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Author Topic: LOST HOPE  (Read 5211 times)

DARLEK1

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LOST HOPE
« on: August 20, 2009, 11:50:50 pm »

I see the released Lockerbie bomber got welcomed home by a heros welcome?

 Why?

 Paul... <*< <*< <*< <*< <*<
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Bee

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 12:38:33 am »

Because he didn't do it.
It always was a politically expedient conviction and the 'evidence ' wouldn't even have convicted someone for shoplifting in other circumstances. I subscribe to the theory that it was an Iranian act in response to the shooting down of their aeroplane by Americans a few months before.
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over_powered84

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 02:40:09 am »

Gotta Love Scottish Compassion Eh?
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Malcolm Reade

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 06:19:17 am »

You now have to wonder what will happen to Gary Wotisname due to be extradited to the States on hacking charges now that we've managed to upset the Americans?

He'll probably get 500 years hard labour and have to do the lot?

Malc

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andygh

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 08:20:02 am »

He probably deserves 500 years, forget the tabloid posturing, if you look into what he did it turns out the guy's been very naughty indeed
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dreadnought72

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 08:44:30 am »

Miscarriage of justice, Paul.

Just like the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Maguire 7 (I'm sounding like the footie results). Of course, if you'd rather these people had been hanged following their convictions, we wouldn't be in this position.  %)

Andy
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Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Wasyl

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 09:43:05 am »

I,m of the opinion,that instead of wanting to jail him,the Americans,should consider employing him,as a security adviser,after all,he did show how inept they were when it came to having a secured PC network,
then there,s the other argument, "the one way extradition treaty"Westminster has with the US,i.e.The American A10 pilot who killed British troops in a Blue on Blue,in Iraq,quote, We will not allow this pilot to be extradited"said the Americans,then there,s the numerous IRA suspects,that America would not extradite,simply because there,s too many Irish/American voters,

Wullie
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bigfella

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 09:58:47 am »

I thought the idea of Life in prison meant life in prison end of story. I am sick of the soft approach of the justice system in Australia and it would seam in the UK. If you did not have a train set as kid the do gooders will get you off a murder charge with mitigating circumstances. If you know the difference between Right and Wrong then you have no excuse. Do the time.
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snowwolflair

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 10:06:21 am »

BP and others want the oil in Lybia - need I say more
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Colin Bishop

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 10:16:48 am »

Quote
BP and others want the oil in Lybia - need I say more

Quite right I'm afraid. When national interests are at stake principles fly out of the window. It has always been that way throughout recorded history and things are unlikely to change.

I caught the Scottish Justice Minister's statement on the radio yesterday and felt it was just sanctimonious drivel.

Colin
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Wasyl

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2009, 11:22:48 am »

I thought the idea of Life in prison meant life in prison end of story. I am sick of the soft approach of the justice system in Australia and it would seam in the UK. If you did not have a train set as kid the do gooders will get you off a murder charge with mitigating circumstances. If you know the difference between Right and Wrong then you have no excuse. Do the time.
Thats really good coming from,an Australian,who probaly would,nt be here today,had it not been for the UK justice system,in the 17th/18th cen,unless you,re of Aborigine descent

Wullie
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wbeedie

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 11:39:50 am »

Why should a man who had been jailed on the flimsiest of evidence die in a foreign country what happened to the Skipper of the US warship who shot down the Iranian plane not a lot and declared an accident ,the same with the pilot of the A!) Warthog who killed 9 serving UK soldiers including three members of my regiment ,as long as Congress gets what it wants and to flip with the rest ,did anything happen about the bombing of Tripoli so conveniantly forgotten also ,where was America when we were getting blitzed by the IRA from funds that were recieved from the good old US and weapons supplied from LIbya with the American dollar but when something happens to them or theirs then all hell breaks loose and sorry if I have offended any members from over the pond
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Wasyl

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 12:15:59 pm »

My sentiments exactly,If it was up to the Americans,there would be one Law,"American Law,"After 9/11 we were coerced into going to war with Iraq,WMD,s and all that,then Afghanistan,In the last 150 years,No invading army has ever beaten the Afghans,This "war on Terror"again instigated by the Bush administration,is unwinnable,If the Americans want to be the Policeman of the world, then thats up to them,
They thought that when Saddam fell, they would be welcomed with open arms,how little did they know,I am of the opinion that they are the most hypocritical, people on this planet,
Where,s their sense of right when it comes to the Palestinian problem,i,ll re-phrase that,Jewish,Its like  Northern Ireland,"Irish/American,Jewish/American,its all about money,

After the second world war,the Germans were told,by the allies,"that no German soldier would ever again be allowed to fight outside of Germany,
yet when the Americans got their a***,s kicked by the Somali,s,the Americans asked the Germans to send troops as part of a multi-national force,The Germans declined,

Wullie
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BarryM

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 01:11:31 pm »

Quite right I'm afraid. When national interests are at stake principles fly out of the window. It has always been that way throughout recorded history and things are unlikely to change.

I caught the Scottish Justice Minister's statement on the radio yesterday and felt it was just sanctimonious drivel.

Colin

If you "just caught" the statement then you may have missed hearing it in its entirety as broadcast live on News 24. If you did listen to the entire statement, then you would be aware that his reasoning and the legal requirements bearing on his actions were covered in considerable detail. None of his critics have said, as far as I am aware, that he left anything out. He then took questions and - unusually I admit for a politician - did not prevaricate and he kept on taking questions until they dried up.

If you only saw the extracts in the newspapers and the news broadcasts you may have obtained a different slant. As always, it's well to judge on all the facts and not just the bits that somebody in an editing room wants to give you.

Barry M
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bigfella

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 01:48:42 pm »

Thats really good coming from,an Australian,who probaly would,nt be here today,had it not been for the UK justice system,in the 17th/18th cen,unless you,re of Aborigine descent

Wullie
No, I was born in the UK and saw the light and emigrated and now there is so much light from the 365 days of sunshine. Australia, gods own country. {-) {-) {-) {-) But I get your point. The justice system, as a system, is fine it is the do gooders and the civil libertarians that have soften the penalties for crimes that have made Judges unable to issue the correct sentences.
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tomo55

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 02:06:15 pm »

Wether he did it or not , Should he of been released or served his time Is out of our hands .
He is home let out by a weak kneed politician . Same as it ever was.
That does not mean we have to listen to moaning Americans.I served 5 tours in Ulster being sniped at by weapons bought by the US dollar.
Now if we still had Hanging on the statute books?
Chris

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Wasyl

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2009, 02:14:00 pm »

365 days of sunshine,sounds nice,But,i,ll stick to being here,can,t say i,d like being overrun every so often by millions of mice,poisonous toads,equally poisonous snakes,giant crocodiles,10 year droughts zillions of Baa,Baa,s {-)and God forbid Fosters Beer, {-)and not forgetting getting clunked on the head,by a stray,bent stick that did,nt return to its sender, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

Wullie
in Gods other country,well up until yeaterday  {-)
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Wasyl

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2009, 02:22:47 pm »

Wether he did it or not , Should he of been released or served his time Is out of our hands .
He is home let out by a weak kneed politician . Same as it ever was.
That does not mean we have to listen to moaning Americans.I served 5 tours in Ulster being sniped at by weapons bought by the US dollar.
Now if we still had Hanging on the statute books?
Chris


Personally I applaud the,Scottish  Justice Minister,he was going to be damned if he did,and damned if he did,t,at least he did,nt bow to The Americans,who jail "suspects"for years without trial,simply because,of their paranoia,If they,d stop trying to meddle in the affairs of the world in general,perhaps then the world would see them in a different light,as it is all they do is get right up peoples nose,s

Wullie
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Colin Bishop

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2009, 02:58:11 pm »

Quote
If you "just caught" the statement then you may have missed hearing it in its entirety as broadcast live on News 24.

Yes, I did only hear the final stages of his statement. I see from the account in today's Times that he did indeed cover all the bases in establishing that he had considered all the factors and that the decision was his alone, fair enough. But I did feel that the references to "a higher authority" and the stress on what a compassionate place Scotland is was over egging the pudding to say the least.

As to whether the guy was just a scapegoat or up to his neck in the plot I'm not qualified to comment. Obviously he couldn't have acted alone if he was. But the legal position yesterday was that he was a convicted prisoner at the time of his release. By withdrawing his appeal, the circumstances will not now be re examined in a court of law which would appear to suit most of the parties concerned very well apart from the bereaved relatives who will probably never find out the truth of the matter. I believe it's called Realpolitik. The American Government can of course posture, as they are doing, in the knowledge that none of the mud will stick to them and then get on quietly with improving business dealings with Libya.

Colin
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polaris

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2009, 06:44:52 pm »


Dear Wullie,

I agree with you (damned if did, damned if didn't) - and the same applies to the Judge and Jury who put him in prison. It was probably right to do so, but if anyone tries to get me to believe he was the only participant in the deed................................... who knows... and we will not know for a very very long time... if ever.

It would have been helpful if Mr Obama had not said anything, and it would have been a touch diplomatic if the Libyan Govt. had ensured things were low key, but, we, the madding masses, don't know what has gone on in between - or who is doing what for why (or just maybe we might suspect). As always the media will pick the bones of it as it's good print etc., and do their best to sell their rags and TV for a while on the back of it, but, like all things they pick on it will gradually dwindle away.

As to the right's and wrong's of the matter, well, it's for higher authorities than us to decide... we can only take our private opinion. My private opinion... well, it remains just that!

Regards, Bernard
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2009, 07:00:23 pm »

You now have to wonder what will happen to Gary Wotisname due to be extradited to the States on hacking charges now that we've managed to upset the Americans?

He'll probably get 500 years hard labour and have to do the lot?

Malc



I am American,...

Why am I supposed to be upset?
Who is Gary Wotisname? What did he do?, and Why would I want him?  {:-{

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OMK

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2009, 07:12:17 pm »

Gary McKinnon. Got caught hacking US military files - mainly trying to expose the dirt on the so-called UFO secrets.
Considered a bit of a hero and all-round nice guy.
Try snooping the Net because there is a pretty interesting video of him being interviewed. Intriguing stuff, without all the usual hoo-ha.
Something here to go on.....

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Hacker-Gary-McKinnon-Can-Appeal-Extradition-Moves-British-Man-Infiltrated-US-Military-Networks/Article/200901415209373?lpos=UK_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15209373_Hacker_Gary_McKinnon_Can_Appeal_Extradition_Moves%3A_British_Man_Infiltrated_US_Military_Networks
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polaris

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2009, 07:17:10 pm »


Dear Umi,

Like quite a few of the now quietly prominent IT programmers, they started life as hackers and were then 'bagged' by the software people because they were brilliant. I know little on this matter, but this chap being talked about was obviously very very IT clever, and seemingly did what the Russians have been doing for years... viz. monitoring everything that is going on... we know it, they know it, we know they know it, and they know we know they know it... therefore everybody is happy %%

Someone somewhere is a touch upset about things, and instead of bagging him they should give him a job, but the trouble is he missjudged the present situation where hacking into the most private parts of the US defence system was not appreciated! %)

Oh well! As far as I am concerned, if any Govt. isn't clever enough to prevent Joe Public from gaining access then it's their fault... because if Joe Public can, what can other official bodies do... they are all watching what each other is doing anyway O0 %) :-)

Regards, Bernard
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Colin Bishop

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2009, 07:37:35 pm »

Quote
Oh well! As far as I am concerned, if any Govt. isn't clever enough to prevent Joe Public from gaining access then it's their fault... because if Joe Public can, what can other official bodies do... they are all watching what each other is doing anyway   

But you could apply that argument to people who run internet scams. If we don't keep our avntivirus and firewalls up to date or fall for some plaisble phishing email and get fleeced then it's our fault - not the b*****ds who are trying to rob us.

Colin
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OMK

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Re: LOST HOPE
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2009, 08:03:22 pm »

Excellent point........ with just one minor difference. My take is that the scammers are out to steal, deliberately lying to you with scams such as  false banking statements and other hi-tech means of trying to get their paws on your hard-earnt. Mr McKinnon, on the other hand, had no intentions of stealing on his mind. I think the Yanks are more miffed at the fact of just how easily McKinnon found it to access their systems. Red faces all round - which will probably be just reason for them to lock him up forever, never to see the light of day again.
The reality is, our Yanky cousins are not stupid. They know a good thing when they see it and will have already realised just what a clever bloke McKinnon is. They want him for theirselves... just like the history books have already proven when they took the WWII German scientists' for their rocketry knowledge and ulitimately declared the credit as their own... just like they did when they broke the sound barrier (another stolen Brit idea), and just like they did when they.......
The list is endless.
Was the Lockerbie bomber guilty? Did they have the right man? You and I will never know because that famous Yanky paranoia-syndrome-effect immediately kicks in and innocent people ultimately end up taking the wrap.
Just like they did when.........
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