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[CalicoJack]

You have a look around model boat fairs these days and all you see are groups of old men huddled around stalls asking the usual questions "what motor", "what battery", followed by the stall man reaching down to get a 1950's motor and a 5 year old battery.

If you compare these shows to the NEC model show which features planes, cars, hovercrafts and all sorts of other models as well as boats you can easily see that the model boating world is behind times in regard to electrics and design.

Why are we so un-technical and un-progressed?

???

[DickyD]

Lack of ponds :( :(
When I was a kid we all had boats of some sort and there were plenty of places to sail them near by.
These days in this neck of the woods there are no boating lakes in striking distance, you have a 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour drive to the nearest one and there is only one other.
This is why kids are going for cars trains and planes. Not to much hassle involved using them.
Richard

[Martin (Admin)]

I think I'll put my crash helmet on ( this waste bin will do ) and wait for the replies! 

Martin

[barriew]

You have a look around model boat fairs these days and all you see are groups of old men huddled around stalls asking the usual questions "what motor", "what battery", followed by the stall man reaching down to get a 1950's motor and a 5 year old battery.

Not sure John and James of Model Power would agree re-batteries. I am pretty sure that they take the same stock to all model shows. Maybe we aren't into LiPo batteries but otherwise the battery technology we use today is far removed from the '50s. then therewere no NiCd or NiMh or Gel Cells - only zinc carbon "dry" batteries, or wet lead acid.
Similarly with electric motors. In the 50's Taycol and Ever Ready Mighty Midgets were the motors available. Most model boats in that time were diesel or glowplug powered as batteries and electric motors just weren't up to it!

That's not to say its not an old mans hobby

Barrie

[Malc Reade]

This is one of my pet subjects:

Model boating in the UK is populated mainly by retired gentlemen, the majority of whom are on fixed incomes (State pensions).  These fixed incomes have taken a battering since they were de-linked from inflation during the Thatcher era and have been further battered by recent huge hikes in utility bills. Ad infinitum.

Model boaters, in the main, simply cannot afford to invest serious money in their hobby, and they have my sincere commiserations for that problem.

Their lack of spending power has a domino effect on the takings of the model trade, and contrary to what most modellers believe, the trade is currently taking a financial battering as well.  This is evidenced by the cancellation of many shows during 2007.  This contributes to reduced availability of funds to buy stock and develop new products - the whole sorry scene is a downward spiral.

We at Reade Models travel to the Modelbau show at Dortmund in the spring, looking for new lines and ideas.  Germany is, and has been, in a much worse state than the UK economically for many years, but the model industry there is booming.  Why?

The answer is mainly because the Germans are prepared to spend money on their hobby, and model boaters in Germany are probaby, on average about 25 years younger than their UK equivalents - and they have some disposable income.

You see a similar situation in this country with model aircraft and railways - both disciplines are populated by much younger people and are probably each about 10 times the size of the model boat industry.

The lack of junior members in clubs is a huge problem here in the UK, and I believe that youngsters are not receiving the encouragement that they need?  I repeat an earlier post when I discussed offering prizes for best junior model at various shows, only to be told that there are no juniors...

Maybe being a GOG means representing a dying breed?

Regards, Malc

[Bridkid]

Yes I would agree........in part....................

My local club is bursting at the seams but it is the older end of the age group that seem to want to get into boats. Some of our newer members have been into flying but as one new member said to me 'old age, poor eyesight and arthritis mean I have to do something more sedate these days'. Maybe that has something to do with it as I know that I suffer from 2 of the former problems.
However, when it comes to fast electrics I am very much a senior citizen as most of the guys I race against are 30 somethings with plenty of disposable income. I can't keep up with all the new cells that keep appearing on the market and fancy brushless motors as well as paying an arm and a leg for the latest German hardware and running gear. Maybe the F/E guys are in the same vein as the car lads and flyers, it does attract those people who are looking for more of an adrenaline rush than a tug can provide! Having said that, necessity is the mother of invention and so I spend time designing and building my own racing hulls as it's far cheaper (and more satisfying|) than paying out for commercially produced hulls.

Ah well, back to the drawing board.
Cheers,
Ian.
 

[Tug-Kenny RIP]

I think you have hit the nail on the head, Ian. Yes they are fiddly, and yes the 'extra' bits are pricey. A lifetime of work teaches us the 'way to do things', so when faced with problems of construction, we use this knowledge to get around the problem instead of splashing out on 'new'. Having said that, I'm pleased my speed controller is not made with 'Valves & coils !!    '

Cheers...Ken

[J.beazley]

and you wonder why the younger population arent interested in model boats Pointy.

Im 23 and enjoy model boating but when the OLDER generation take a blind eye to younger people interested in the hobby, it kinda makes you wonder why we bother really.

mmmmmm very contravercial issue here me thinks.

Jay

[Malc Reade]

Another five penny worth...

Most of our time at shows is spent listening to the tales of ills and ailments that regularly befall our more senior customers.  We do this with good grace, happy to spend some time with these good folks - even if they do live in sheds and smell at lot.  Some of them are lonely, having lost wives and other family often in heart-rendingly tragic circumstances.  All they want is for someone to listen to them for a while, and show them a little respect.

A lot of these guys fought the 1939-45 war on our behalf - and gave us the freedom to call them a load of old farts - and be able to get away with it.  A lot of these great men - for that is what they really are, have become dear friends to us, and we value them greatly.

This weekend, remember what they did for us, buy a poppy and keep your peace quietly for two minutes at 11am on Sunday.

Malc



 

[perkasa]

I started building radio control model boats about three years ago at the tender age of 58. Why did I leave it so long to start. Simply because I did not have the time or the money. I also put my family, home & job  first. We have all been there although some will not admit it.

When I did start it soon became obvious that you cant just build these things on the kitchen table like an old Airfix kit. You need space and most importantly the tools for the job.You also need sound advice from people that have been building boats. A good club is also an advantage. This was another problem as the nearest was an hours drive away in my case.

We must encourage as many people as we can. Model Boat Mayhem is a very good site for beginners to look at. 

- Moderated -

Lets keep the Boating subjects just to the point so as to help with sound advice which is what I thought the forum was supossed to be about.

PB


 does not help as people

[White Ensign]

O.K.- back to the basic post. I`ll second malcolms post insofar, as in Germany the average age seems to be a bit under our English counterparts. In example: My former club was 58 in average age- and me, age 43 was one of the youngsters. I`d left it and we had found a new club, now 15 people with an average age of 33! The reason was obvious:
The "youngsters" with their different part of interest in modelboating (fast electrics) had been ignored by the rotten old lot we have had before. It had led so far, that chrystals had been captured just to "Keep of that bl***y race-goats". Not very helpfull, to get some young blood into that hobby. I`d never had been interested in fast electrics, but I`d taken them as an assett for myself.
Though, the reason why it had become an "old mans hobby" is not the change of technology and why some of the oldies keep their proofed technics, it is much more the ignorance for the challenge of new technologies!
In Germany we have the same problems as you have in the UK: The very youngsters with an age until 114/15 are more interested in the game-consoles and later are more interested in girls. Not very surprising- we all had been in that certain age/situation.
Fact is, that with an economy worst than the one in the UK we don`t have more money to spend for the hobby, but it`s in average about 25% cheaper as in the UK. I`ll know that from experience.

Though- for saying it is an old mans hobby we need to find out why we cant get the young blokes into modelboating.
I think it is obvious: It depends on our own behaviour, every time we are at the pond. With any rude or unkind manners you will disappoint the youngsters. Who wants to "play" with an moaning old guy?
Though we had made a simple boat, not too much details which might be distroyed- but always ready to run. If children come along on their walks with their parents we always offer them to have a play. It avoyds the "Mister- how fast does it goes?" and gives them a first-hand impression what it takes to control a "slow" boat. By the way: Two of them had meanwhile joined the club (their fathers as well).

Though- it`s just on ourselves. Have a try! What do you have to loose? You just can win some new members!

Jörg

[Glyn Cleaver]

You are dead right my friend the hobby is  mainly old men.  But my local club at Barry has children from about 10 yrs old and up. They are encouraged to come down on Sunday's as the club secretary has 6 little tugs 1/2 a metre ish. These are given out to the lads that don't have, or can't afford to have there own model.I am sure a lot more along these lines can be done to attract youngsters into our great hobby.
Cheers Glyn

[chromedome]

Are model boats becoming an old mans hobby?...I think it always was!

    chromedome

[Pointy]

The ironic thing is this:

If all of the people on this thread or even the whole forum were together at a lakeside or a show we would be so busy admiring each others work, asking questions, swopping stories and generaly enjoying each others company and boats that to say something negative would not even occur to us! The amount of skill and talent on this site, both young and old is amazing and it was an inspiration to me to get on and build a boat and get involved in the hobby. I hate to read stuff like this I suppose thats why I write the odd "fun" post sometimes to lighten things up but now I wonder how many people I annoyed?! Sorry guys sure wasn't my intention. :-\

[chingdevil]

I think that model boating has always been, for want of a better phrase "done by older people". I am 54 and I did not start model boating until a couple of years ago, mainly because I wanted to try something else.
I think a lot of younger people are not drawn into it because it is all too easy to get a RTR car, plane and just go out and do it, it takes no thought. As for the cost, my other hobby is genealogy I would not like to hazzard a guess how much that has cost me and still costs me.
I do not belong to a club yet but do any clubs run a come and have a go weekend, most RC comes with a trainer mode let people try and see if they like it then the club would be in a position to encourage youngsters and other ages.

The other Brian

[philk]

ok heres my two pennie worth.
at the recent southern model airshow i spent quite a bit of time around the boat section. we had over the weekend over 200 model boaters displaying. the vast majority of these were older but not really old. most seemed to be between 30 and 55. at 41 i for obvious reasons do not regard this as old. however i could count the juniors there on one hand. as for the rest of the show. next to us was the model car guys. average age about 22. funny enough the flying guys seemed to be evenly spread between 14 and 50 although probably more towards the younger ages. our club the cygnets have 5 have ago boats and they were running constantly over the whole weekend. so much so that two of them were worn out. and the ages of the havagoers(?) between 7 and 15 the vast majority. i think from this the kids of today are really interested in sailing boats but are not prepared to make the time to build one. i have two daughters 11 and 9 and they both are club members and want boats but guess who has to make them. yep good old dad. they are far too busy playing computer games and playing with there friends.
as for our club. i have been a member there since i was thirteen and started boats when i got fed up taking planes home in a bin liner. the club has always had an average age of over 45 but we do have juniors although i couldn't say how many but certainly less than 15 which is not really a lot in a club of 160.
as to the cause of this and the cure i don;'t know could guess but probably no more accurately than anyone else. if anyone else has the answer let us know.

as a last note we have started running our havagos at club events at the lake and there is always a queue just from kids walking by.

phil

[Colin Bishop]

I think the truth of the matter is that this Forum has a very wide membership with people from all walks of life and different temperaments. What draws us all together is a common interest in model boating. What potentially divides us is our individual attitudes to life and also to model boating. With such a big melting pot the occasional instance of friction is unfortunately inevitable. We don't all see things the same way although there is a remarkable consensus in the circumstances! Therefore, the only civilised way to behave if we see something which offends our sensibilities is to bite our lip and think twice before stoking the flames.

Jörg is right. Before going public, consider a PM to the individual concerned. If you can't say it on a one to one basis then you shouldn't be saying it on the Forum! Assume that the individual concerned didn't mean to be offensive and will accept constructive criticism. OK, maybe they won't, but in that case ignore their posts and it will die the death.

The reality is that this is a good natured and generous forum and the majority will help keep it that way. We can rely on Martin to exercise appropriate moderation to keep us all in order. (Please don't hit me again Martin  )

In the meantime I very much look forward to next year's proposed meeting.

[Martin (Admin)]

After a few requests I've moderated the topic back on track.
I haven't deleted them and will repost once I've toned down the "flame war"!

Martin.

PS. I was right about the Crash Helmet then! :-\

[RC John]

Have you noticed how many RACE MEETINGS the fly boys have? Very Few.
Boats have OMRA and FRSV competitions on a monthly basis.
I have only seen Control line racing at their "Nats". They seem to just fly in circles for no obvious purpose other than to fly. Some "combat" (chop the paper tail/streamer) flying seems only to take place occasionally in their clubs but no other obvious competition events.

Speed and  Racing is not something you start late in life. Boats seem to have more "going for them" in this area - and Yes it does come down to the old problem of access to WATER.

[JayDee]

Hmm,
Not noticed many boat clubs in the Sahara or Gobi deserts !
John. 

[Welsh_Druid]

Have you noticed how many RACE MEETINGS the fly boys have? Very Few.
Boats have OMRA and FRSV competitions on a monthly basis.
I have only seen Control line racing at their "Nats". They seem to just fly in circles for no obvious purpose other than to fly. Some "combat" (chop the paper tail/streamer) flying seems only to take place occasionally in their clubs but no other obvious competition events.

Speed and  Racing is not something you start late in life. Boats seem to have more "going for them" in this area - and Yes it does come down to the old problem of access to WATER.

I am not sure where you are going with this one. Are you saying that Model Boats are an "old mans " hobby because there is very little racing ?   You are certainly right when you say "Speed and  Racing is not something you start late in life"  and in my experience such competitiveness wanes dramatically as one gets older.

In my late teens/early twenties I was a VERY competitive cyclist at National level, in my thirties a keen competitive dinghy sailor, in my forties I was into gliding but after dabbling with speed racing I realised that I missed out on the long fascinating cross country days flying - speed meant wasting good flying days - my competitiveness was waning. I could, and did, fly to achieve  international standards - competing against my own ability so to speak but I no longer needed to prove that I was "better" than others. After early retirement I was into big boat sailing but by now had no interest in racing  - there was a world out there to see and a boat to take me there - so why waste time racing for short periods round the buoys to be followed by boasting afterwards in the bar ?.  

Now much older and wiser (?) I am into model boats and planes.

As one gets older the urge to prove that you are better - faster - even cleverer than other people declines. One learns to accept that a gentle day sailing round the lake in the company of like minded people or flying a model glider for as long as one can in the lift off a cliff edge over the sea in the company of the sea birds is FAR better than trying to prove something like that.

Yes I fly my planes and sail my models "for no obvious purpose " than to fly and sail except that I get the pleasure of seeing my creations perform as I hoped they would.   I have a feeling that the vast majority of contributers to this forum do so too. I do wonder what percentage of boat modellers do in fact race their models ?

So maybe it is already almost  an "Old Mans Hobby"  :)

Don B  

[Bridkid]

Just read Chingdevil's comments on the youngsters of today and this brings to mind my own two sons.

 Each has/had a different temperament, one (my youinger son) was always into sport and off playing football, cricket and tennins at every opportunity. My elder son was always in the shed/garage/workshop with me, taking things apart, finding out how they worked and putting them back together again. He even built a model boat, which I still have (now 22 years old.....the boat not the son..... ) and it still works. However, my point is that both sons are now grown and with respective partners, one saves huindreds of pounds by repairing things and the other is one of the 'throw away and replace' generation. I got one right! Even with a Dad who was into boats and stuff, if the interest isn't there in the first place then they are unlikely to get it from seeing a few boats chug round a pond.

I guess we will just have to hope that sufficient youngsters 'take the bait' even if they don't get into the hobby until their later years.
Cheers,
Ian
 

[OneBladeMissing]

Some aspects of model boating are more likely to attract the older modeller. While racing boats require a certain amount of agility, scale and sailing boats are a more leisurely pursuit. Also the cost of IC multi racing these days is excessively expensive, as are the more powerful electric classes. Back in the 70s/80s we thought nothing of going racing every other sunday from late March through to October, even making forays down into the Midland area occasionally.
Even though I have no interest in building scale ships/boats, I can appreciate the skill that has gone into them by their builders. I can also watch and appreciate the skill involved in other branches of modelling.
I hate the blinkered opinion of "what I'm doing is great, everything else is cr@p".
Some of the people involved in model boating came into the hobby later in life, others have been involved for decades. Unfortunately, some of the skills required to build from scratch (for instance) are beyond the abilities of some people who have not worked their way up from basic kits to building from a plan. Some people of all ages these days require instant gratification, just take it out of the box and put it in the water. 

[cbr900]

You could try what we do here in Australia, we go to the schools and try to help the kids that are keen, with 'have a go boats', and also Small kits that can be built quickly, it is a slow process but it is working....



Roy

[dougal99]

Roy

A good idea but, to work with minors in this country you need to undergo a police check to ensure you are not 'undesirable'. This takes time and is quite intrusive. Further, the MPBA (the national body for model boating) recommend that clubs with minors as members, appoint a child protection officer.

All quite daunting to all but the most dedicated.

Cheers

Doug