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Author Topic: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?  (Read 2948 times)

MikeK

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Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« on: September 04, 2009, 06:06:34 PM »

Not exactly model connected, except to transport them.  O0
Just read an article in a magazine claiming that new European legislation is threatening all independent garages in the UK. As from 2010 ALL REPAIRS to vehicles will have to be carried out by main dealers who charge virtually double the smaller independents charge. I just cannot believe that they could, at a stroke of the pen, kill off all small garages in the UK. -Or could I  O0  >:-o

Being a sucker for lost causes I have signed the on-line petition, anyone else interested can find more info and the petition here :  www.r2rc.co.uk

Hopefully it's all nowt

Mike
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Roger in France

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2009, 06:11:55 PM »

Don't believe everything you read in the media (or on Mayhem !).

Roger in France
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ajb68

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 06:14:00 PM »

Just when you think the regulations cant get any more crazy along comes this ! utter madness though i thing a few well placed words may remind them that we aint happy about this  >>:-( <*< >>:-( <*<
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Wasyl

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2009, 10:40:31 PM »

But, if this new legislation does come about,..Thats all we,ll do is utter a few choice words,then surrender meekly,unlike the French,they don,t stand for any s**t, you just have to look at,their Ferry Port workers,truck drivers,farmers,if their not happy with the way Brussels treats them then they stand together,but what do we do,..a big fat zero,

Wullie

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Ron1

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 11:11:13 PM »

But, if this new legislation does come about,..Thats all we,ll do is utter a few choice words,then surrender meekly,unlike the French,they don,t stand for any s**t, you just have to look at,their Ferry Port workers,truck drivers,farmers,if their not happy with the way Brussels treats them then they stand together,but what do we do,..a big fat zero,

Wullie





One thing you have to remember ,over here the Police crack down heavily on any one trying to demomstrate, were as in France the police stand back and say its not our fight, and then let them do what they want. <*< <*<
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sheerline

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2009, 11:37:39 PM »

Go UKIP! :-))
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Wasyl

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2009, 12:40:04 AM »

I do realise that,here, the Police take a dim view of any demonstration,but there are other ways that we can make ourselves heard,take for instance,the ever increasing price of fuel, can you imagine what would happen,if everyone did not buy fuel for just one day,The Government would  have kittens,every time there is a fuel increase,what do we do,we all run to the petrol pumps to stock up before the rise starts,"more tax revenue" for the Gov,just so that we can save a few pence,
and the prices keep going up,even when the price of oil kept falling,
We were supposed to be an oil producer,America is an oil producer,there prices are $2.50 per gallon,
look at our income tax,our troops are paying income tax when there in Iraq,Afghanistan,wherever,the Americans don,t,
then there,s the way we treat tax exiles,we bestow titles on them and hail them as Great Brits,yet they live in tax havens like Monaco,
I think i,d better put my soap box away,

Wullie
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MikeK

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2009, 06:08:50 AM »

Not sure I should have mentioned it now !  %) I can feel the frustration with our so called leaders and the other lot over the water, dripping out of the replies. I agree with Sheerline, but maybe with a slightly more pessimistic - hesitant shout of "Go UKIP "  :((

Mike
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2009, 08:23:32 AM »


Just read an article in a magazine claiming that new European legislation is threatening all independent garages in the UK. As from 2010 ALL REPAIRS to vehicles will have to be carried out by main dealers who charge virtually double the smaller independents charge. I just cannot believe that they could, at a stroke of the pen, kill off all small garages in the UK. -Or could I 

They have already applied the REACH Chemicals directive. That required each manufacturer to formally prove, at vast expense, the safety of EVERY chemical used in their business. That included all traditional materials which had been used since time immemorial.

Net result - much small scale manufacture of specialist paints and other compounds which modellers use has now ceased. Only big companies can afford the chemical assay laboratory costs to do this sort of thing. But nobody complained, because the word 'chemicals' sounds complicated......
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wombat

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2009, 09:34:10 AM »

Interesting reading the legislation on vehicle maintenance. Just pulled up these clauses:

(19) It would be inappropriate to exempt any vertical agreement that restricts the sale of original spare parts or spare parts of matching quality by members of the distribution system to independent repairers which use them for the provision of repair or maintenance services. Without access to such spare parts, these independent repairers would not be able to compete effectively with authorised repairers, since they could not provide consumers with good quality services which contribute to the safe and reliable functioning of motor vehicles.

Translation - agreements between manufacturers and dealers that restricts sale of spare parts to independant repairers is to be considered anti-competative

(22) Furthermore, it is not necessary, in order to adequately provide for repair and maintenance services, for authorised repairers to also sell new motor vehicles. The exemption should therefore not cover vertical agreements containing any direct or indirect obligation or incentive which leads to the linking of sales and servicing activities or which makes the performance of one of these activities dependent on the performance of the other; this is in particular the case where the remuneration of distributors or authorised repairers relating to the purchase or sale of goods or services necessary for one activity is made dependent on the purchase or sale of goods or services relating to the other activity, or where all such goods or services are indistinctly aggregated into a single remuneration or discount system.

Translation - repeairers need to be authorised to repair and maintain vehicles, however to be an authorised repairer a business does not need to be a main dealer.

Seems to me that the legislation is focussed on limiting the power of the manufacturers and main dealers to restrict the supply of parts and information to independants. Of course there could be serious implications for some independants as the flip side is that they need to be performing the repairs and maintenance to the same standard as would be expected of a main dealer.

With regard to the REACH legislation  - seems perfectly laudible to me - that the manufacturer of a chemical product has to be responsible for ensuring and proving that the  product they sell is safe, especiallly when it contains chemicals that are carcinogenic, accumulate in the environment or cause mutation . It requires the maanufacturers to understand how their products are used  and what they put in them. It also requires them to liase with the resto of the supply chain.

Remember also that while the cost or REACH is massive costing businesses a few billions of pound s over the whole of Europe, the independant assesments are that it will save the European taxpayer far more in savings of healthcare costs because of the effects of these chemicals. It's aim is to push the costs of pollution onto the polluters not the pollutees

Wom
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over_powered84

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2009, 10:25:59 AM »

I just cannot believe that they could, at a stroke of the pen, kill off all small garages in the UK. -Or could I  O0  >:-o


Mike

Scottish Shipyards + Thatcher = A Job Loss Disaster {:-{
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Bryan Young

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2009, 06:38:49 PM »

Scottish Shipyards + Thatcher = A Job Loss Disaster {:-{
Sorry, but that's a load of hoo-ha. Sure, the Thatcher government was in office at the time, but the Clyde (and Tyne, Mersey etc.) all went down the tubes. Remember the so-called "Boilermakers" strike? Everybody in those days went on strike because some jumped up Union oik had a grievance (imaginary, mostly). The shipyards just couldn't compete in the world market as delivery was always at the whim of the aforesaid oik. Do you really think that the owners of these shipyards (and other industries) actually wanted to commit suicide? The main reason that Britain declined in the world industrial market was due to the activities of the Unions, and (to a greater or lesser degree) the emergence of previously "backward" countries becoming able to make things for themselves, without relying on others. BY.
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Jimmy James

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2009, 07:13:01 PM »

HERE HERE  Well said Brian...Unions and the like are a good thing as long as the power is used with a modicum of common sense ...A union out of control is a disaster... But I think the EU should have NO power to impose laws on member states that is not what the original charter intended AND if they think they can impose on our Sovereign rights then Britain should get out of the EU and have only a free trade agreement (which was the real reason for the founding of the EU in the first place.
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catengineman

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2009, 07:47:59 PM »

Err forgive me but isn't the EU one of them UNION thingys? full of erm  jumped up Union oik's ?

R,
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Bartapuss

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 01:38:07 PM »

I really can't see this being workable especially from a manufacturer or even dealers point of view for that matter at the present time, both parties are only interested in carrying out any work on vehicles that fall within the warrant period and usually contract out major body work and by that I mean any body or structural repair which does not warrant the vehicle being written off by the insurer, to an approved repair specialist, to carry all the specialist equipment and jigs in house is just not viable based purely on costs. Also vehicles over say five years old the original manufacturer will no longer supply the spare parts as this again is not cost affective in todays "just in time" manufacturing supply strategy and it is again left to the after market specialists to look after this trade.

I can see the real underlying thinking of this new legislation if brought into force,  and that is to bring Europe into line with the likes of Japan, where cars are junked after just three years on the road because their environmental and safety standards are so much higher than ours,  that its just not economical  to carry out major repairs once the vehicle reaches that age, things like light clusters are fully sealed and changing something like a bulb not possible but it does make the unit much easier to manufacture in the first place and is going to last long enough until the vehicle is withdrawn from use on the road anyway. As a result people will have not choice but to buy a new car every three years or so as it is more cost effective to do so.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2009, 02:01:53 PM »

I am proud to be one of the "Jumped up Union OIKS"

I suppose all you anti-union people don't accept the negotiated pay rises and reduction in the working week or better conditions.
You want a return to Dickensian practices where the employer has all the rights and the employees don't have any.
Hire and fire at will,
It is the rise of your values that have produced the acceptance of individual contracts and the level of fear within employment today.
Yes in the 70's the weak Management allowed things to get out of hand, but now we have the opposite.
I have advised many non-union members who have been disciplined on the flimsiest of excuses.
Now the Directors have all the power and wages in average 16 times that of an employee.
If they don't do their job correctly they are "let go" with a golden handshake and contributions to their pension pot.
My own family work in companies that regularly flout their own procedures and any modicum of sensible Health and Safety.

I really cant understand the anti-Union feeling as the Union is only as strong (or Weak) as the membership and looks after their members.

You have your choice whether to join or not, but isn't it hypocritical to accept the gains made, but that is the usual way for anti-union sentiments.
Accept the improvements but under no circumstances pay any dues or even participate.

Bob


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malcolmfrary

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 02:24:40 PM »

For those who have both a search engine and the sense to use it, it should be possible to find the following link -
www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snbt-05060.pdf
This states, fairly clearly on the first page, that under EU law, motor manufacturers are FORBIDDEN from setting up exclusive service/repair networks.  Like much law in this sort of area, it is time limited.  In this case it runs out in 2010, and the debate is whether to continue it or replace it, and if so, what with, not to create an imposition on everybody except the undeservedly rich.
Being a report on the actual source, rather than a pre-digested, heavily modified article in a paper biased to make a particular point to people who can't be bothered to check as long as the misinformation corresponds to their views, it will fall into the area of "Don't confuse the issue with facts".
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Roger in France

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2009, 02:44:08 PM »

At last, two sensible contributions, thank you.

Not that it will result in much learning by those with closed minds, simplistic views and a sheeplike mentality that knows no better than to follow the false and muck raking utterances of the mass media.

Roger in France
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MikeK

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2009, 05:15:02 PM »

I get the feeling I have just had a mild rollicking,  :embarrassed:  but I did end with the hope it would come to nowt.
Thanks to those who have taken the time to research more thoroughly than I obviously did. The article I read was in a Motor Home club monthly magazine, so I suppose you could say there was cause for mild panic there.
As to the other matters raised, I have a deep distrust of all politicians, be they home grown or foreign spawned and nothing of late has helped to change this.
Bryan's 'oiks' I guess refer to the period when job demarcation ruled ie 'I can't pull that nail out, call for a chippy' sort of thing and the strikes that were brought about over equally petty grievances. Around that period the honourable union principles of looking after the working man got a bit lost allowing the politicians (yes, 'them' again !) to come down hard on union activity and it still hasn't recovered.
Ah well, time to put the soap box back to its secondary use - a foot rest at the modelling bench in the shed.

Mike
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Bartapuss

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2009, 05:22:16 PM »

I am no big fans of unions myself but the founding fathers of trade unions back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries basically fought a war in order to improve the lives of themselves and their and their fellow workers from what was best described as workhouse conditions, some literally  paid for their beliefs with their lives by being murder by sadistic factory owners and a government with very little humanity. Working for a living must have been at times a living hell as people dying in the work place was the norm especially young children "press ganged" into service back then and did not cease till the around the time of the first world war. Everything we have today with regards to health and safety, adequate training and working conditions, albeit not perfect, was built on the back of the actions of these activists.

My grandfather who was a shop steward used to say "The working man is his own worst enemy" . Today there are still those union officials that still embody these principles but sensibly want to improve the lot of the workers they REPRESENT and there are those who just see the system as a path to a easy life and to wield a bit of power, and you need not look any further than to the Thatcherite neo Stalinist regime currently running this country to see that.

I remember when working in the Wallsend ship yards, if you want to find a "shoppie" during the working day, then the Anson pub on Wallsend High Street, was the best place to find the majority of them. Being paid to sit in the pub for most of the day, why not, management paid for it as long as their demands went through come pay deal time or anything else management demanded for that matter. I remember those mass meetings, what a comical farce, votes where fiddled and management got what it wanted every time, there nearly was a riot, going on strike and by the end of it the deal was far worse than at the start, why bother in the first place a total waste of everyones time.

When Swans went into receivership it used to be a tradition of Price Waterhouse, I don't know if it still is now, that a company in their custody the employees got a hamper at Christmas. What did our glorious union officials do on our behalf as part of their policy to be as uncooperative with the receivers as possible, they put a block on it as a sign of protest, the first time a management offered the workers something with no strings attached, they put a bl**dy block on it, Price Waterhouse were flabbergasted, mind you that was only after the union guys got theirs!!!  >>:-(  <:(  >>:-(
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catengineman

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2009, 05:50:54 PM »

I am a bit tainted towards unions.
I was a member of TGWU, they called us out for  more pay, better this better that? we were working in Mobil oil's refinery at Coryton help to pay bills and bring up children (fat chance) Finally went back to our jobs with NO overtime allowed and nothing gained. I never recovered financially and ended up having my home repossessed.  so now I'll avoid paying unions to F*** me over. 

                         JUST MY OPINION

R,
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DickyD

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2009, 06:01:25 PM »

When I was truck driving I was in the TGWU [had to be to get into the docks] and our shop steward was a joke, he only stood for the job so he could get away with all the accidents he had and the cock ups he made. He was the type of bloke who would come out of the pay talks and tell us he had good news and bad news.
The bad news being that our wages were going to be cut by 5% and the good news being that he had got it backdated 12 months. {:-{
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2009, 06:36:40 PM »

When I had my job taken out from under me back in '90, I was "offered" a re-assignment involving an actual demotion which would, assuming I worked the full term that I signed up for, then lived my three score and ten, have resulted in the loss of about 30,000 (at 1990 prices) to my family.  My union took up the case, because it affected many of us up and down the country.  The chair of the tribunal, having weighed the evidence, and found the level of deception on the part of the management caused the entire lot of us nationally to be paid in perpetuity as if still in our previous grade.  There was talk of "A culture of corporate dishonesty".  If we had not been in a union, we could never, as individuals, have afforded the level of representation we got.
Around the same time, many mid level managers were tempted by personal contracts.  "Isn't this wonderful" they all said.  Not many of them said that when it came round to contract renewal time.  Needless to say, there was little sympathy but much amusement from those who had been labelled "scum" and "lowlives" by the failed would-be Fascists.  Occasionally it's good to see justice, for myself I would have preferred mercy, as it was I had some reasonable luck.
There are good unions and bad, as there are good employers and bad.  You really can't tar the entire of one side while declaring that the sun shines from the fundament of the other as a universal principle.
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catengineman

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2009, 07:17:47 PM »

I am on the "once bitten twice shy" side of the fence  :-))

I would not pay all that money to a union now though I know some who have benefited from being a 'union' member (It was just not for me, and it hurt)


R,
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Bartapuss

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Re: Are those Brussel B------s at it again ?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2009, 01:23:58 AM »

At one time one of the fundamental principles of union membership was "that union members should do their up most to find work for those members unlucky enough to be out of work". However this principle seemed to be lost upon some of the officials of the AEEU. Oh what a lovely union to be a part of, remember this was the same union that led the fiasco at Swan Hunter. A very long time ago I was working at Charles Parsons in Heaton on a temporary contract to start with which was going to be made permanent as they had just scored for a large order to build three power stations for India, this was great news for the firm as they were in a weakened state after a major project for Iraq was postponed then totally cancelled at the behest of the British and American Governments, even thought nearly all the major components being fully complete and in mid transit, due to the first gulf war. This new Indian order meant they had to take on more staff hence why I was there, however as work began to progress and the Indian government knowing what sort of shape Parsons was in, they first tried to change the terms of the contract to more favourable position to suit them, from what I was told at the time, they wanted Parsons to foot the build for the manufacture of the equipment and complete erection on site and once everything was up and running to their satisfaction they would then begin payments in installments. This was totally unacceptable to Parsons, they already had the fingers well and truly burnt before and could not possibly risk it again so as no compromise could be reached and a complete breakdown of negotiations the contract finally fell through, I believe the true reason was GE of America came in at the eleventh hour and undercut Parsons with a much cheaper price as I believe they went on to finally clinch a deal with India and did the contract.

That left yours truly and many others suddenly having no work to do but as a gesture of good will and it being early December when the fateful announcement was made, Parsons management would not renew our contracts after the Christmas holidays. However despite myself and the others set to have a most unhappy new year and being full paid up union members the bourgeoisie of the AEEU were having non of it and despite management assurances that we would do NO work whats so ever, they demanded we leave immediately, so there I was two weeks before Christmas no job no money but a newly acquired mortgage to deal with, thanks AEEU, I will never ever join a union again.
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