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Author Topic: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build  (Read 7885 times)

wizard toys

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The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« on: August 17, 2009, 08:37:07 AM »

Hi
I started a topic under the research section trying to find images of the real Azimut Atlantic Challenger but I am now starting the build so thought this a better place to be O0

The kit arrived on Friday 14th Aug along with a box of extras and a new radio outfit (more later) all direct and very quick from "A Model World", very well packaged although I feel a little guilty of robbing the north of England of all its parcel tape :D - it's a big box and every inch was covered, although the box was also wrapped in plastic so that it was undamaged.

Starting with the kit itself here is what you get:


I'll have a read and then post some more :-))
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Mark47

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 10:29:50 AM »

I'm looking forward to this build.

It will be really intresting to see the end article on the water. Can't wait to see how it performs. Hope you will be able to get some videos when it's finished. O0


Mark
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 10:59:12 AM »

Hi Wizard,

What are you planning to use as the motive force?
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steamboatbob

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 11:05:05 AM »

Hi wizard

I am especcially looking forward to this build as when i built my slomoshun it was a real tricky decision as to which one to get the azimut or the slomo but i decided on the slomo.

 :-))

one question though are you going to use the graupner jets or the KMB jets on this one ??

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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 01:55:01 PM »

Thanks for the interest, hope this answers some of the questions!

Ok, I’ve had a bit of a read, everything is present, one small breakage to one of the wooden frame cut outs part 79 – this fits up under the superstructure. I have already joined the parts back together using Titebond II which I have found to be an excellent wood glue having used it on a large plank on frame hull for the “Navig” Le Sphinx. Also the part will be bonded to the superstructure with Stabilit Express so should be very strong despite the break.
Here is a list of the parts ordered:
  • The kit itself
    The Fittings kit No. 366
    2 Graupner water Jets N0. 2340
    2 Graupner 700BB Turbo Neodym motors
    2 Graupner Reversing Buckets No. 2340.1
    2 Motor mounts
    2 Couplings Robbe 1700
    2 Coupling centres (impeller end) Robbe 1704
    2 Coupling centres (motor end) Robbe 1704
    2 Electronize FX40HX-AN esc’s
    2 lead acids 6 volt 4 Ah
    A Futaba 6EX 2.4GHz system with 4 servos, charger etc.
A Model World (AMW) did what I considered a very good deal on this little lot, they also throw in some cyano, suppressors, tin of cyano activator, 30 amp flexible, wire red & black and a set of clamps at no extra cost. With prices fluctuating so much at the moment due to the exchange rates I won’t give the exact price as you may find this has changed for better or worse, suffice to say that you are looking at around £800 all in. I raised most of this by selling some Tamiya radio control car kits on eBay, I used to collect these a few years ago, still managed to keep my favourites though.  Those that know this model may be wondering about the gear boxes that Graupner do, I didn’t forget, I will be trying a set up with the motors running straight through to avoid the power loss from the gears both the 2:1 ratio and the extra friction. I must admit that the power set up will be a bit of an experiment for me although Mark at AMW has used this set up successfully. I’ll stop the references to AMW now but they have been helpful in getting me under way and some of the set up is based on advice from Mark.
1.   Build the boat stand – Only a couple of mods – I added the self adhesive felt to protect the hull and I also created a tennon on the end of the lower beam as the plan shows this butting up against the supports just glued in place – you can see the lower part in the end section photo.



More soon :-)
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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 02:19:28 PM »

I've actually started on the boat now, actually the jets themselves, as you can see in the pictures there are quite a few parts with these – there should be at this price, but I will say that the quality seems very good. Although Graupner recommend Stabilit Express for virtually everything I'm going on my own experiences with materials and saving the Stabilit for the major “mixed materials” joints. I have joined the two halves of the white suction tube by clamping together and welding with Plastic weld, it's easier to get the two halves perfectly aligned and clamped first and then apply the weld than to wrestle with two sliding surfaces. I followed this up with some Plastic Padding Ultra to smooth out the internal joints. Oh and I did wipe the matting surfaces with acetone first to make sure the plastic was grease free.
One other arrival from eBay, I managed to find the Tamiya pit crew – multi-part figures at 1:20 scale who, with some careful remodelling should make some excellent crew members for this boat when on display.



Although I hope to move this kit on as quickly as possible please don't expect the end too soon, I'm on school hols at the moment :D so progress should be good until next month, it will slow after that :(( I thought that by starting this build here it would give me the push to keep going as much as possible. O0
Now then, fitting the jets to the hull.
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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 04:36:52 PM »

Just a short update, I didn’t mention that the motors were due to follow and unfortunately the delayed order bug has got them <:( so building has been held up somewhat, a pity as I’m on holiday and wanted to make good progress. Anyway I have assembled the water jets  :-)– very straightforward – I used Stabilit express to fix the guide vanes into the outlet nozzle, should be very secure. As I’m using the motors straight through I am redesigning the rear bulkhead – I’ve scanned the wooden bulkhead into the computer and have used Corel draw – a 2D CAD package to trace half of the outline – with some very careful measuring I was able to check for perfect alignment, I then mirrored the image to re-create the existing bulkhead. When the motors arrive I will mark out the changes required and add some strengthening around/over the cut outs – hopefully all this will be clearer when I show the finished drawing. The whole point of this is to then laser cut a new 4mm ply bulkhead when I get back to school. :-))
I have also been preparing some of the vac formed parts – so as not to waste time.
Finally the only vac form parts that look a little “basic” are the rear vents so I intend to create new ones using a 3D CAD package called SolidWorks which we use at school and then to 3D print these on our rapid prototyping machine – creates solid ABS plastic parts.  The machines at school are “toys” compared with industry but they are great for model building purposes, I feel very lucky to have access to such facilities – by the way I do have to pay for the materials used but otherwise have access after school on most days.
Still looking for a really good sound system, looks like it may cost a bit, has anyone used the Graupner soundswitch?

Cheers :-)
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mog10

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 08:38:17 PM »

Hi just a little tip iv built two of these now, when you choose your motors do not use graupner 700bb turbo's they just do not do anything for the performance of this model use brushless an model aircraft company called overlander will help you and the results will be nothing but awesome
happy building
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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 09:33:20 AM »

Ah :embarrassed: unfortunately the 700BB are already ordered although they are the Neodym type and will run straight through without the gearboxes but I have predicted that some testing would be necessary. I asked about brushless when buying the kit but was advised not to go that way {:-{ What I hope to do is develop a motor mount that allows me to change motors if necessary - it could be that starting with a slower boat might be advisable until I get my eye in, until now all the models I have built have been scale slower craft. In the meantime thanks for the lead, I'm keeping all such info together which could save a lot of time if I need to further develop this boat.

Cheers :-))
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red181

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 05:34:32 PM »

Hi, just thought I would offer some personal experience of the neo motors, this is just my experience, and is offered for information only. Be VERY careful, they are far more amp hungry than standard  700 BB turbo's of same voltage. I did extensive testing  this year with a number of 700 BB turbos, 9.6v, 12v, 8.4v, and the neo. Whilst it is an improvement on standard motors, the first I had destroyed a 60amp esc, thinking it was the esc at fault, I fitted another, and the same happened. I had used the exact same set up, prop, batteries, etc with the 9.6 and 8.4, whilst they got warm (water cooled) the neo seemed to overheat very quickly, and once the boat stopped, and the water cooling stopped, the heat build up coming out of the can was so hot it was untouchable. Now  I know there will be people saying the set up is wrong if its getting that hot, like I say, the other motors where fine.

Now, possibly the neo was faulty, so I used another, ran the same tests, the 8.4, then the 9.6, then the neo, it ran fine for five minutes, a speed improvement, but not that much better than the 9.6, kept bringing the boat in to check temp, then the motor overheated and failed again!.

I think the advice about brushless is pretty poor, they are far more efficient, and offer a higher power output,if you want efficient speed, lokk at what the racing guys are using, brushless set ups,  so like I say, be careful, make sure you esc's have plenty of headroom for the amp draw
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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 01:00:11 PM »

Hi
Thanks for the info, were the tests with a water jet or through a propeller and can I ask the type/size of propeller used and on what type of boat? Your over heating does sound frustrating :(( as the other motors were working fine - if I do go ahead as planned I will keep a very close eye ;) on this and report back here - still a way off at present though.

Wizardtoys :-)
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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2009, 11:52:57 AM »

Would you believe it >>:-(, here we are the 20th September and still no motors <:(. Apparently Graupner have been suffering mistakes in manufacturing :o, a whole batch of neo motors had problems and so there is now a big delay for the next ones. Consequently very little progress as I don't want to put the bulkheads in until I have modified them to fit the motors. Also back at school now so can't do much until the end of October anyway. Hope to have another happier chat then.

Bye for now
Wizardtoys
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red181

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2009, 07:22:27 PM »

it was with  2 boats, both scale, one was a 36" ply Fireboat, props ranging from 40mm (cold motor) up to 45mm, still cold under testing, then it melted the esc for no apparent reason. After another esc faliure it appeared to be the motor. 2nd boat was a 48" ply Huntsman28, bigger boat, careful testing starting with a tiny 35mm 2 blade, up to 50mm "x" prop, all tests where under strict very short runs, and into test temps. Batterioes remained cold, esc remained cold, motor wa only just starting to warm up, then all of a sudden for no reason it failed.

Both where water cooled.

How did you find out Graupner have had problems with Neo's? I want my money back for the 2 motors, dont supposed they will compensate fotr the 2 esc's that where damaged to the point of scrap? >:-o
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wizard toys

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2009, 10:13:35 PM »

Had the news from "A Model World" about a week ago apparently a "goof" in manufacture caused problems with the windings. Thanks for the other info, I seriously want to build the 48" Huntsman so these will be off the list for that.

Cheers

Wizard Toys
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A Model World

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Re: The Azimut Atlantic Challenger from Graupner New Build
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2009, 10:23:17 PM »

The goof did not effect any motors supplied we do have one that we are looking at...they should be in this week. On the note of a a 48 Huntsman it has only one motor I would recommend and thats the graupner 900 in fact i would go as a far as to say that if your were disappointed with these 900 s you can keep the motors and have double your money back..
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