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[Tester]

Hi

I'm thinking of trying a 2.4Ghz set (cheap one) for sailing and was wondering how people have the sail control set up.

Assuming a simple 2 channel set up, sails and rudder, do people use ratchet or self centering or just a loose stick.

All thoughts welcome

Richard

[tigertiger]

I use self centering.

Reason?
The metal spring steel strip needed to convert to ratchet did not come with the radio. Dumb really they only cost pennies. And I cannot buy one in China (where I live).
As I am not looking for micro control, it does the job for me. And by using the trim settings, I have have most points of sail covered so no biggy for me.

[Islander1951]

I remove the spring to leave the stick loose, I don't want the stick to be constantly fighting me trying to go to the centre position.
I also put a glob of epoxy putty on the ends of the sticks, smoothed off; far more comfortable.   

[Jimmy James]

Made My own ratchets out of a bit of brass, only takes 5 min to make and fit----But then I use Fleet or Hi Tec T/X don't know about other types ===I only use self centering for the rudder
Freebooter

[tony23]

Hi Richard,
              All the IOM racers I know in the UK and Europe use the throttle stick with either a ratchet fitted or removed usually with the stick down (throttle Closed) the sail should be pulled in, the (throttle up) the sail fully out. 

[tony23]

I use self centering.

Reason?
The metal spring steel strip needed to convert to ratchet did not come with the radio. Dumb really they only cost pennies. And I cannot buy one in China (where I live).
As I am not looking for micro control, it does the job for me. And by using the trim settings, I have have most points of sail covered so no biggy for me.

I cannot understand how you can use self centrering where is the sail position when you let go of the stick?

[tigertiger]

I cannot understand how you can use self centrering where is the sail position when you let go of the stick?

I tend not to let go of the stick.
If I do let go of the stick, with the trim full back (in) the sails are at about a quarter out. With the trim full forward (out) the sails are a little over half out. And by playing with the trim, all points in between.

The sail setting is important but not critical.
I have sailed somebody else's boat on one channel only (rudder), with the sails being fixed/set at about half out. It sailed OK, but would not win any races. It would not sail close to the wind either. Tacking was possible, if a good head of speed could be mustered first, but wearing was the norm.

[Tester]

Thanks for all the input, I tend to use a "loose" stick but do tend to catch it and knock it so I think I might try a ratchet this time.

As an aside I was looking at the Micro magic racing and wondered how the Jib tweaker is set up

Richard

[MikeK]

As already said most racing skippers do as SpamCanMan says (interesting name by the way !) Besides the risk of accidently knocking the stick if no ratchet fitted, after a using the ratchet method for a while one instinctively knows how many clicks felt through the finger tips coincides roughly with where the sails are. Without the ratchet the stick feels very vague.
Still doesn't help me to win many (if any !) races though 

Mike

[triumphjon]

hi , im also useing the ratcheted operation on my tx , as im useing a plannet t5 ive set the radio so the rudder & sail control is on just the right stick ! its working for me as this is my first attempt at sailing ( a kysoho seawind )

[malcolmfrary]

If using a proportional winch or servo like the vast majority of racers, a loose or ratcheted stick is better.  If its a non proportional one (i.e. the control just tells it to wind in or out) centring is best, since you just need to let go the stick to stop winding.

[BlueWotsit]

I tend not to let go of the stick.
If I do let go of the stick, with the trim full back (in) the sails are at about a quarter out. With the trim full forward (out) the sails are a little over half out. And by playing with the trim, all points in between.

The sail setting is important but not critical.
I have sailed somebody else's boat on one channel only (rudder), with the sails being fixed/set at about half out. It sailed OK, but would not win any races. It would not sail close to the wind either. Tacking was possible, if a good head of speed could be mustered first, but wearing was the norm.

TT, do you not find keeping hold of the stick all the time infact keeps your servo in an active situation all the time and thus diminishing the battery run time ?

When out of curiosity I tried this with an ordinary non converted transmitter on the test bench, the servo was continually humming when I had pressure on the stick.

[alan colson]

I have used ratchet and loose stick in the past, but have opted for ratchet. This is of course my personal favourite, I find the control easier.
Alan

[tony23]

hi , im also useing the ratcheted operation on my tx , as im useing a plannet t5 ive set the radio so the rudder & sail control is on just the right stick ! its working for me as this is my first attempt at sailing ( a kysoho seawind )

I don't know how your doing with the controls on one stick but I would suggest to get out the habit and change to rudder on the other stick that way you can always sail somebody elses boat and vice versa 

[Netleyned]

Get the cheapest Giant Cod 4 Ch 2.4GHz Set
Left Stick Up/Down Ratchet -Sail winch/servo
Right Stick L/R Self Centering - Rudder
Simples

Ned

[tigertiger]

TT, do you not find keeping hold of the stick all the time infact keeps your servo in an active situation all the time and thus diminishing the battery run time ?

When out of curiosity I tried this with an ordinary non converted transmitter on the test bench, the servo was continually humming when I had pressure on the stick.

I am no expert, but I would have thought that even on the ratchet it would be active.
As it is I get about 8-9 hours sailing out of 4 Duracel AA batts.

[Greggy1964]

As I'm not specifically a 'yachtie' my approach is a little unconventional . . . .

In my post here http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20883.0  I plan to use modification described here on my Master Hand build.

In reply #1 the sketch shows the circuit layout and the notches cut in the ratchet wheels inside the transmitter, each stick up notch represents one sail control sheet out and the corresponding stick down notch represents the same sail sheet in.

A brass tap with a kink in it's end finds each notch and its location is positively felt by your thumbs on the stick. I keep the centralising spring as when the stick is released each sail stays in its current position until a signal is given to move sheet in or out.

I plan my LH stick up & down to control jib and foresail and RH stick to control main and mizzen sails and left/right on the right stick will control rudder.

Obviously with this setup there is a brief movement at the servo winch as the transmitter stick passes the first notch (say jib) on its way to the foresail control (2nd notch) but the jib winch movement is tiny, of course you can build in a time delay circuit on the switch board in the boat (see drawing post #3) to avoid this but I've found it unnecessary.

This set up allows individual sail control and a notch at stick full up or fully down will give command to all sail winches controlled by that stick to let fully out or fully in and the sails winches will continue to that position irrespective of their current position.

I've used this setup to control foresail, main and mizzen using an old Acoms 27 Mhz 2 channel rig with 4 notches on the LH transmitter stick either side of centre with great success.

This later modification gave the following . . . . . 1st notch up was foresail winch out, 2nd was main winch out, 3rd was mizzen winch out and fully up was all sails winch out and down stick was the opposite.

Of course I had no experience of conventional systems so this setup didn't give me any problems.

[Roadrunner]

I'm not using a 2.4 ghz for my yacht, im stuck with 27mhz no real reason for not changing just don't want to spend at the moment 

My yacht has a standard servo for rudder and a servo winch for the main boom and jib, run off 4 AA's get around 4 hours or so from them before death occurs, normally i get bored before the battery's die!

I have a ratchet system on the throttle of my TX, full back is boom and jib in tight, half way (neutral is both full out) i have a little tab of plastic card stuck on the inside of the throttle to remind me (or stop) me letting out more line then needed, and jamming the Jib up on the rails i have on the yacht.
Although nothing wrong with the Winch i think perhaps my yacht would benefit more from a standard servo arm in this case, one of those things i will look at once the yacht takes a bit more wear and is in need of an overhaul, this will probably allow me to use all the of the throttle control rather then just half, that the issue i have foudn with the servo winches ( well in my case) it gives quite a lot for a small distance, its more suited for a much larger yacht possibly IOM up to 6 footers, mine being just shy of 80cm ... to much , but that was what was supplied with the kit.

I find the ratchet system very good as it becomes literally one hand sailing until i need to tack, also helps with not having to constantly keep the throttle in position like many sprung tx that sometimes are used, after a good hour of sailing it becomes hard on the fingers!

[triumphjon]

im sailing a 1 meter seawind and a wee nip , using two planet txs , both of which are set up with the rudder and sail arm on the same stick , the sail arm is via a ratcheted stick . my servos are a futuba sail arm , plus a standard 3003 for the rudder .  seems to work fine but im not into racing !

[tony23]

First Roadrunner,
                        you can easily solve the travel problem you have by either adjusting the end travels for the winch servo in the transmitter or if it's not a cheap and nasty winch you should have a screw on top of the winch that can be adjusted to adjust the travel for the distance of the throttle stick (sail Stick). There's no need to change to an arm winch.

Second TriumphJohn,
                              Having the control of the sail on one stick and the rudder on the other is nothing to do with racing type sailboats it's about being in control and precise with the movements, most people use normal aero receivers so for a sailing boat you would plug the winch into the throttle pins and the rudder into the aileron pins if you would to try and fly an aeroplane with the throttle in the elevator pins using that as a throttle the plane would fly all over the sky while trying to hold the throttle in it's position and steer with the ailerons (if you get what I mean).
 

[triumphjon]

i havnt found any problems by using my yachts using the two axis on the same stick unit , having the seawind set up on my computer radio has ment ive been able to increase the throw to my sail arm ! although it still doesnt let out enough to goosewing with the sails at 90 degrees to the mast ?

[unbuiltnautilus]

                              Having the control of the sail on one stick and the rudder on the other is nothing to do with racing type sailboats it's about being in control and precise with the movements, most people use normal aero receivers so for a sailing boat you would plug the winch into the throttle pins and the rudder into the aileron pins if you would to try and fly an aeroplane with the throttle in the elevator pins using that as a throttle the plane would fly all over the sky while trying to hold the throttle in it's position and steer with the ailerons (if you get what I mean).
 
[/quote]

Seems a bit presumptuous to imply that there is a wrong way and a right way to operate your transmitter? I have operated many models single stick,including a Cariad Pilot cutter, Orca Sharkboat (using a 27mhz Hitec single stick set originally designed for flying models ) and a number of pyrotechnic equipped models having ripped out the left hand stick and installed switching controls for the control of the models effects. As most of these models tend to operate in only 2 dimensions ( excluding wave action and sinking!)  I have not experienced them flying all over the sky in fact I find it a more "organic" way of operating the models, giving me greater feel for the control in the water.
To each his own........I do, however, run HMS Dolphin (18th century 20 gun frigate, Run, Fat Boy Run ,) twin stick!!

[tigertiger]

i havnt found any problems by using my yachts using the two axis on the same stick unit , having the seawind set up on my computer radio has ment ive been able to increase the throw to my sail arm ! although it still doesnt let out enough to goosewing with the sails at 90 degrees to the mast ?

Sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs, and you have already considered the following, but cannot do option 1 because of space.

Option 1, use a longer sail arm.

Option 2, use the trim tabs to increase the throw at both ends.

[triumphjon]

im using the standard futaba sail arm  !

[tigertiger]

By increasing the length of the sail arm, a little, or by using the trim tabs, you can let out/in a greater length of sheeting.
This will allow you to go wing on wing.

A longer arm allows a longer pull, without changing the throw.
Using the trim tabs increases the throw.