchen. Here is a  photo  taken a few minutes ago showing my jetty  ( the tide is just coming in). In summer I'm brave because I canswim after the models . At this time of the year I make sure that the wind is blowing towards me!
Itchen Marine are based a couple of miles, and two bends of the river, downstream of me.
Cheers, Peter T


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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2006, 07:03:55 PM »

My daughter managed it to remove the deck. Now i need two esc and some wire. Thinking about to remove the gearbox and replace it with two directdrives... the noise is driving me crazy  ;)     
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ron h

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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2006, 11:02:29 PM »

My daughter managed it to remove the deck. Now i need two esc and some wire. Thinking about to remove the gearbox and replace it with two directdrives... the noise is driving me crazy? ;)? ? ?



Thats the biggest problem with gear boxes, they never get quieter, ::) ::) ron h
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2006, 07:25:39 AM »

My daughter managed it to remove the deck. Now i need two esc and some wire. Thinking about to remove the gearbox and replace it with two directdrives... the noise is driving me crazy ;)
Removing the gearbox also means that, if you have to replace the motors, you don't need ones that fit exaactly and also do not get hot when enclosed in plastic!
Peter T
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2006, 09:54:55 AM »

I decided to let the gearbox untouched this time and to get two esc only. I make a picture today from the wiring around the motors, i have a few questions...? ???

Under 1: not glued, they where pressed in. But now they need to be glued back  8)
Under 2: we forgot the screw under the antenna, took us 15 minutes to find out  ::)

 
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2006, 10:22:18 AM »

I decided to let the gearbox untouched this time and to get two esc only. I make a picture today from the wiring around the motors, i have a few questions...  ???

Under 1: not glued, they where pressed in. But now they need to be glued back 8)
Under 2: we forgot the screw under the antenna, took us 15 minutes to find out ::)
Jan, re. (1) I glued them down a little to one side so the screws are still accessible.  re. (2), sorry, since I no longer use that arrangement for the aerial that screw is obvious on my model!
Cheers,
Peter
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2006, 04:34:16 PM »

I think we need to cut all under 1 and under 3 we need a new wire.
But whats that under 2???
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2006, 08:52:40 AM »

I think we need to cut all under 1 and under 3 we need a new wire.
But whats that under 2???
Hi Jan, I assumed that they were some sort of inductances, either to make the motors run smoother or as part of the interference suppression.  I didn't have two more so I left them out and didn't notice any difference!  I did use the anti-interference capacitors.
Cheers, Peter T.
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2006, 09:47:30 PM »

Hi all,

Newbie to the forum, glad I found it, and especially this post. I've had a Southie for a year - no problems with leaking, though I do give both ends of the propshafts a squirt of grease before each sail.

I haven't dissassembled her yet as the warranty has only just run out. I'd like to go to twin ESC's as time and funds permit, but in the meantime I'd like to give her some working lights. I've got the LED's, built and tested the PCB to run the all at the correct brightness.

Thing is, how to take the superstructure apart without damaging it. I want to run thin wires up through the wheehouse and up the back of the mast, and also up into the navigation lights. Deck lights are no problem.

Can I ask for some advice on this please.

Has anyone figured out how to make her steer when going astern. I know twin ESC's would do the job and I'm familiar with manouevering a full size twin screw tug (Dad was a tug skipper and let me 'play'!!) But how about changing rudders or giving them more throw. Would that help.

Last thing... I built a barge for her - solid mahogany and 8kgs. Looks great but rocks and rolls like a mad things. Any ideas for making it more stable?

I've attached a couple of pix to show what I mean.

very many thanks

Andy G


Roll to port...

and starboard..

occasionally behaves .. sort of!

Southie and barge [note the additional anchor, like Wyeforce.

Southie at full speed - no leaks!
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2006, 07:54:50 AM »

Hi all,

Newbie to the forum, glad I found it, and especially this post. I've had a Southie for a year - no problems with leaking, though I do give both ends of the propshafts a squirt of grease before each sail.

I haven't dissassembled her yet as the warranty has only just run out. I'd like to go to twin ESC's as time and funds permit, but in the meantime I'd like to give her some working lights. I've got the LED's, built and tested the PCB to run the all at the correct brightness.

Thing is, how to take the superstructure apart without damaging it. I want to run thin wires up through the wheehouse and up the back of the mast, and also up into the navigation lights. Deck lights are no problem.
Hi Andy G,
Not sure what you mean by taking the superstructure apart?  On mine the wheelhouse roof just lifts off and you can get to the rest of the superstructure when its unclipped from the hull.  I drilled a small hole in one corner of the wheelhouse floor in order to lead the receiver antenna up through the wheelhouse. it then goes through part of the original antenna tube which I've fastened to the back of the mast.  You could do something similar for the lighting.  It actually looks as if the inside of the wheelhouse roof was designed for a lighting wire.

I have trouble steering her going astern even with two ESCs (ok partly lack of skill!).  Once she starts to turn it needs quick remedial action to stop her!  My single screw lobmaster fishing boat is actually easier to handle!
Cheers,
Peter T
p.s. when I first bought her I gave the rudders more throw by extending the servo arm - it helped a bit.
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2006, 03:11:32 PM »

Hi all,

Newbie to the forum, glad I found it, and especially this post. I've had a Southie for a year - no problems with leaking, though I do give both ends of the propshafts a squirt of grease before each sail.

I haven't dissassembled her yet as the warranty has only just run out. I'd like to go to twin ESC's as time and funds permit, but in the meantime I'd like to give her some working lights. I've got the LED's, built and tested the PCB to run the all at the correct brightness.

Thing is, how to take the superstructure apart without damaging it. I want to run thin wires up through the wheehouse and up the back of the mast, and also up into the navigation lights. Deck lights are no problem.

Can I ask for some advice on this please.

Has anyone figured out how to make her steer when going astern. I know twin ESC's would do the job and I'm familiar with manouevering a full size twin screw tug (Dad was a tug skipper and let me 'play'!!) But how about changing rudders or giving them more throw. Would that help.

Last thing... I built a barge for her - solid mahogany and 8kgs. Looks great but rocks and rolls like a mad things. Any ideas for making it more stable?

I've attached a couple of pix to show what I mean.

very many thanks

Andy G
 

You can try to make bigger rudders or to make a so called Becker-Rudder.



http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/My_models/31%20Dickie_4.htm

Maybe the barge has to much weight to the top, try to place the main ballast as low as possible in the hull.
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2006, 04:45:31 PM »

Andy,
Going in reverse is almost a lost cause.  The only 'sure' way I know of is to use 'flanking' rudders, those are rudders in front of the props, which are able to direct water flow.  Diferential motor control works but definitely takes some getting used to (flanking rudders do to for that matter).  Just like a fan, theres always more air/water control on the output side rather than the input side, that make sense?  Then again, steerable kort nozzles work fine (great, now how do I do that? - lol).
 - 'Doc

PS - All of those options work better in salt water rather than fresh water.  Why?  Cuz the large dose of salt required is pre-mixed...
(time for my meds)
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Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2006, 08:58:52 PM »

Another day at the lake, here is my Southie together with Bankert ...

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Re: Graupner Southampton prop control
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2006, 10:25:06 AM »

Peter

You've obviously done the job. That's next up for mine. Can you post a bit of information / pix on how you did it please.

I extended the rudders on mine - made a heck of a difference even without independent motor control. Spent around 4 hours on the water learning how to handle the new setup. A lot of that spent going astern - not a drop of water inside! I spray a bit of grease on all the points where water could get in before each sail, so maybe that's it.

Thanks
Andy

PS. Next time, I'll read ALL the pages in the thread again before posting - as most of the info is already here, but any extra will help!
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Re: Graupner Southampton prop control
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2006, 01:18:40 PM »

Peter

You've obviously done the job. That's next up for mine. Can you post a bit of information / pix on how you did it please.


Hi Andy,
Instructions for taking the model apart are lower down the thread. 
Then...

So far I've tried two methods of prop control.  First I used an ActionKit P40C mixer and two ActionKit Condor 10/2 Autoset P79 speed controllers.  This allowed me to use the two channel Tx/Rx which comes with the tug.  Note though that I powered the electronics separately using a 4 cell NiMH pack since I was no longer using the original ESC which has a BEC built in.  The setup worked very well and was easy to use.  The only problem was that the ActionKit gear is in no way waterproof and the mixer soon gave in due to the salty wet environment inside my particular tug! When I replaced it I sprayed all the electronics with PCB laquer.  However, after not long I started to get erratic action which I later discovered was due to one of the ESCs acting up (whether this was due to my spraying them I don't know).

So now...  I bought a 4 chan Tx and a Futaba R114F 4-chan Rx.  The latter is really small and is velcro'd under the forward hatch - about the driest spot!  I'm using 2 Mtroniks Viper Marine 15 ESCs; again these are small and claim to be waterproof.  They are a neat looking design and seem to consist mainly of a large heat sink.  So  now I have a system more likely to survive my outings on the River Itchen.  However it is harder to use than the mixer system and means I'm now on 40MHz FM and can't use my collection of 27MHz crystals.  How much has this tug cost me? don't ask.  Good fun tho.

I will  send another message with a labelled photo of the present inside of my model when I've labelled it up.   Photos of it at play on the Itchen are at ..
http://www.photobox.co.uk/shared/browse.html?c_album=2600171&page=2
Cheers,
Peter
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