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Author Topic: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203  (Read 103492 times)

Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #100 on: January 24, 2011, 10:45:04 am »

I've decided to pull Master Hand out of the loft, dust off the cobwebs and continue with the building of her hull.

The Holly log I cut up into planks 14 months ago to make the horn timbers and fashion frames has been drying out on the top of my kitchen cupboards next to the central heating system. If its not dried out now it never will be! {-)

Actually the Holly planks have twisted and warped a tad but I made the boards thick enough to take this into account so I can plane them flat and true again.

I've been contemplating the internal structure of the stern a while now but constructional details are sketchy at best and I've had a tough time finding anything on the tinternet! I confess it's proved a sticking point in my progress.

My learned colleague Neil (The Duke of Brabant) discussed his ideas here last April during his beautiful dock yard model build of Master Hand (How have got on Neil? any progress photos?) see posts 88 through 94 here.

Are there any shipwrights who restore old wooden ships here who could shed any light? Or does anyone know of someone who knows a friend who has a mate who's a shipwright that I might pick his brains?

I'm contemplating building a large dock yard type model of the stern in pine so I can get things clear in my own head. Although my model of master hand is going to be a working model and I only need to represent external appearances only, I would like to get things right. :-))

Discussion welcome %)
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dreadnought72

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2011, 08:17:46 pm »

Great to hear of impending progress, Greg.  :-))

I doubt the holly will have suffered one bit for being warm and dry(ing) for a few months.

And, after a hiatus, there's things happening at this end of the country, too!  O0 More soon!

Andy
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boater12

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2011, 08:37:12 pm »

Is this the fellow in question ;

http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/small/item/GTJ75122/

Jim.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2011, 12:50:28 pm »

Hello Jim, yes that appears to be a model of Master Hand :-))

Hello Andy, well I've kept everyone on tenterhook long enough {-)

I've done a bit of digging and I have come up with a couple of photographs of Master Hand in the twighlight of her life.

She was re registered as BM 43 and convereted to a motor trawler by a company called Tamar Trawlers of Cremyll



She fished right up untill 1971 and then decomissioned.



There were attempts to restore her hull but by this point her timbers were too far gone to match the pocket books of the would be restorers.



She was stripped of all fittings and abandoned as a rotting hulk on a beach near Torpoint and remained there untill the late 1970's



When she was finally broken up  :((

A sad end to a graceful little ship in my view
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2011, 03:04:28 pm »

On a lighter note . . . . . .

My model of Master Hand has languished in my loft for the last 14 months and as I said I brought her down recently and she's now resting among saw dust and shavings on my kitchen table once more to the accompanied groans from my teenage daughters! O0 {-)

There was a mild drama on setting her down on the table because the building board as substantial as it, which unlike the standard European banana was nicely curved along its length! {-)

The whole thing had hogged along its length by a good 5mm!

I'd assumed that if I rested her in the crook of the roof frames in my loft, everything would be straight foolishly relying on the roof beams of a 1970's constructed house would be even and true!

Silly me! O0 {-)

Fear not! Because everything is screwed together only and the keel has yet to be glued to the frames, I simply took the support beams off of the underneath of the building board and rescrewed everything down straight again with bigger and more plentiful screws, plus I doubled up these beams to hopefully prevent this happening again.

Amazingly the keel had refused to bow and remained as straight as a die, just shifting itself in its slots in each frame to suit.

On with the building process! I have now formed the shape of the quarter timbers in the corners of the ship.

The stern boards on the counter run athwartships, with 4No. 10" wide planks from the knuckle on the transom downwards. The planks run into the front edge of the bottom most one causing a bout of head scratching as to the run of the planks at the corners!

Photos to follow when I can find my camera :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2011, 08:32:58 pm »

Master Hand's rear . . . 

The story so far.



In the photo above, the white cardboard represents the 4 10 inch stern boards and the grey cardboard represents the transom planks. These appear to be cut on a curve and you can just make the pencil lines plotting them out along with an attempt to board out the transom with straight boards which just doesn't work out!

This means that the original boards must have been cut from an oak log at least 22" in diameter with a curve radius of about 12 feet and 13 feet from end to end! :o



Another photo from a lower angle, this playing around with cardboard templates gave me a clue as to how all these boards and the planking would come together in the corners of the stern. From a shipwrights point of view he has to be able to caulk all the seams to make them watertight.

I want to plank my model as acurrately as possible because at this scale (1/16th) the plank seams are going to show and I want to get it right.



I cut a board reperesenting the deck from an old plywood drawer bottom which I've propped up from the building board to the correct height and done the same for the Taffrail (the curved board that runs across the transom which follows on from the rail cap on top of the bulwarks).



Here you can see thin wood templates for the quarter knees and 1st horn timbers.

These two temporary boards give me a fixed reference from which to build the stern framing timbers, and using lots of card board templates and fiddling about gives me an accurate idea in 3D what we're about.



Here is the roughed out starboard quarter timber in place ready for shaping to its finished form.
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derekwarner

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2011, 10:11:04 pm »

The lines look fine Greg :-))....but must remember to balance the inbuilt stresses by keeping the runners & hence the planking even on PORT & STDB........the moggy looks pleased too   {-)....Derek
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2011, 12:34:49 am »

Eye Capt'n :-))

I'm cutting blanks for both starboard and portside horn timbers starting off as one piece and then splitting them into matching pairs using my bandsaw.

More photos.



Here is the starboard quarter timber cut to its final shape.



A practice of the top most plank in the hull is fitted and its end where it butts up against the bottom most stern board can be seen. The other three topside planks will be similar at their stern ends and will look rather like the staves of a barrel as they transit around the tight curve in the corners of the hull.



In this plan view photo it can be clearly seen how the quarter timber transits from quarter round in section at the fashion frame to almost flat at the arch boards.



You can just make out that I've started to cut the mortices for the last two stanchions supporting the bulwarks in outboard side of the quarter timber just to add a little distraction to my work! :o

The quarter timber, 1st and 2nd horn timbers in place and cut to their almost final shape, when I come to fit the stern boards, I'll trim them one final time.



This photo shows the pretty curve the stern boards will take, how can you tell my plane blade needs a sharpen? %) {-)

The eliptical stern was a clever way of preventing a following sea comming on board while the trawl net was on the sea bed. The trawler would squat down on her stern while towing the heavy trawl.

The waves would hit the steep angle of the very bouyant transom, lifting the ship and rolling under her rather than shipping green seas on board.



The horn timbers are a tricky shape to make as they are a sort of parrellogram in section, if you look closely I have plotted the rectangular blank on the underneath of the taffrail and the outboard faces of the horn timbers are bevelled to match the curve of the transome and the inboard faces match these to take the transit rail which lives against the inboard end of the horn timbers half way between the deck and the taffrail.



Here are the drawings of the stern so that you can see what I'm ranting on about! :-)) {-)



here is one of the horn timbers clamped in my makeshift wooden vice, this gadget is great for holding long fiddly parts for planing and chiselling. Good for planing the edges of planks too :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2011, 06:48:00 pm »

You know how little things please little minds? O0

Well I was reading E.J.M's book last night for the millionth time but because I was focused on stern frames etc. I spotted something on the last descriptive page in the Master Hand survey section at the back of the book, and I noticed E.J.M had very kindly measured each plank that made up the transom, they go (from taff rail to knuckle) 11" wide, 10", 9", 10" & 10", and below the knuckle 4 planks 12" wide.

After spending the wee small hours converting my workshop into something resembling a kitchen again, I sloped off to bed tired but wondering why Master Hand's stern was that particular curve and shape, and also pondering on the shape of the piece of timber that the upper boards were hewn from.

I figured the Master Shipwright/Yard owner would have been a shrewd and wiley character, always looking for ways to kill a ton of birds with one stone. . . . . . . . .

Which is why I found myself back in my kitchen . . erm workshop Sunday morning at 7am! :o

You see the stern design is very buoyant, but it goes deeper (scuse pun!) than that, because Mr. Shipwright would have had to stand or fall by his buying of materials and the quality that he and his work force produced. Prospective owners would have had to be confident that the ship they bought from the shipyard would carry them safe across the waves and do its designated job well.

I've mentioned earlier in a recent post that the upper stern board would have to have come from the same curved oak log and I think I've proved it. Which is why I was bevering away so early this morning!

The oak log in question, I'm sure would have been about 16" to 20" in diameter and on a curve about 10 feet radius and 13 feet end to end.

I've always wondered why the Taffrail Rail is on a tighter curve than the outer edge of the arch boards? Why not have them on the same curve and make the job of building easier?

Well I think I've found the reason, and it's in the shape of the 5 boards that make up the upper stern and it goes back to our wiley Master Shipwright.

I'll let my photos explain . . . . . .



Since finding this new information I re-cut the stern templates plotting the planks accurately.



Here are the individual upper transom plank templates.



And here's what's interesting . . . . . .



My little 7am on a Sunday morning experiment supports the idea that all 5 planks could have come from the same curved oak log which is why I think Mr. Shipwright was a clever chappy in designing Master Hands rear end - economy of timber.  :-))

I discovered that with the planks being 2 1/2" thick and allowing for 1/2" for cutting planks from log and planing out saw marks - say 1/2" wasted between planks, they could all have been cut from a log of section 16" x 18" :-))

After all, when the jobs done and the ship is handed over for a stack of money you'd think he'd like to walk away with a few coppers in his pocket! O0 {-)

I'm fascinated by these little tricks and techniques that these old boys have taken to their graves, sadly the knowledge is all but lost but for the works of Edgar J March and my fellow model boat builders that keep these ships alive. :-)



Another reason for doing the stern templates again is that the ones I did before turned out to be skew-wiffy i.e. not a mirror image on the centre line - my fault!

I was being lazy! In the photo above you can just make out a red cotton string line running from the heel of the keel down past the stern to the centre line of the building board. I know I tent to go to the far end of a jam tart {-) but I do like things to be as accurate as I can make them.

E.J.M. helps me with this with all the tons of measurements bless him!

Master Hand was a beefy ship and my model of her is no less so! To scale those 12" wide by 2 1/2" thick boards on the lower stern equate to 19mm wide by 4mm thick! :o :-))

P.S. All my templates will be made available to those wishing to build this model to take some of the pain of scratch building a ship like this. :-))
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dreadnought72

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2011, 11:04:08 pm »

 :-))

Economy of materials must've been high up in the minds of those building commercial vessels like this.  O0

Lovely work.

Andy
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2011, 11:52:02 pm »

If I've done my job right . . . . . . . . .

each stern frame component on the starboard side should be an exact mirrored pair with its portside component  :-))



Here looking from the stern towards the bow



Family photo composition  {-)

Final final shaping when bunging the planks on!
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #111 on: February 01, 2011, 12:00:10 am »

 <*< NEWS FLASH! <*<

All work in the ship yard was suspended today  . . . . . . . . . . . .

on account of feline giganticus taking up residence in the stern :o  >>:-(



Work will hopefully resume tomorrow when he gives up his perch! O0 {-) {-) {-)

All them late nights pondering on how that stern would come together . . . . . . .

But when it boils down to it and you get down to brass tacks



Things seem sort of . . . .



obvious really!

Them there shipwright certainly knew what they were doing.

I take me hat off to em O0

Makes the job of following in their foot steps by a numpty like me possible! {-) :-)
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #112 on: February 02, 2011, 01:11:54 am »

Question?

If your a complete and utter numty like me  %) and you've been having a real bad time eyeballing some stern frames in a simple looking but subtly really complicated but pretty elliptical stern on a ship you'd like to model . . . . . . . . . . .

How do you create the stern frames so that its nice and easy to do, but it looks as though some zen model boat builder type has put it together?

Easy!

You cheat!



Its a lot of work but what you do is run some pine through a handy desk top circular saw, creating some 5mm thick by 15mm strips   :-)) . . . . .



and set them up . . .   two . . one either side of your prospective horn timbers . . . . .



Then you make yourself a flexible sander doofer like so . . . . . .



Actually two layers of 1mm birch ply glued together with grip blocks at either end and some P60 grit glass paper super glued to the underside . . . .

(use the missuses best hair cutting scissors to trim the glass paperand end up in the divorce courts! be warned! heee) <*< {-)

And sand away till all is nice and smooth and curvey . . . .



The idea being that if you've failed miserably to eyeball these horn frames accurately and wasted a whole bunch of time and wood in the process . . .



Its time to get down and dirty!

Honestly? O0

I've been having a real hard time with these seeminly simple shapes, but its been hours and valuable wood wasted!

This new idea is to set up thin sacrificial frames made from cheap throwaway pine de-marking each side face of the 6 horn frames . . .

Slap some horn frame blanks in between each set and whittle away till they all match.

If you refer back to the stern frame plan in post 107 you will see that the horn timbers are 5" on the side and the four outer ones are 5 1/2" wide and the two centre ones are 6" wide but each pair are increasingly trapezoidal in section the further away from the centre line.

Nightmare! :((

This way we whittle away at the outside surfaces until they match the pre formed sacrificial side pieces, then the inboard faces of the horn timbers are 5" (8mm at 1/16th scale) inboard of this.

Perfect!

Then what we do is remove each sacrificial frame and replace it with filling timbers to match the newly correctly shaped horn timbers!

Watch this space :-))
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Hammer

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #113 on: February 02, 2011, 12:26:12 pm »

Well done Greggy :-)) I did my trawler in much the same way. Except I made the horn and stanchions in one piece. I also fitted the rudder box first. R.G.Y.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #114 on: February 03, 2011, 02:31:26 pm »

How can a bloke expect to get owt done  when there's trip hazards like these laying around?

%)

 {-)

Rex (the one in the back ground) is steadily being buried in shavings as I'm planing a horn timber! :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #115 on: February 03, 2011, 11:15:15 pm »

Stern frames done  :-)) :-)



Just the filling timbers to knock out . . . . .

The pencil line sections above are 1" spacings aft of the fashion frame and are so that I could take cardboard templates off. I used my vernier calipers to scribe the offsets from the forward face of the fashion frame for accuracy.

The idea being that I am now going to take out the sacrificial pine frames and replace them with said filling timbers and the templates will help me keep the nice curves I've worked so hard to create.

Plus they will be useful for others to take the pain out of building this pretty stern in the future. :-))



I've attempted to plank the upper counter with straight grained planks cut to the curved templates I've taken off. . . . . . but even when steamed they split along the grain  >>:-(

Purists would call me but I'm going to use some 1mm birch plywood I have, four laminations per plank will make up the required scale thickness, I could sheet the stern in one go as the shape develops out flat neatly but as I said earlier I want the plank seams to show.

It's a lot of faffing I know but I'm unlikely to find a seasoned log on a 10 inch radius to cut planks with the grain running with the curve, though it would be nice!

Donations or suggestions gratefully received {-)

Nearly ready for the bit I look forward to most . . . . .

Planking the hull  :-)
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #116 on: February 05, 2011, 07:46:16 pm »

I have all the filling frames in now on the port side and I've come to the centre section of the stern, and now its time I think to build the rudder trunk . . . . . .



I carved the rudder trunk aperture carefully from a block of pine, taking the shape partly from the drawings and partly from the hull in front of me to get the correct shape. Its actually a quadrant of a circle allowin the rudder to pivot 45 degrees either side of centre. In real money there are 6 no. 5" planks around the arch and two 12" boards forming the sides.

The mold was first carved to a quardarnt and then the 6 planks were marked off, and using a chisel 6 flats were carved along the quarter cylinder for the planks to sit on.

Then it was a case of try fit - carve a little - try fit again with each little plank till they all fitted snugly. Oh the joys of scratch building! O0 {-)



I took hold of some oak planking stock to plank the aperture blank as depicted in E.J.M's plans, but not before I cellotaped part of a Morrisons carrier bag around the mold to prevent gluing everything to it.



I use Cascamite or as its called these days Polymite, as I'm familiar with it in my modelling escapades from the past and its a good glue for our purposes.

And it don't stick to Morrisons carrier bags neither!:-))

I use soft steel pins to hold everything in place for gluing ( they're all bent and twisted because I accidentally dropped the thing and then stood on it! And yes I know it looks like something straight out of a Beano comic! :o {-) ) and then bind the whole lot in a great length of elastic tape, this make an excellent flexible clamp which pulls everything tight but we can get away with this with a solid wood mold O0



When everything is set, the mold pops out and the process of fitting to the hull commences.



If I've got everything correct it should slide down the stern post and just squeeze between the inner horn timbers ok2



And I can continue working across the stern filling everything in.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2011, 12:07:10 am »

I've spent all evening just twiddling with the rudder trunk to get it to fit nice and I've trimmed it near to its finished shape . . .



It is proud of the stern frames as the planks would have been flush with the out side of the hull on the original so that the seam with the hull planks could have been caulked.



I will do the final trim once the hull planks are in place.



Here's a shot up the rudder trunk . . . . .



Here is a couple of the stern post at deck level where the trunking protrudes 1" above deck level.



Again this area will be trimmed when the deck is complete :-))

Back to stern framing O0 I'm keen to get started on hull planking proper! :-)
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tigertiger

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2011, 09:07:26 am »

Great job on the rudder trunk.

A snippet that I read somewhere that may be of interest.
The parts of the trunk were tapered and formed like a barrel. The main  reason for the taper is that the pieces can be rammed home tight to seal them.

Another piece of useless information.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2011, 02:45:22 pm »

Hi Tigertiger,

How wooden ships were put together without the aid of superglues and epoxy resins is a fascinating subject all of its own! :-))

The timbers around the rudder trunk on Master Hand are massive and the parts of the trunk are 3" thick which supports what you say O0

And I'm guessing they might also have treated the seams between each trunk 'stave' with a layer of 'fear naught' tarred paper as some construction yards used on the keel scarf.
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Hammer

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #120 on: February 06, 2011, 09:03:59 pm »

Greggy, in answer to your E-MAIL, I did get the control linkage under the deck. But as I have said before I cheat. %) Unlike yourself!  I will remove the hatch and post a photo tomorrow. In the mean time here is a description. My rudder stock is from 1/2" ali rod, from the keel to just below deck level. A 3/32" wide slot is cut down from the top to a 1/4" below the bottom of the rudder box. And 1/4" below this flats filed from each side leaving 1/4" in the center. A setscrew through the keel tapped into the center of the rod forms the bottom bearing. The rudder hinges are dummies.  :o The top bearing is a plumbing olive epoxied in the bottom of the rudder box. This also helps keeps the water out, as the box has to be cut away on one side above this, to take the control arm. The arm is a short bit of bicycle spoke fattened on the end and a hole drilled to take a clevis, the threaded end is tapped in the side of the stock. The length is critical as the angle swings the arm up to the deck and down to the hull. The reason for the 3/32" slot and the flats, an expanding rudder is fitted to improve sailing along with a drop center plate, operated only when in the water. (so don't tell anyone) :-X To finish the allusion a wooden rudder post and tiller is epoxied in to the top 1/4" of the slot. In your case I think the tiller could be lashed ether side to the bulwarks then run down below deck to a servo. This would be correct as the tiller would be lashed quite often.  Geoff R.G.Y
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #121 on: February 06, 2011, 09:44:22 pm »

Hello Geoff,

Thank you for your detailed answer, I look forward to those photos.

My ship is at a larger scale so I have a tad more space but I like your inventive solution, but this will mean me cutting into my rudder trunk. {:-{ I hadn't considered the lashed tiller approach, but you're right.

In bad weather the tiller would be lashed so I could get away with this approach. I like it! :-))

Though the under deck approach would be tidier, I'll have to wait until the hull is right way up %)
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #122 on: February 07, 2011, 12:03:33 am »

At last! %%

The last filling frame is in and the stern framing is complete . . . .

Well just a couple of quick jobs to do



The quarter timbers need the mortice's cutting to take the last bulwark stanchions. I've made lots of saw cuts because this helps prevent splitting as I'm chiselling out the waste



Which just falls out and saves a lot of work. :-))



All done :-)



Pop them back in their homes . . .



You may notice I've cut back the sacrificial frames at the upper transome area exposing the stern faces of the horn timbers, this is to allow me to glue the upper stern board in place while hopefully preventing me gluing the throwaway frames in too!

The false taff rail will be chucked too eventually but it and the sacrificial frames will play one last role in supporting the stern frames whilst bending on the stern boards.

And the other little job is to scribe at 25mm intervals across the stern frames to enable me to check the symmetry of the stern using half section cardboard templates.



Its a simple job of flipping it over an comparing starboard and port and tweaking things with judicial fine glass papering until each side matches not forgetting to check longitudinally also . . . .

which leads me to one final step before planking and that is fairing up the rest of the hull frames in readiness for planking.

The reason I've gone to so much trouble framing the stern is two fold, first it's what attracted me to Master Hand in the first place - I do like a shapely stern ;) and second is the fact that I'm going to use oak for the hull planking (refer back to posts 11 through 15 here).

The planks will be to scale, and in section are approximately 9mm by 4mm and as the stern is so shapely I'm going to need a lot of frame material to nail and glue em to! :o :-))

Watch this space :-))
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Hammer

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #123 on: February 07, 2011, 02:19:29 pm »

Greggy, Sorry no nails in my hull all cocktail stick trenails. <: P1 Two screws removed from under grating, pull toung from under cover board. P2 The hatch, bowden cables operate controls, the fule pipe takes the mizzin sheat. Note the window rubbers around the edge for water proffing. P3 the rudder as seen out of water. P4 rudder extended. P5 the center hatch. P6 the deck back together. Geoff R.G.Y.
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Greggy1964

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Re: 3/4" to the foot model of Lowestoft Sailing Trawler Master Hand LT1203
« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2011, 06:19:06 pm »

Hello Geoff

Thank you for the photos and for taking an interest in helping me out, it's much appreciated. :-))
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