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Author Topic: Day Light bulbs  (Read 2171 times)

Tom@Crewe

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Day Light bulbs
« on: September 02, 2009, 04:44:47 PM »

OK. OK. There is a lot of debate about light bulbs at the moment.

And pros and cons for both.

I don’t really want to debate it in this thread But………….

I have a Daylighter Bulb 100w and one spare, will there be or is there an alternative in the energy saving bulbs?
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DickyD

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 05:14:40 PM »

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Bryan Young

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 05:18:46 PM »

Although the EU "Edict" is now in force (with swingeing penalties for non-compliant traders) many questions still need answering. Model makers are just one group of people who are going to suffer. Photographic studios perhaps? People with impaired vision? The list could go on. My original "Anglepoise" lamp gave up the ghost a few weeks ago (not just electrically, but also structurally). I had numerous options including a halogen lit thing but went for the item sold by Argos with a double loop flourescent tube in it. In practice it is OK(ish) as far as light intensity is concerned, but the light is very "cold" and not particularly pleasant. Also (and this is a big "also") when using it to illuminate a bit of lathe work at certain speeds I get a strobing effect on the work piece. I know why it happens, but it can be a bit unsettling. All in all, a stupid bit of legislation that didn't really need to be enacted. BY.
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jonny shoreboy

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 05:32:05 PM »

I didn't think daylight bulbs were part of the list of bulbs being dumped by the EU (and many other governments around the world).. Mainly because I was told clear bulbs and frosted were to be dumped, but Daylight Bulbs are a specialist item and neither clear nor frosted!

Debate aside there are still lost of clearing up to do of the finer details..
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Bartapuss

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 10:30:51 PM »

Another point that has not been mentioned in the popular press is this, when these energy saver bulbs first became available in the mid 90's they were quite pricey but they did last a very long time I must have at least 3 or 4 form then which are still going strong which is a hell of a lot longer than some of those that I have bought recently say in the last 18 months. Those I've had from free Philips ones from my electricity company have lasted only a couple of months at best and cheap ones from B&Q not much better. I've even had new ones give up after say an hours use, took one apart to see what went wrong to find a capacitor had popped.
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chingdevil

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 10:56:29 PM »

I hope you dispossed of the dud lamps correctly, remember when they do not work any more they are classed as toxic waste due to the mercury in them.

So much for good for the environment, just a load of green wash >:-o >:-o >:-o >:-o >:-o


Brian
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 09:36:26 AM »

I did read a suggestion recently to the effect that the reason for promoting the compact fluorescents is to allow manufacturers to recover their development and startup costs before they are overtaken by cheap LED bulbs which offer better performance at very much lower power consumption.

Some of the compact fluorescents you can buy now are not too bad but you have to buy the expensive types as the cheapo types are really just rubbish which is why they give them away I expect. Of course they are all "frosted" so no use for fittings which require point sources of light in which case you have to go for halogen which is only marginally more efficient than incandescent and costs a great deal more. Also, if you want a decent light output, most of the compact fluorescents are too big to fit in many existing light fittings so you are faced with the cost of replacing those too.

All a bit of a shambles really....

Colin
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chingdevil

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2009, 11:47:59 AM »

You also have to run the useless pieces of junk a lot longer to get them up to full light output, so no saving in energy there.

Brian
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Circlip

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2009, 12:19:22 PM »

And just as an aside on the "Energy Saving" blubs.

 
OK., which dipstick has decided these are energy saving??

1 Printed circuit panel.
3 Transformers.
2 Power transistors.
6 Diodes.
4 Capacitors plus 1 Electrolytic.
10 ? Resistors.
Solder.

ALL of which goes in the bin when the tube is dead.

  My local Slupermarket was selling the new ones at 39p each or 5 for 50p

    Regards Ian
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dreadnought72

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2009, 12:32:12 PM »

Probably the dipstick with the calculator who notes that a 100W incandescent bulb with a lifetime of 1000 hours running at a typical lighting efficiency of 5% is wasting 340 Megajoules - about £7 - per bulb.

Andy
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2009, 01:20:19 PM »

There is also the argument that the most use of lighting occurs outside the summer months when your heating is likely to be on. So every bit of heat emitted by your incandescent bulb is that much less than your heating has to provide. OK it might be a bit more expensive to produce but it's still another factor to take into account.

Colin
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sweeper

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2009, 05:16:24 PM »

It would be really nice if someone i.e. one of the "dipsticks with a calculator" would put forward the definitive reasons why this idea is being rammed down our throats.
There have been plenty of claims about the cost savings in use but I have not found any published data to back this up. The manufacturers appear to be very shy of providing information other than the fact that they are cheaper to run i.e. the metered costs are lower.

The concept of the effects (real or possible) of these new lamps is just shrugged off. For example the effects on people who suffer from migrane or lupus.
It appears that when any objection is raised, there is simply an attitude being adopted of "we know best - so accept it".

I have no objection to the adoption of improved technology on the basis that it is an genuine improvement - but is this such a case?
And that is, of course, before we even start down the road of disposal of the used product. 

Stuff the E.U., stick with Mr. Swan's invention. In anycase, if the E.U. have their way, in a few years time it will be a very theoretical discussion as it looks as though we won't have the generating capacity to use any of them. :(( Candles anyone?
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Subculture

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 06:51:15 PM »

I think this is a sound move personally.

Florescent tubes aren't the long term answer, as Colin said LED's will quickly replace them, the output from these is already more than capable of replacing incandescents, it's just cost that is the issue. They will only come down in price as a result of extremely high volume of manufacture.

How do you do that? You give industry an incentive by giving them a market to cater to. You can't expect a business to start producing products and hope people will choose them over the alternative- that's commercial suicide.

I anticipate that within a couple of years, most people will wonder what all the noise was about.

Tom@Crewe

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 07:00:38 PM »

OK. OK. There is a lot of debate about light bulbs at the moment.

And pros and cons for both.

I don’t really want to debate it in this thread But………….

I have a Daylighter Bulb 100w and one spare, will there be or is there an alternative in the energy saving bulbs?


I knew you could not resist, I did say that I did not really want to discuss the pros and cons BUT if there was an alternative energy saving bulb, seems only DickyD got it!
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Subculture

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 08:02:44 PM »

I did answer it. there will be a solution to your needs, it will just take a little while to filter through to the market place. These things are chicken and egg- whilst companies continue to make incandescent lamps, and people continue to buy them, there is little incentive for companies to provide an affordable alternative.

A couple of Seoul P7 led's will give you a greater light output than your 100 watt incandescent for about 20w.

Tom@Crewe

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 09:02:31 AM »

Sorry Subculture, I did read you info and some other sites about the P7 and impressive it is But.....the Daylight bulbs give a light output close to daylight. So more colour detail and looking at colours in a more accurate representation of daylight conditions.....So although the P7 will be bright will it give the same light output as a daylight bulb?
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Subculture

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 10:49:08 PM »

The p7 colour temperature is 6300K, a little cooler than daylight which is about 5500k depending on the time of day.

LED's however can be doped to produce any colour temperature you like.

Any tungsten filament lamp is lucky to reach 12-15 lumens per watt the P7 achieves 90 lumens per watt. Osram have an LED which can get over 150 lumens per watt, but that's in the lab.

stallspeed

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2009, 01:49:55 AM »

If it is for photography,forget led bulbs because of the blue spike in the colour spectrum

If you want flicker free high efficiency LED lighting then make sure.............
the leds are powered by dc either through a dc supply
 or
have the bulbs with the integral constant brightness unit that works off  9-16v AC,50Hz or 11-24v DC
and
you get the correct colour temperature.
and
if you get downlights,avoid the wide angle type as they dazzle.

So far LED bulbs are in abundance in MR11,GU10,edison screw and other international formats but I have not seen them in bayonet with the light equivalent of 100watt.
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Subculture

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2009, 11:41:59 AM »

Seen this-

http://www.earthled.com/evolux-led-light-bulb.html

Yes I know they're expensive, but the price will drop exponentially if the units are produced high volume.

Something worthwhile to point out. I work on the Tube as a signalling technician. A lot of signals now use LED's, but a lot still have to use filament lamps, because LED's haven't got type approval (progress is a veeeery slow in a railway environment). One lamp we use is a 33w dual filament bayonet type fitting, similar size to a normal domestic lamp. Cost each for these lamps is £32. Shows how expensive things get when you don't produce them by the million.

Bryan Young

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2009, 06:19:39 PM »

Seen this-

http://www.earthled.com/evolux-led-light-bulb.html

Yes I know they're expensive, but the price will drop exponentially if the units are produced high volume.

Something worthwhile to point out. I work on the Tube as a signalling technician. A lot of signals now use LED's, but a lot still have to use filament lamps, because LED's haven't got type approval (progress is a veeeery slow in a railway environment). One lamp we use is a 33w dual filament bayonet type fitting, similar size to a normal domestic lamp. Cost each for these lamps is £32. Shows how expensive things get when you don't produce them by the million.
What, if anything, is the difference between a "dual filament" lamp and what used to be called a "squirrel cage lamp" as is (was?) used in ships navigation lights? Just asking! Cheers BY.
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Subculture

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Re: Day Light bulbs
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2009, 06:56:53 PM »

I had to look up a squirrel cage lamp, as I hadn't heard of that before.

It looks to me as if those lamps have a single filament specially wound for rough service. Our dual filament lamps are like a conventional lamp, just with two filaments inside. The purpose behind this is two fold, it gives a bit of back-up, and with one filament gone the signal aspect is slightly dimmer. Drivers are supposed to report dim aspects, as this gives us a chance to relamp the signal before the second filament gives up the ghost. Great in theory, but human nature being what it is, some drivers are more conscientious than others, and a lot of dim aspects go unreported.

LED's have reduced our relamping to a minimum. This is advantageous as it leaves us available for more serious failures.
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