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[offshore1987]

The point is that they will help you fish where others havnt, and to place a pile of ground bait in a spot a spod can not reach or be cast to. Also allowing you to fish with lighter roads and line as you do not have to beef up your gear to cast out  on big pits they often leave or put in shelfs mid way out for the carp to play around on, thats where boats come into there own. Back in the day proper anglers would be castin for an hour with a marker float seein his swim which in under the water... now someone with a clue can turn up at a big water, 15 mins later know every bump on the bottom and hopefully not recked the area for 2 hours by splashing around ( this is with a sounder ofcourse )

They have up sides and down sides like with everything, You could look at it the same way as the pole in the last 5 years... People like using the pole because it can put your rig in a perfect place and leave it there time and time again, and you can use finer end tackle which would give you more bites, the same can said for the bait boat

Each lake is somewhat diffrent though, i would be shot for even thinkin of using a bait boat while fly fishing and so on lol = time and place

Dan

[john s 2]

Talking to fishermen. It is said that bait boats are being misused. Too much bait is being put into the water. On this forom there was a posting about increasing the capacity of a bait boat.Your thoughts please lads and lasses. John.

[U-33]

I wonder how much feed is actually needed to attract fish into your swim? My big eel attractor feed was mixed up in small margarine containers...half went into the area I intended to fish, the other half was spread out in the form of bicycle wheel spokes to form a trail into where the main feed was. That always seemed to me to be adequate, and usually resulted in at least one take during a session.

Maybe things have changed since I gave up eel fishing (no, not maybe...certainly)but I still say that the old ways were successful, and I reckon that an angler could still catch a big carp with just a crust of fresh bread, a rod/reel, a piece of silver paper and a landing net.

[Artistmike]

Maybe things have changed since I gave up eel fishing (no, not maybe...certainly)but I still say that the old ways were successful, and I reckon that an angler could still catch a big carp with just a crust of fresh bread, a rod/reel, a piece of silver paper and a landing net.

In fact Chris Yates, one of the more famous Carp fishermen in this country has always advocated the use of simple and original angling techniques, split cane rods, centre pin reels and stalking as a way of finding big fish. he has always said it's about knowledge of the fish, not high tech techniques that produce the best fish and as he held the British record at one time, I suspect he knows what he's talking about.  It's inevitable that people will always push the boundaries of techniques in angling as in other disciplines but they aren't always the most successful and to me there is a great satisfaction in using traditional angling techniques. I still have the Mk4 Carp Rod I made as a lad and it's still a potent piece of tackle that will see me out ...... 

[Stavros]

U-33 the main trouble is that everyone who has been using a spod has forced all the carp out to distance,the constant bombardment of a spod thats caused it.I used to fish Horseshoo lkae at regular intervals for well over 6 years and never saw a singe carp caught in the margins.When you looked into the lake with polaroids all you could see is weed,climbing a tree it is weed weed for over 100yds so all the fish were caught at range.Thankfully everyone saw sense and moderated the spoding so I am told as I havnt fished there for years.Bait boats are banned there alas.
Yes I fully agree bait boats are a pain in the butt when used incorrectly and I for one fully agree with others on here who state Anglers are putting far to much bait in.The most I will use is a handful at a time.A lot of Anglers will use a pva full wich is about the most you will need on all lakes even abroad.
I was talking not so long ago to a friend of min who is dead against bait bots BUT now is a convert due to the lake he fishes has 4 islands on it and as it is overgrown the carp like to hide under the tree line and are impossible to catch,his was in fuming when the bait boat ban was lifted as he said the skill of the angler has gone.He has his own now !!!!!!! As he has said he would prefer now to see them on a lake than seeing leads floats etc in the trees being a danger to wildlife.But as he said a bait boat is so difficult to place under a tree without loosing it iin there.He was totally GOBSMAKED when he mapped the lake with his echo sounder at all the underwater features he ad missed using an marker float,he has fished this lake for over 30 years and thought he knew it.
Yes a bait boat in the wrong hands is a menace but used correctly like a load of other equipement is a very usefull one to have.

Dave

[U-33]

I still have the Mk4 Carp Rod I made as a lad and it's still a potent piece of tackle that will see me out ...

I remember saving every penny I could earn, beg, borrow or defraud to buy a pair of Richard Walker Mk 1V's and a pair of Mitchell 300's...I was the envy of the lake for a while. Superb pieces of equipment.

I still can't get excited about bait boats and all these new fangled pieces of envelope pushing tackle though, it smacks of cheating somehow to me. Like Artistmike in the post above, I guess I'm a bit a of dinosaur when it comes to fishing tackle.

Anyway, back to carp...if you throw a few pieces of breadcrust out into the water, the currents will take them out...carp will be laying where the currents will bring them food, so according to the law of averages, the crusts will end up in the carp's territory sooner or later. If you've got a piece of crust with a hook in it amongst those freebies, a carp will smell it...and there's a good chance you'll get a take.

I always found carp to be stupid fish, I've caught them on all sorts of baits in all sorts of places...on one lake I fished there was a large drainpipe cut into the bank and extending out into the water by three or four feet, an ideal home for a big eel, I thought. I caught a double figure mirror carp out of that pipe, the daft thing grabbed a suspended livebait lowered into the pipe. I  don't know who was more surprised, me or the carp...

Maybe one of these days I'll pick up a rod again, but with this rheumatoid arthritis coming back with a vengeance, it may be some time. I still have an appointment with a seven pound eel...


Rich

[Artistmike]

It would be easy to make the point that using bait boats is counter-productive to carp fishing. If you use a bait boat to drop groundbait two hundred yards from you, that's where the fish will go !.  If you ban boats on a lake and anglers groundbait within easy casting distance, that's where the fish will congregate ....

I'm lucky enough to remember the days when Dick Walker was the icon of Carp Fishing and you could still find lakes, un-fished by anyone,  with big carp in them that you could stalk naturally. ... I appreciate that the whole ethos of Carp Fishing has changed but perhaps more waters should take up Redmire's approach who, although they have capitalised on the place's fame and Carp fishing's popularity, have kept the whole angling ethic a bit lower tech. I still can't understand why they think anyone needs four rods though ! 

I'm lucky enough to be a member of a trout fishing syndicate who fish a lake on the moors here in Devon and we have kept numbers of members down, the quality of fish high and made rules that favour the fish, not huge takes by the members. After a stocking of fish, that happens rarely, members aren't even allowed to fish for a fortnight to allow the fish to settle to eating the natural food resources.  The fishing is difficult, but the catching more pleasurable for that. .. I don't visit some of these small fisheries with huge densities of fish, put in the same morning, that because of the lack of natural food, grab anything that moves !

We get the angling that we are prepared to pay for, not only in financial terms but in terms of care for the fish. Just perhaps, it may be that peoples' expectations are too high these days in terms of catch numbers and weights, the "instant fix" doesn't actually necessarily give the highest pleasure in angling, as in much of life...  ........

[U-33]

Good grief, there's some names that bring memories...Dick Walker, Redmire Pool...true angling icons, and not a bait boat in sight! May I add another icon/hero...the late John Sidley, the most respected eel angler ever to cast a line. John was to big eel fishing like Dick Walker was to carp fishing back in the day...I was lucky enough to meet him once, you couldn't wish to meet a nicer man than John was.

[Artistmike]

Of course I know of John Sidley but I never had the pleasure of meeting him. I've done my share of eel fishing when I was younger, but not lately and back then of course he was required reading on the subject, much like Dick Walker or even Bob Church who really got me into trout fishing. ... These sorts of men had a respect for their subject that was unsurpassed.

Various pressures on waters have changed angling but it's still a great sport and has given me a lot of pleasure in my life, from Cod fishing on the Varne to small Browns out of a typical southern chalk stream... wonderful memories.... I don't knock modern technology per se at all, though I do tend to be 'old school' in my approach. I just think that at times the full consequences of using some techniques aren't totally thought out and bait boats may be one of them.

Six hundred pounds for a bait boat?  I still use an Intrepid Rimfly for my trout fishing which you can still pick up on Ebay still for less than ten pounds and I've had my share of good fish on it ... 

Do you remember Jack Hargreaves ? Another man with links to the The Piscatorial Society, who had a feel for what the countryside and angling was really about....

[U-33]

Yes, I remember Jack Hargreaves, my late brother was good friends with him. Here's another one for you...Major Oliver(Ollie)Kite, he was great one for chalk stream trout. Great men, now sadly all passed on.

I used to do a fair bit of trout fishing with Alan Yates, we used to fish Avington, Chalk Springs, Two Lakes...really enjoyable, but horrendously expensive for a day's fishing for grown on mutant trout. Our favourite place to enjoy a day's fly fishing was Chalk Springs, we used to go once a month...a beautiful place to fish, not overstocked, crystal clear water which let the fish see you as easy as you could see them, and the fish were the tastiest I've ever eaten. I did fish a trout lake down your way, close to Honiton, we used to go and stay on a farm down there in the middle of the Black Hills, a beautiful place. I used to play about catching carp on the farm pond with a fly rod and bread flies, but I'd always have a day on this trout lake...blowed if I can remember the name of it now.

Bob Church...now wasn't he the reservoir trout man, came from Northampton way? You remember Brian Crawford, another eel fishing man? I first met Brian when he lived down here in Brighton, we fished all over the county in the hunt for big eels...then his work took him up to Cumbria. We still keep in touch via Facebook after...what, nearly fifty years now.

Memories... 

[Artistmike]

Yes Bob Church was one who really took Reservoir Trout Fishing and made it his own and popularised it immensely ...... I'm not sure which trout fishery you're talking about down this way, There was Stafford Moor which was a well known big trout water but that changed back to a carp lake eventually, which was a bit of a loss.... Mind you we are very lucky in this part of the country with plenty of very good reservoir trout fishing as well as nice runs of Salmon and Sea trout of course and I am also only just round the corner from a great Bass beach 

They are good memories and it's great that there are still so many youngsters dedicated to the sport, I've loved every minute spent fishing and if the old saying is true that "The gods do not subtract the days spent fishing form an individual's allotted time on earth" ... I'm still only about 20. 

[U-33]

and if the old saying is true that "The gods do not subtract the days spent fishing form an individual's allotted time on earth" ... I'm still only about 20. 

I think I'd argue with that last sentence Mike!!




Rich

[Doca]

After so many years, I am back in my old pastime… model-boats hobby.  Last time I built one model was maybe 40 years ago (I am 57) but old love never vanish completely. Among few other activities, I am a passionate carp fisherman also for almost 40 years and several years ago I have decided to built one bait-boat from memory how I done that long time ago. As you will see, it is still not finished but I hope it will be soon.
It all started with drawings which I done old way… by hand on semi-transparent paper for technical drawings so that I can position sheets one on another to follow changes of overall shape of the model. Due to my numerous duties and obligations related to my business and family, I was forced to push everything aside for some “better” time. Luckily, one of my friends offered to make and initially assemble keel and ribs for me, and he done that several years ago but I never managed to find time to see him and pick that up (he lives in another town 160km from me).
When I finally got my model, I realize that he also attempt to cover it with some kind of veneer but that was done so clumsy and imprecise and on top of that he covered it with 1-2mm thick layer of something like white wood glue, so that I was forced to remove all of that leaving just keel and ribs naked again. That was a difficult job (to avoid damage to the skeleton) but luckily he was unable to source plywood but used 8mm thick Linden planks for both keel and ribs. It is very light but still more than firm for this purpose. Soon I managed to provide nice 1,5mm balsa veneer strips and I started covering model again as you can see on some pics.

[Doca]

Some people will probably wonder why I haven’t follow today’s mainstream in bait-boat area and build catamaran type of hull. Well, I was always doing things my way (which wasn’t always the best way… but… that’s me!) and my idea was to make compromise between function and shape. I would also like to have model I can play around when fishing is slow and this type of hull will perform much better than catamaran.
I also decided to make my own solution of the bait ejecting mechanism and I solved it the way you can see on pictures.  That works very reliably and can carry and eject 3kg of SPOD (mixture of carp bait food) easily.

[Doca]

Bait boats are used primarily for two purposes – to help to place bait and system with hook on distances normally unreachable by fisherman from the bank. Average fisherman with  good tackle and casting skills can reach 100-120 or even up to 150m (top masters) by casting from the lake or river bank. Frequently, big fish is on even greater distance and the only way to reach those distances is to use bait-boat. There we come to the main problem of most bait-boats – number of runs it can make with one battery charge. Have on mind that modern carp fisherman have 3 rods and in most cases he is having some friends with him, each of them also with 3 rods. It is really not acceptable to tell your friends that your small boat is only for you, so you have to count on at least 5 to 10 runs for each rod (your and your friends!) per day. If fish is very active that number could be tripled!. Most factory made bait-boats can hardly make more than 30-50 runs on such distances with one battery charge. Hence, owner has to either purchase spare set of batteries or such type which can be recharged on site in a few hours. I solved that problem by using a bit specific motor with enough power and RPM but with much reduced current consumption. Standard motors used in bait-boats are brushed types of 540 or 550 class but they are such power wasters. They are drawing 1 to 1,5Amps even without any load. With load their current can easily jump to over few amps and batteries won’t last long. Thanks to the kindness of one my friend, I am using a specific DC motor made by MAXON. It is Ironless brushed motor with 13 poles and in my case it is working on 12V DC. No load current is ONLY 90mA and with all weight added on boat (batteries, mechanics and bait food load) it is drawing around 300mA! With that current and with 50mm racing style 2 blade propeller it is running smoothly, without heating and can make 1,2-1,5m/per second which is more than enough speed for bait-boats (speed is more-less insignificant for this purpose).

[Doca]

Most modelers have difficulties or troubles with electronic part of this hobby. Thanks to my second profession (Mag. Sci. Electronics), that is easiest part for me and I solved all electronics in a few easy evenings. Many years ago I purchased few ZN409 IC-s hoping to start with modeling again (but that doesn’t happened back then) and now I recall I have them and decided to build an ordinary data sheet example of speed controller with that IC. I know it is not “modern” but for this purpose, it is more than satisfactory solution and work excellent with MAXON motor. That IC has one very convenient function – separate pin to perform motor reverse function so everything is actually very simple.
Bait ejecting mechanism is solved just with mechanics because I can’t call “electronic solution” something that use just one servo and two micro-switch and two relays… they are all “mechanic” to me! If anyone is interested or in need of such solutions I will gladly post it here.

This is video from first “WET” test in a small PVC garden pool and with ordinary low pitch 3 blade propeller – speed is half of what is now. I use two 6V/4,5Ah SLA batt in series, propshaft is half filled with SAE60 motor oil - not a micron of oil os leaking out and no any trace of water inside model afer 4 hours in a pool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToMc73aAimI

[Stavros]

My only concern is that is will definatly be top heavy with one 1kilo of bait in the hopper let alone 3 as it looks very top heavy,can you post a video withit carrying some bait in it .

Dave

[TheLongBuild]

Must admit , looks a bit top heavy.

However taking the basic hull as above could you not refit it to have say four Torpedo type tubes within the boat and a piston rod to push out the bait from the back of each tube. ( A bit like the silicon glue guns ) 

[pettyofficernick]

Hi There. I recently was asked to repair a commercially produced baitboat, an Aqua Cat if memory serves. Once opened up, the insides were most interesting, propulsion was provided by 4 pumps, It was computer controlled, did a self test when switched on and had a 40mhz futaba radio. The most interesting part though, was the mechanism for opening the hopper doors, not a servo in sight! Instead, there were two very thin shiny wires, one end of which was anchored to the hull with an electrical connection, the other end was attached to a spring loaded catch, whth another electrical connection to complete a circuit. When the stick was moved to open the hopper doors, the shiny thin wire contracted, releasing the catch, when the stick was returned to normal, the wire expanded again, fascinating to watch. A bit of  research on the interweb solved the mystery, the shiny thin wires are 'Muscle wire' they are made from a shape memory alloy, and are available to buy for about 8 quid a meter. There must be many uses for this stuff in model boating, your thoughts Gentlemen? It seems that this stuff is used a lot in robotics, and the current Mars rover uses it to operate some of it's equipment.
Regards,
Nick.

http://www.planetcarp.co.uk/product.php?&loc=5&category=$1$$3g1yT4G7a55F9HxmYiAkb1

[Doca]

Spot on Stavros… obviously experience is talking from you. I still haven’t come to that point in my text but … YES you are right. With 1 kg of load everything is still quite stabile but with 3kg I noticed instability as soon as I load the container-hopper. It is not possible to bury unloading mechanism deeper into the hull to lower the center of gravity, so that will be solved with two snap-detachable styrodur floats in a shape like elongated canoes along both sides of the model. That is why catamaran hulls are way better regarding stability but they look ugly (to my taste) and I have to pay the price of my choice of hull type.

[Doca]

Following schematic is my electro-mechanical solution of the bait container ejection mechanism.

[Doca]

Further drawings to clarify my system.

[Doca]

My ESC with reverse. Maybe old fashion but work perfectly.

[Bargainhunter]

Good thread!!  I have built a few over the years.  Some with more success than others!

My first baitboat was made of flat bits of ply,  looked like a shoebox,  and delivered 1kg of bait very, very slowly!

Next up was a scratch build  - took about 2kg of bait and had a built-in echo (Humminbird with camera and screen on the bank).  This was a lovely boat,  fast, simple (2ch + release mechanism) and stable.  3hr+ running time on a 6v 10Ah battery.  But sadly it didn't survive a fall onto concrete in my shed :(  See pic:  I wish I could find the right hull to build another!

Next up was the 'drainpipe special' which is somewhat infamous amongst my friends.  I had the bright idea of using square drainpipe to make a tri-hull boat,  with the electrics and single prop down the middle hull.  Unfortunately,  the amount of sealant and extras needed to make the hull resulted in massive weight,  the hull twisted in a chop and made the hopper release unreliable,  and the whole thing had a turning circle as wide as the QE2!  I used it once,  when it took 20min to get out to 200yds,  failed to drop the bait,  then got stuck in the reeds on the far bank!!

Then I had a modded R6 with a bigger motor to make it a bit faster.  It proved somewhat tricky to steer at speed though due to the short hull design.

Now I have a Deliverance where  I've ripped out the electrics and installed 2.4G radio, Lipo cells and a brushless setup to give me plenty of speed.  It's corking boat albeit a little heavy.  It is also carrying a small leak which I cannot find for the life of me.

I'm currently looking at something small for carrying pike baits in rough water and will post any progress.  

@Doca,  love your hull,  I wish I had those sorts of building skills!  I would look at maybe putting the hopper at the back though like the one in my pic.  If you place the battery right in the nose of the boat,  it should balance out nicely and it's a very simple solution without the stability issues.