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Author Topic: Latest Moon Shot  (Read 3052 times)

polaris

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Latest Moon Shot
« on: October 09, 2009, 04:51:45 pm »


Dear All,

At great expense, they very recently fired two explosive missiles at the moon to look for water... but are now wondering why the expected dust cloud was not kicked up... maybe they did find water after all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! %) - or might it be soft cheese!!! %) :}

Regards, Bernard
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 05:18:56 pm »

I think that's why it's called research - either you confirm what you suspected, or you have to have another think.
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regiment

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 05:50:41 pm »

waste of money regiment
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knoby

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 06:17:25 pm »

crashing unmanned space ships into the moon is cheaper than crashing manned spaceships in to the ocean
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polaris

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 07:10:00 pm »


Dear Malcolm,

Quite right. Some may have thought I was being sarcastic, but it was really a bit tounge in cheek, since, if one sends something explosive somewhere and it doesn't look to have exploded properly - or the way at least that one expected -  it does beg some questions!

Regards, Bernard

Dear Regiment,

I must say I completely dissagree. These things are important to know, and indeed eventually will become very necessary to know. Ok, it costs lot's, but, eventually such knowledge will become very important.

Regards, Bernard
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Bryan Young

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2009, 07:17:05 pm »

Give me an answer. Why was it considered to be so important in the first place? It's not as if we are going to colonise the moon within any forseable future. And it would cost a few quid (replace that with Dollars, Yen, Roubles, Rials or whatever). But some otherworld people on this cash-strapped planet still think that it is still "value for money". Balderdash. A few years down the line then maybe OK. But unless it's an International and co-ordinated project then it all seems rather expensively redundant. BY.
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polaris

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2009, 08:31:02 pm »


Dear Bryan,

I do hope you will not consider me condescending when I say what I am going to do, it is definitely not intended.

You see, sooner or later it will become an absolute necessity. Ok, we are talking beyond probably all our life times (I hope), but it is knowledge that simply 'has' to be known. It is indeed, only wise to do so. What point sitting on this Planet ignoring what else is or might be around us... we might need an alternative some day? Alright, we have seen all the films - old and otherwise - but they are not that too far fetched when one thinks of what just might be out there... there is nothing new under the Sun and all that?

I look at such things in the light that what is being done is being done in the name of research, and, to be frank, I don't have a problem with money being spent in research such as this. Right, GM crops and all that, well, I do have a problem with such things since I know what trouble they might just cause, but the financiers of such things couldn't care a damn about that since all they are thinking is what they can get out of it. However, getting back to what we are talking about, this kind of research is 'open', it does not have the backing of such financiers - but I am not fool enough to think they are not watching, because i know for a fact that they are... what mining or extractive Org. would not be looking for new sources! - riding on the back of others... or discretely being part of same... you see, I am not immune to the Conspiracy Theorists!!!!!!!!

The Moon indeed hides many secrets. There are certainly minerals up there, and there will be water in some shape or form - whether we can drink it without considerable treatment another matter of course - "it might be water but not as we know it"... to coin a Star Trek sort of phrase or similar! It would be very silly for any person of this Earth to discount anything that might be beyond... just because we haven't 'bumped' into anyone else yet who lives in the absolute infinity of Space doesn't mean that they are not out there... that they don't have the capability - like us - to throw themselves into the Cosmos wherever they want, because, and don't be misslead, someone somewhere out there does, it's just that they haven't found us just yet, or they are having a damn good loom at what us lot are like before they do!!! - and I don't blame them one little bit, because if I was them I would give this one a miss with a very long barge pole!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0 HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy hit this one fair and square on the head when they wanted to build a though route through the Galaxy... "...What an apathetic lot, we told you years ago what we wanted to to do, but there was no reply". How true of the bulk of the populace these days! - the writers of this Series were very 'plugged in'!

So, you see, the answer is very simple... which science and field of research is more important to mankind? The Ion drive exists, one or two other things do as well, it is just a matter of time... ah, and there hangs another tale... time... Travelling in time is not as ridiculous as it might sound... we all do one way and another... but physically is another matter... or particulate matter! It is not impossible, and I challenge anybody to prove categorically and definitely otherwise... why... because it is impossible to do so! Only time will prove the issue...........! If anybody reading this thinks very very carefully it is actually possible to do so to the limited extent that some are surprisingly capable of doing so. What do I mean, well, let's see what some might say............... I can prove it but I am not going to do so as it will not be believed! - but it is acknowledged in certain academia to be 'surprising' shall we say. I think all I shall say is that we are all aware of three dimensions, the fourth is what might just make it possible... some are aware of it, but it's just a matter of physics... and boy oh boy what calculations they are! I know a World renown meta physicist that has been toying with this for 'some years', and I always enjoy our free thinking email exchanges even though I am Planets apart from his academic standing, but he likes my free and unburdened academic thinking, and he knows that I highly respect his considerable high standing... so the twain shall meet and all that.

Right, let's leave it at that, I have gone on enough, and I hope I haven't bored you to tears... but you did ask!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! %) :-)) :}

Regards, Bernard
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barryfoote

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2009, 09:16:02 pm »

Cor blimey Bernard,

Any chance of summarising that lot?? :-X :-X
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gondolier88

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 09:50:46 pm »

Much rather money was wasted on blowing up the surface of the moon than blowing up the cities of this planet.

Greg
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polaris

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 10:38:50 pm »


Dear Footski,

To Summarise would take longer than the original Post! - so/too much explanation... Not being 'funny' you understand I hope. Interesting though isn't it.

Regards, Bernard

Dear Greg,

Not being one to simply Post to achieve 'Postal Kudos numbers', I write combined. I totally agree!

Regards, Bernard
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2009, 10:39:45 pm »

Much rather money was wasted on blowing up the surface of the moon than blowing up the cities of this planet.

Greg
Can I nominate you as planet president?  Your policy lacks detail, but it's a damn good starting point.
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polaris

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2009, 10:49:59 pm »


Dear Malcolm,

You know, whilst I much appreciate what you say, it is a pity that some of our so called 'Leaders' won't broaden their minds a touch. I would very much like to do as you propose, but somehow I don't think that my thinking would 'conform' to the gnrl. policies of those in power that I would like to see not! Albeit that I would like to enforce a thing or two! - for all our benefit. But we would all like to do that wouldn't we! Oh well, such is life and the way things are... for the greater good and the benefit of all...........................! Eh... Beyond saying this, what else can I say???

Regards, Bernard
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Bryan Young

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2009, 11:48:12 pm »

No offence taken. But your reply was solely about the future benefits.....to whom? The first nation to get there? The whole gist of my argument is that while such"expeditions" may be of some use to us "sometime" in the future, the current financial state of this worlds economy would perhaps suggest that "cash" may be better spent in an attempt to stabilize "things". I'm all in favour of exploration (the Oceans, perhaps?), but it all costs lots of dosh. How many countries participated in this moon shot? Not many i would guess. So then who would benefit the most? A bit of a no-brainer,that one. So, to my mind, unless space exploration becomes a truly International project then it will remain a political football....or "race"....which will eventually profit nobody. Cheers. BY.
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derekwarner

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2009, 01:52:14 am »

Bernard........you don't have to ask.... {:-{ ...as you know I am on your wave length  %% %% ...it is not just our moon & our solar system....but other yet discovered galaxy systems....yes today beyond our comprehension.......tomorrow?.....not necessarily ...

A very profound but simple statement from Greg...."Much rather money was wasted on blowing up the surface of the moon than blowing up the cities of this planet" .....well done! ......  :-))

Do you think we could post this message to the latest Nobel peace prize recipient?.............Derek
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andygh

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2009, 02:18:46 am »

Quote
No offence taken. But your reply was solely about the future benefits.....to whom? The first nation to get there? The whole gist of my argument is that while such"expeditions" may be of some use to us "sometime" in the future, the current financial state of this worlds economy would perhaps suggest that "cash" may be better spent in an attempt to stabilize "things". I'm all in favour of exploration (the Oceans, perhaps?), but it all costs lots of dosh. How many countries participated in this moon shot? Not many i would guess. So then who would benefit the most? A bit of a no-brainer,that one. So, to my mind, unless space exploration becomes a truly International project then it will remain a political football....or "race"....which will eventually profit nobody. Cheers. BY.


I don't think this project was a spur of the moment thing, it's probably been a few years since the expedition started so what should they do, scrap the mission/hardware after everything was set to go? I don't think that would've saved much cash do you?

By the way, what's a "no brainer"? Is that something you don't need a brain for or just don't need to use it? I never understood
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tigertiger

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2009, 06:13:38 am »

No brainer

Off t'internet
Something that requires little mental effort or intelligence to perform or understand. The term is often applied to decisions which are straightforward.

i.e. You don't need a brain to come to that decisioin.
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tigertiger

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2009, 06:23:48 am »

Research on seemingly grandiose projects has many spin off benefits. It should not be directly compared to what else the money should be spent on, IMHO.

The cost of getting a man on the moon would have been more than enough to solve all the social housing problems in the USA, a point made at the time by black civil liberties groups.
But the spin offs from the research have been huge. Apart from things like the ubiquitous Teflon, Velcro, and the ball point that writes upside down. And huge advances in industrial ceramics.

We can only speculate, but:
Without the space race we may not have developed many of the technologies we take for granted yet.
The multistage rocket, allowing vehicles to escape the earths gravity.
Without this perhaps no satelites, ... modern telecoms industry as we know it ... mobile phones... etc.
No globalisation yet.
Perhaps no micro computers... computer control systems ... engine management systems...
Perhaps no internet..
                             ...No Model Boat Mayhem  :o :o :o

Like I say, only speculation. But all of these have improved our lives and/or created a lot of wealth around the globe.
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sheerline

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2009, 09:13:24 am »

 I hate to say this, but I think it was the last war which sparked off development of most of the technology we have around now, computers, communications, rocketry etc etc. Space exploration has become possible because of it. Mans efforts to find better and more efficient ways of killing each other appear to have this effect and the last war (WW2) saw a rapid advance in all fields, right across the board.
Space exploration is wonderful and fascinating and it is in mans nature to explore. It costs an absolute fortune of course and many can see how this vast sum could be put to use improving our lot down here on earth. I think it wonderful that it goes on, but it's sad that whilst man is looking over the horizon at something new and fascinating, his house is slowly crumbling around him. This planet is in a mess and mankind has made it that way, perhaps we should have a bit of a clean and tidy up around this 'base station'  before we set off and explore another.
What worries me is the fact that we may find 'intelligent' life out there. What would we do if we discovered another planet such as this, I think I can guess.... kill the occupants, take the gold and mess it up  it in much the same way as we have done with this one!
We may be ready to go there... but are they ready for us? 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2009, 10:01:41 am »

All the arguments about the "opportunity cost" of something like space exploration miss one important point. Yes, the money could have been spent on social housing, erasing world poverty etc. etc. But we all know that in fact it wouldn't have!

Colin
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dreadnought72

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2009, 10:22:08 am »

Just a couple of points. LCROSS "hitched a ride" with LRO, the lunar orbiter which is now producing tremendous results from lunar orbit. So, in a way, it was a cheap mission to determine whether or not the lunar poles have water.

While no debris cloud was detected visually, the conference following the impact suggests there's a pile of data that's going to take a fortnight or so to analyse before results can be determined. I wouldn't call this mission a "fail" just yet.

And finally, while this mission cost ~80 million dollars, all that money was spent on Earth, funding engineering firms, universities, paying salaries and so on. No money spent on space research is "wasted" by being blasted into orbit as a pile of notes.  :-))

Andy
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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 10:46:10 am »

Im just hope the Klangers dont get the Soup Dragon to start shooting back!
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Jimmy James

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2009, 02:54:04 pm »

All very interisting...But I think the real question is did the missiles actually explode or did they missfire... if they did missfire ---some day someone is going to have to defuse them ... if they did go off why no dust cloud??? --- It is believed in some quarters that the moon has some really deep dust seas (With dust so fine it acts like a liquid)... perhaps this is why there was no dust cloud ...ie; the missile penetrated so deep before they detonated that there was little or no surface disturbance..... Or perhaps little green men nicked them!!! :-)) {-) {-)
Freebooter
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2009, 04:20:58 pm »

Freebooter - they weren't missiles, just a section of rocket plus a spacecraft. So no question of them exploding. The kinetic energy from the high velocity at impact was supposed to be sufficient to throw up the debris.

Colin
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John W E

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2009, 05:45:46 pm »

by isnt it a good job certain folk werent around in Captain Cook's day 1768-1771can you image forum members sitting on the dock side saying we cant afford to send this ship out to explore the earth, we know its flat and we dont want to find Australia and other places....neee adventia ya nar... we have to explore  ;) {-) {-) {-)

aye bloobs
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andygh

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Re: Latest Moon Shot
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2009, 07:15:33 pm »

agreed, what we need is more enquiring minds not fewer
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