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Author Topic: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203  (Read 81561 times)

Greggy1964

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Hello Folks my name is Greg Bulmer,

I was once a member of Bridlington Model Boat club about 20 years ago when the lake was just a big muddy hole and was I apprentice scratch builder to Derek Stamper who taught me everything I know and Les Smith sailed a giant model of HMS Hood down at the Spa. I visited the Lake at Carnaby recently and I had forgotten how much I enjoyed being around like minded people and how much the place has changed.

I haven't built anything in years but the urge has bitten me again.

I have long admired the sleek Sailing Trawlers that sailed out of Lowestoft and Brixham in the early 1900's. I discovered Sailing Trawlers by Edgar J March ( isbn 978-0715347119) and to my delight I discovered detailed drawings of Master Hand along with others in the back of the book. Every scrap of timber that went into the ship is listed and dimensioned in great detail along with masts, rigging and sails. It's a scratch modelers dream!

I have long known that to get a sailing model to work it must be big. So I'm currently floating around 3/4" to the foot or 1" to the foot scale. The real ship was 78ft 9" in old money with a beam of 19ft. At 3/4" to the foot that would give a model length over all on hull of 59" and a beam of 14". Displacement of the real ship was 100 long tons so the model will displace in the order of 55lbs. At 1" to the foot the model will displace 130 lbs which is getting a little unwieldy though she would look real good on the water.

So far I have redrawn the lines at 3/4" to the foot on my skrieve board which was once my daughter’s wardrobe door but since her wardrobe is mainly on the bedroom floor she hasn't missed it! I have attached some photos of the line drawings for your pleasure. The last photo is one of only seven still in existance out of hundreds of these vessels still afloat.

I plan to use four separate winches on jib, foresail, mainsail and mizzen whereby each sail can be adjusted separately or the whole lot can be adjusted together so I'm working out the internal layout of the model to suit.

As the ship will be experimental to start with I'm going to build her keel and frames from 1/2" plywood with pine planking all encapsulated in a thin epoxy resin called sparcoat which will seal everything in. At the moment there are construction details and dimensions of components whizzing around in my head so progress is slow but I'll keep everyone posted.

Greg








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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 03:28:15 PM »

Icidently I have the hull line drawings of Master Hand at 1:20 scale drawn on draughting film with a hull lenght of 47" and beam of 11.5" which would give a model displacement of 28lbs if anyone would like to build this ship if 1:16 scale is too scary.

I built the hull 15 years ago at 1:20 from these drawings but sold it to a chappy from York much to my regret! Wonder if he finished her?

When I've finished the 1:16 scale drawing I'll make them available too! I would be great to rekindle the old smack races again if only in model form!

Greg
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Brooks

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 05:42:46 PM »

Greg, your ship should be beautiful :-)

re size: I have RC  12" hull topsail schooner, a 12" hull sandbagger, a 25" hull topsail schooner, and a 36" hull 4-masted barque. All will tack, wear, work to windward, reach, & run. My freesailer 15" hull brigantine and 8" hull sandbagger will work to windward, and proceed on the other points of sailing, though runs are difficult to sustain.  So, for my purposes, smaller vessels sail just fine. Bigger models are more impressive to see, perhaps, but cost you in transport, setup, launch, breakdown ...in short, all those non-water tasks that must be performed everytime you wish to sail.

But I wish you all the best with your build, and hope you will post lots of photos. For my slow dialup, could you cut them down in size as much as feasible and still retain all the detail you wish to show? The above photos were fine. Thanks.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 07:07:42 PM »

Hello Brooks,

Thanks for your comments and advice, it's much appreciated

I've already thought up transport.

She's going to have her own trailer rather like a tiny covered in horse box inside which will be a four wheeled launching dolly on which the ship will rest fully rigged. So it'll be a case of roll up to the lake in my car with her in tow, drop the tailgate and launch rather like my old sailing dinghy days. I agree I don't like messing about, just sail.

I take note about your download speed, I can cut the size down, also I will load them to flicker or some such site and leave a link here if that would help.

I intend to share my building experience here for the benefit of others as I go along hopefully.

I am pleased to hear your models sail well at the scale you use, it encourages me with my efforts at 1:16 scale though still toying with 1:12 scale!

Thanks
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cosmosman

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2009, 09:02:36 PM »

Hi Greggy1964,

I use Microstation CAD so I could draw the Hull lines at full size then print them out at whatever scale for you if thats any help.

Mike
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2009, 09:19:55 PM »

Hello Mike,

I confess I had considered using autocad and I might do it at some point.

But I come from old skool drawing office types using rotring ink pens and railway curves and then moved onto autocad later.

I use a variety of piano wire sizes to get the curves and hard dress makers pins driven into white melamine faced fibre board (the sort of stuff used for bedroom wardrobe doors is ideal) at the station points on my plans.

When I get things to fit fair I trace the lines onto draughting film and I use this to plot where water tight bulkheads, radio trays and the like are to go.

I guess I just enjoy the drawing as much as the building.
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cosmosman

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2009, 09:41:42 PM »

No problem. I started my career on a drawing board. Used to draw for hours,still do but on computer. I enjoy the accuracy of CAD drawing. Hope to see more of your drawings.
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tigertiger

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 03:14:18 AM »

What an absolutely splendid subject for a model.

Depending on the price, I would be interested in a set of plans.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2009, 01:09:02 PM »

Hello Folks,

Currently I have the hull lines at 1:20 scale which gives a hull length of 47.25" by 11.5" beam with a maximum draught aft of  6". Displacement will be in the order of 28lbs

It will also be available at 1:16 scale in a printable form when I get my finger out and trace the drawings above.

The drawings show profile, 1/2 plan and 1/2 end elevations from bow and stern. The lines are to outside of planking and show crown and edge of deck profile together with top of bulwark profile. Also the location of the masts are given at keel and deck level.

The drawings are suitable for experienced builders but I plan to give a blow by blow account of my 1:16 scale model over the comming months which will hopefully encourage inexperienced builders to tackle this ship also. We all started somewhere!

The drawing is on draughtmans plastic and is 56" x 23" in size and will come in a paper roll form. PM me to request a copy.

Basically as in the layout in the photo's above. No construction details are currently given but if you search for copies of Edgar J March's Sailing Trawler book can still be found but it'll set you back anywhere between £60.00 and £200.00 depending on condition as it is a rare collectable book.

The book gives historic details of how these sailing ships developed in form for the specific task of deep sea beam trawling and seine netting, and Master Hand was one of the last of the large wooden North Sea sailing trawlers built, she was at the pinnacle of development before the more efficient steam driven iron trawlers took over.

Happily the book is still available at your local library here in the UK at any rate.

The amazing thing is that in the index of this book are detailed drawings of every stick that went into this wooden ship together with  details of sails and rigging so a very accurate period model can be produced.

I would love to see a fleet of these beautiful ships brought back to life in model form.

My guess is that the hull form of this sailing trawler and the sailing rig will lend its self to a large scale model without external ballast to ruin it's profile. I would welcome discussions regarding this point. I have seen photos of what appear to be successful radio control models at a smaller scale so I'm hopeful.

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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 12:32:52 PM »

Just bought a plank of hardwood for the keel, stem and stern post and a sheet of 9mm exterior ply for the frames.

So were off!

I will endeavor to take as build photos :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2009, 12:54:36 PM »

We look forward to it.  :-)) :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 05:43:29 PM »

Well I had planned on planking my sailing trawler in pine as my budget is limited, however being a bit of a skip-oik I discovered an old oval oak table placed out to scrap.

On closer inspection, the entire thing was made of solid oak, the table top being 3/4" thick. A quick word with the former owner and it was mine!

I have a table top circular saw with a narrow tungsten tipped blade which sat nicely in the leg frame once I'd taken off the top. (See pics below).

I wanted to convert the table top into planks but wasn't sure if there was enough so I traced the bulkhead drawing and plotted out the plank runs based on my planking tutorial else where on the forum (see pics below)

A quick calculation and some careful cutting later I have the following planking stock, and no the photo below is not a kitchen table top - it's a ship yard in miniature :-)) {-) {-) O0

258ft linear feet off 3/16" x 3/4" = Main body of 2.5" (3/16" @ 1/16 scale) planking.

30ft linear feet off 3/16" x 1 1/2" = Guard boards plus no.2 to no. 8 planks from keel

22ft linear feet off 1/4 x 3/4" = Bilge strakes, 3 no. 3" x 8" strakes per side. Plus 4 no. 6" x 3" topside strakes per side
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 05:57:22 PM »

Forgot to add a closeup photo of the planking stock.

The added bonus is my kitchen erm shipyard has the wonderful aroma of freshly cut oak!  :-)) {-)
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dreadnought72

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2009, 10:18:32 AM »

Congratulations on your find - the wood looks lovely. (And what a better use for it than the skip!)

Will you need to soak/steam these timbers for the planking?

Andy
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tigertiger

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2009, 10:31:35 AM »

Congratulations on your find - the wood looks lovely. (And what a better use for it than the skip!)

Will you need to soak/steam these timbers for the planking?

Andy

I was thinking the same thing.
I would try bending some to see how they perform. They might be brittle.
Hopefully not.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 12:15:37 PM »

Hello Dreadnought72, Tigertiger,

In the world of Ikea and B&Q throw together furniture there seems to be no room for traditional solid wood furniture, if its not all white or all black it won't fit in todays modern living room so it ends up in the skip. Auction rooms are another source, ask about old broken furniture from house clearances.

I'm a self confessed skip oik! I can't help myself. For someone like me who has the small but able tools to convert timber into my modelling needs it can be a real boon. I can't go passed a skip without looking to see if there is anything useful to a scratch builder like me.

In modern money the planks are cut 5mm and 6mm depending on their intended use. Scale plank thicknesses are 4mm and 5mm. I deliberately cut them on the thick side so that I can sand or scrape away the 'threepenny bit' effect of flat planking on a curved hull and still maintain my plank thickness.

At these thicknesses I see no problem with bending the planks cold around the trawler hull, it is a long sleek shape and I forsee only the first few planks up from the keel with any real twist as they meet the vertical stern post. I have built this ship before at 1/20 scale and used Maple for the planks and had no difficulty.

An oak plank three foot length held at its ends will take a 90 degree twist without any splitting or cracking.

If needs be I have devised a steam box made from a 6" PVC drain pipe bunged at both ends and a steam wall paper stripper.

The Sapele hardwood I bought for the keel seems out of place now I have oak planks though!

I plan to put up a detailed photographic account as the build progresses now that I have a decent little camera good for close up stuff an inexpensive e-bay find! :-))
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dreadnought72

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 02:20:47 PM »

I plan to put up a detailed photographic account as the build progresses...

 :-))  O0   :-)  Looking forward to it very much!

Andy
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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 03:16:02 PM »

me too :-))
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Greggy1964

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Comming shortly
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2009, 01:00:53 AM »

Constructing the building board on which our trawler hull is to be built :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2009, 04:09:38 PM »

She's going to be a beast! O0 :-)) {-)

Here are a couple of photos of Master Hand's outline plotted on the building board, I can never really appreciate the hull shape until I do this and I like what I see.

Waaaaay over the other end of the photo is my Swan Vesta's for scale, Oh! and meet Rex, one of my monster German Shepherds, he's after my just eaten Greek yogurt! {-)

I dont smoke by the way, we have indoor moggies as well as dogs and the matches help get rid of the pog when they go digging in the litter tray! <*< >>:-( {-)
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2009, 04:32:12 PM »

For the eagle eyed perfectionists among us who have spotted the hull is not central on the building board :embarrassed:

The reason is that the melamine top was not perfectly straight. <*< >>:-(

I automatically assumed it would be as this stuff is machine made! Wrong! <:(

I had already plotted out the boat central before noticing the curve in the port edge of the board >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >:-o

And rather than redraw the boat I just planed the edge straight and so the hull is now a fraction off centre! heheheheeee ;)

A quick job with a hot iron and some melamine edging and Bob's your Uncle Fanny's your Aunt - all better . . . well sort of!

I'm more concerned that the board is perfectly flat and level :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2009, 11:47:24 PM »

I have got ahead of myself a bit, what follows is a detailed description of how I build the building board for this large model. :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2009, 12:13:24 AM »

What follows assumes you have an understanding wife  O0 or like me you are single  {-) {-)

No responsibility will be taken by the author for battered husbands as a result of following this help topic! ;) :-))

If you are lucky enough to have a fully kitted out workshop - forget what I just said! %) :-)) I'm aiming this at the kitchen table top builder!

A big scratch built model needs a big stable building base if we are to avoid building twists and kinks into our lovely new hull.

The hull of my Sailing Trawler is exactly 1500mm from stem to stern by 368mm beam so I chose a base of 1625mm by 380mm.

I leveled up my kitchen table by packing up the legs with thin cardboard and by using my long spirit level made sure the table was level length ways and width ways and on the diagonals so that I had a flat base on which construct the build board.

Take one length of white double faced melamine board (they only come in 2500mm lengths so I'm stuck with an off cut! >>:-( >>:-( )  by 12mm thick and a bunch of 25mm x 45mm clear straight softwood sufficient to form a stiffening perimeter and a cross brace and a box full of 1 1/4 x no. 6 wood screws. See photos below.

If your building board is clamped to a flat and level surface while you build the hull you could get away without this step, but I could pick up one corner of the board and I could raise it 5mm without lifting the other three corners which is no good. It needs to be stiff and level all ways.

Clamp one length of softwood down one long edge of the board with a G clamps at both ends and set up a taught cotton string line down the seam between the two parts. Go to the centre of the board and check to make sure the seam still follows the cotton string line. If it is bowed, put on a bit of pressure on the wood and board until the seam is under the cotton line and clamp it.

It is a good idea to pack up the cotton at each end with small bits of thin card, this lifts the string line off the wood surface a fraction avoiding the string line being fouled and giving a false reading, this ensures it is dead straight.

Check all along the string line until you’re happy that the string line says the seam is straight and then drill from the melamine side and screw down tight. I had two battery drills set up with a 3mm drill bit and the other with a driver bit to match the screw heads.

Repeat the above with the other long side.

Next, turn the job upside down and clamp to your level table top and fit the two end pieces of wood to form an open shallow box. While the job is clamped to the table, screw everything up tight so that it stays flat when it is lifted away from the table.

The cross brace is made by custom fitting it into your new shallow box with a halved joint at the centre. By plotting its position on the upper surface of the building board, it is screwed down tight from the top surface.

The photos below should clear up all of the above.

Turn the job right side up and with your long spirit level make sure every thing is level all ways and sight down the top edges to make sure they are straight.

We now have a solid and stiff board on which to build any number of future scratch built boat projects.

I would advise giving the wood frame and the exposed ends of the melamine board a lick or two of yacht varnish if it and the model are to be stored in the shed or garage to avoid changes of moisture in the atmosphere causing havoc with your new and flat board.

Next, using our trusty cotton string line again map out a centre line of the hull the full length of the board. My cotton string lines are simply made up with a loop at both ends, one I can hang on a pin in the edge of the board and the other supports a bicycle spoke hook on which I can hang small weights.

The weighted end of the string line hangs over the edge of the board and is allowed to swing free in the breeze and by weighting it to just below breaking point, it keeps the line taught and thus dead straight. We again use the little packing pieces at each end of the line to keep if from fouling the surface.

Set out the model on the building board centrally length and width ways and plot off the positions of each frame of the hull down the centre line of the board.

I do this using the old surveying trick of the three, four, five triangle. Using a set of compasses, plotting a 3, 4, 5 triangle always ensures the corner opposite the hypotenuse is a 90 degree angle. See sketch below

IMPORTANT!!!!  :police: <*< I'm using 12mm exterior plywood for my frames.

The frames from the mid ship section to the bow are set up with their STERN facing faces on the frame position lines just marked on the building board - see sketch below.

The frames from the mid ship section to the stern have their BOW facing faces set up on the frame lines on the building board.

A  little later in the build, just before we start planking, the frames are going to be faired so that their edges run in the direction of the planking.
The planks will sit flush with each faired frame edge providing a good gluing and nailing surface.

We are now ready for setting up the frames on the building board.

Next chapter – marking out, cutting out and setting up the hull frames on our shiny new building board.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2009, 01:23:34 AM »

At last! :o

I'm cutting wood that is actually going into the hull as frames!

Though I must confess a slight set back in choosing my plywood, I ASKED for 2 good faced exterior grade 12mm plywood. What I got was interior inferior 1 good faced plywood that was so full of internal voids as to render it useless! >>:-( >>:-( :((

It'll teach me to look closer at what I buy in future! :embarrassed:

First though we need to transfer the frame shapes from our plans, I use cereal box cardboard because it is good quality and free :-)) to make templates.

I lay a piece of card under my plan and prick through with a sharp compass point into the cardboard, closely spaced on tight curves and wider apart on straighter areas following the chosen frame outline. A sharp pair of scissors and a bright lamp allows you to split the holes in the card marking the frame outline while cutting out.

Sure with this method your plans end up with a few tiny holes but to my mind the plans are a means to an end.

I only bother making half frame templates because when setting out on the plywood used for the frames I simply set out a centre line, trace one side and flip the template over and trace the other side of the frame.

Where frames are intended to have cut out centres to allow for access and to allow for radio and battery bays, set your compasses to the frame width you desire (mine are 25mm to allow for nailing planks to the frames) and run the point along the template edge while keeping the compasses at 90 degrees to the template edge.

You should end up with a line drawn 25mm in from the template edge. This is also useful where your plans are to outside of planking, set the compasses to your plank thickness and trace around as before. Trim to the new line and you have a template to inside of planking. :-))

Don't cut out the hole of the centre of the templates, this will cause them to become floppy and inaccurate, make short cuts with a sharp Stanley knife along the inside frame line and two other cuts on each to make triangle cut outs. Trace the inside frame line onto the plywood at these cutouts and just join up the dashes your left with. See photo below.

I have drawn the lines Master Hand with the frames vertical when she floats at her waterline, she has a deep heeled hull i.e. the heel of the keel under the rudder is deeper than at the bow. It just means that when I build in trays and platforms for radio gear etc. the frames will be vertical when the hull is afloat making the job easier.

Knowing this I have marked on each frame the load water line and also I have marked on the drawings a line parallel to this above the profile plan that represents the building board surface. Mark the load water line onto each half template frame and nick the template at the centre line and edge of frame. When transferring to the plywood, nick through the load water line onto the wood surface at centreline and edge when tracing each half.

This serves two purposes, it ensures I have traced each half of the frame accurately because all nicks made in the wood (two with each half template remeber) will form a straight line if I've done things properly and the load water line thus drawn will give me an accurate datum when setting up the frames on the building board.

I like my hulls built a distance away from the building board surface to allow me to gain access inside the hull while planking. It's no problem getting your sticky fingers in there with only a few planks on, but how do you wipe away the fresh glue squeezed out inside the hull when you down to the closing planks? Make provision for it!

The hull will be built bottom up and at such a height off the board that I can easily gain access inside with my hands with the water line level with the building board surface and 162mm distant.

Next time, marking out the keel and cutting the rabbet to accept the plank ends and guard boards.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 01:49:04 PM »

A word on power tools for the budget minded like me.

Scour the car boot sales at weekends, especially the bigger ones. I knew that I had an up and comming model boat to build and with this in mind set out for some heavy artillery! O0

My first find was an old chap who was giving up woodworking as he was getting on a bit and wanted to travel Europe in his camper van. He had a whole small workshop of tools laid out and I walked away with a 14" throat burgess bandsaw for £25! :-))  :-) I'd have bought all his tools if I'd had enough money!

My next find was the small circular saw table  seen in my photos back up this build log, I bought it for £5 as the blade was shot but a visit to ebay saw me with a new tungsten tipped blade and I was in business.

Next was a power planer for £7 with new spare blades, this I'm going to convert into a planer thicknesser by using it sole facing upwards. I'm going to set up some adjustable height rollers that will hold the wood for my planks to it's surface so that I can feed my new planks through the blades and get a constant even plank thickness. All covered over to save my fingers of course!

My last find was a rather neglected Nutool 18" motor powered scroll saw that weighs a ton as it's cast iron I think! for £20! The face plate is rusty and the little blower doobly is broken but who cares! It cuts tight curves in plywood lovely :-))

The point I'm trying to make is that blokes who want to have a go at scratch built models but are afraid that kitting out a workshop will cost the earth, can do so and get their mits on some useful portable power tools for their kitchen table top workshop for little money if they keep their eyes open.

Spot the lego set square on the bandsaw! :-))

My new little 2nd hand workshop set me back less than 75 quid spread over the summer months and now I'm in the model boat building business again after a 15 year gap <*<
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