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Author Topic: FIREWORKS  (Read 13206 times)

Patternmaker

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FIREWORKS
« on: November 13, 2009, 01:39:16 pm »

Hi all, what are your views on fireworks, especially pet owners. This time of year is absolute purgatory for me with our Cocker Spaniel Sophie who is terrified, they seem to get louder each year, start earlier and go on for longer, with the economic climate as it is I wonder where they get the money to buy them 
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Number 6

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 03:55:44 pm »

I think they should only be available to qualified people for organised displays. I'm a pet owner too and also a retained firefighter, I've seen what damage they can cause in the wrong hands. People don't realise how dangerous they can be. I like to watch the displays, but I don't like them being thrown about by kids and not treated with some respect. My two dogs and cat aren't great fans of them either. Dave. :police:
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DickyD

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 04:16:34 pm »

We have had fireworks since a week before Guy Fawkes night and every night since.
We know that they will carry on into the new year.

I have been in touch with my local councillor who contacted our M.P. Alan Whitehead. Our MP has asked our local councillor to do a survey of as many affected parties as possible, ie police, fire brigade, A&E departments, RSPCA, residents associations etc with a view of bringing up in Parliament our suggestions of banning firework sales and only allowing licensed displays.

Now all we need is for more people to stop moaning about the problem and do something about it.

How many people would want to put up with a 140 pound German Shepherd trying to destroy their house while trying to find a place away from the noise.
You cant keep your dog sedated for two months.
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funtimefrankie

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 04:38:12 pm »

Our cocker's not bothered at all by fireworks, in fact he's been to a display, with us, not on his own %%
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 04:39:26 pm »

I have to say that I think there should only be organised displays, and fireworks should not be available to the general public. I have seen the damage and injury caused by fireworks. I spent a long time obtaining my pyrotechnics licence, and still have the utmost respect for these things.  >>:-(
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John W E

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 04:41:48 pm »

aye aye there Dicky 'you cant keep a dog sedated for 2 months'

cant keep you quiet for 2 minutes  %% %% that poor owld dorg
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dodgy geezer

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 04:48:00 pm »

What I read here scares me.

Since the 1960s we have attacked traditional family life, and have now developed for ourselves a world where the usual social pressures to behave with consideration to others have been gradually eroded until we end up with anti-social behaviour becoming the norm.

Then, instead of addressing the fundamental problem that we have created, we call for more central regulation of everybody's lives by a government body to address bad behavior by a minority. And this will cost money and employ more and more civil servants and regulators, all living of the taxes of the fewer and fewer people who are actually in productive work. And ratchet up another notch of acceptable state interference. 

And we all know that, when a firework ban is put into effect, young hoodlums will still be able to import and throw illegal fireworks around with impunity - they will be impossible to catch, while the law-abiding middle-class farmer on a Yorkshire moor will be fined because he has an unregistered bonfire in a field, invites a few friends for a drink and gets arrested under the 'November Parties Celebrations Act 2011'...
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DickyD

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 05:07:31 pm »

Dodgy Geezer what you must realise is that this is not the 1960's with the small fireworks of that era.

These mainly imported fireworks now have the potential to kill and maim like never before.

If you are happy to live with these things we will happily send all our little yobbos up to yours every night.

This is not big brother it is just that we get sick and tired of living in a place that resembles Iraq or Afghanistan for two months of the year.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 05:27:12 pm »


If you are happy to live with these things we will happily send all our little yobbos up to yours every night.


I don't know why you think I am happy with the situation, and feel the need to threaten me? Nothing I said suggests that I want to have dangerous fireworks thrown around.

I just said that that:

- the situation is indeed bad
- I believe your answer would not solve it
- I believe your answer would make things a lot worse in a different way

I think that the sooner people look for the root causes of problems, rather than calling for some more knee-jerk legislation the quicker these problems will be solved....
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polaris

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 05:51:23 pm »

Dear All,

I can see all sides of this, and, one way and another all are right in their own way. However.

One of the problems is that fireworks are available all year round nearly. Once upon a time - and it was not that long ago - they were only available a week before Nov. 5, and after that, that was that. None. The fireworks then obtainable were sufficient and the range perfectly acceptable.

True, there are louder ones now but they are less. Import and mfg. legislation brought in about 1.5 to 2 years ago limited the dec. levels, and this has made a great difference. The ground shaking explosions that were about for a few years prior to 2 years go are not available any more, and the use of any such detonations above the limit is now illegal. The UK Mfg licences/Excise & Import bodies have been very effective in dealing with this matter.

As to 'accidents' - which as we know no such thing exists... there always being a cause... it is inevitable that whatever the gnrl. populous do, they will always find a way of harming themselves with it. What is to be done...? Just for the sake of a number of idiots, why does the vast majority of sensible users have to be penalised and suffer. Ok, the solution is relatively easy... make the purchase of fireworks only available to those in excess of 25 or 30 years old, and anyone caught possessing/using fireworks below that age makes their parents or them liable to a £100 fine or 1 month detention. Since we live in such a ridiculous PC world these days, who would be brave enough to introduce such legislation???

Urban areas do indeed suffer I know, however, a relation who lives in Maidenhead has stated that this last two years have been very much better - their Labrador has suffered much in that past.

I am certainly definitely against the banning of fireworks whatever is said. It is a right that the population has possessed for a very long time, however, anything above and beyond what was available in the 1980's (say), could easily be withdrawn without causing trouble. The trouble is, people see these huge displays else where, and feel they must emulate as near as possible the loudness of what they have seen - indeed, the Keep-Up-With-The- Joneses' plays a significant factor in all this... 'who can make the loudest noise!.

So, at the end of the day, it boils down to availability and reasonableness. As to reasonableness, well, this is up to Govt. to set the rules back down to what they were in the 1980's or thereabouts. All these multiple mortars, etc. etc., are just a Mktg. thing that people have latched onto like the ridiculous and very organised mktg. Americanisation in GB of Haloween. Something which I find totally obscene... in as much that children think they must do it otherwise their friends think they are not 'cool'. How I detest that word... and how much the Mktg. people use it... and the people follow like lemmings...............!

To summarise. I feel sorry for people and animals in Urban/City areas that must suffer due to Govt. lack of control, in as much that the Police have their hands tied to do anything about it. As to other less populated areas, well, the problem is less. As to the idiots who missuse fireworks make them unobtainable or the enforced penalaties of possessing same a worth while deterrent. BUT, to ban them no, there are many out there who have respect for them and use them properly, and why should they be denied for the sake of the idiots and foolhardy?

Regards, Bernard
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Patternmaker

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 06:11:24 pm »

Just a reminder of the firework Legislation laws introduced in 2004
 

 
Legislation has been introduced (see below) to help make fireworks safer to use and to tackle their deliberate misuse. It affects how fireworks are imported, sold and used, and places restrictions on possession.
 
It means that fireworks will be safer, less noisy and can only be let off at certain times. It also means that those misusing them to either damage property or injure will be able to be dealt with by the relevant authorities.
 
Fireworks will only be widely available during the weeks leading up to Bonfire Night and a few days before New Year's Eve, Diwali and Chinese New Year. For the rest of the year, you will only be able to buy fireworks from shops that are licensed to supply them.
 
Penalties
 
It is an offence under section 80 of the Explosives Act 1875 to throw or set off fireworks in any highway, street, thoroughfare or public place. The power to enforce this section of the Act rests with the police. Anyone found guilty is liable to pay a fine of up to £5,000 and can be imprisoned for up to six months. Penalty notices for disorder (on-the-spot fines) can also be issued for this offence, attracting the upper tier fine of £80.
 
In Regulations made under the Fireworks Act 2003, it is also an offence for the under 18s to possess fireworks in a public place and for anyone to let fireworks off during night hours (11pm to 7am). Police also have the power to issue penalty notices for disorder for these offences. Again, the offence attracts the upper tier fine of £80.
 
Under section 4 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 it is an offence to cause any unnecessary suffering to any domestic or captive animals. The penalty on conviction is either imprisonment up to 51 weeks or a fine of up to £20,000 or both. Enforcement of this section of the Act rests with Trading Standards, the Police or the RSPCA as appropriate.


 

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polaris

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 06:20:41 pm »


Dear Patternmaker,

V.usefull info.. It remains just the full enforecement of the Law... in otherwords us to jump up and down about it.

Thanks again, useful info..

Regards, Bernard
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andyn

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 06:29:11 pm »

I think they should only be available to qualified people for organised displays.

So do I...

My pooch is terrified of them when alone, but if you keep your pet close by you and give it some fuss etc every now and then they won't mind the fireworks :-))
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dreadnought72

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 06:43:58 pm »

In Regulations made under the Fireworks Act 2003, it is also an offence for the under 18s to possess fireworks in a public place and for anyone to let fireworks off during night hours (11pm to 7am). Police also have the power to issue penalty notices for disorder for these offences. Again, the offence attracts the upper tier fine of £80.

 :o

In "Swallows and Amazons", Arthur Ransome's 1930 novel that inspired thousands to learn to sail and camp and generally live good wholesome lives, Nancy Blackett, aged about eleven, sets off a firework which leads to the entire story unfolding. Are you trying to tell me this would all be illegal and frowned upon in the 21st century?!

 %%

Andy
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DickyD

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 06:49:03 pm »

So do I...

My pooch is terrified of them when alone, but if you keep your pet close by you and give it some fuss etc every now and then they won't mind the fireworks :-))
What planet are you living on Andy. My dog is my constant companion and he's terrified of fireworks with or without me and when he's terrified he's dangerous.

Pattern maker most of your list of fireworks offenses are only enforceable if you have police on the streets. My son got beaten up by a gang and it took the police 4 days to come out, what chance do I have of getting them out to a bunch of yobbos, all of school age, throwing these bloomin great Chinese fireworks over peoples garden fences ?
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Patternmaker

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 07:00:27 pm »

What planet are you living on Andy. My dog is my constant companion and he's terrified of fireworks with or without me and when he's terrified he's dangerous.

Pattern maker most of your list of fireworks offenses are only enforceable if you have police on the streets. My son got beaten up by a gang and it took the police 4 days to come out, what chance do I have of getting them out to a bunch of yobbos, all of school age, throwing these bloomin great Chinese fireworks over peoples garden fences ?

Richard I absolutely agree with you I have tried every conceivable thing to try and keep my dog pacified, but nothing works, those who's pets are not affected are very lucky.

The firework laws cannot be enforced for the very reason you stated
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w3bby

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 08:42:52 pm »

Let's just ban everything and be done with it, do you really want to live in that world.... Lipos dangerous, lets ban them, people have injured themselves with power tools, remove them from sale, cars kill people let's ban those while we are at it. Fact is that people only seek to ban things that they feel are there purely for fun and serve, as they see it , no useful purpose . Make an annual list of the things that cause the most injuries over a year and ban them the next..... who wants to live in that world....

We have fireworks on sale in Sweden but they only go on "general" sale nearer the bigger occasions, New Year, Easter, Valborg (Swedish thing) and a couple of others. "Bangers" are supposedly not allowed but they find there way from Denmark. There is an age limit in place (can't remember what it is). I will admit that we do not have the start of the season as early as Bonfire Night but it will be with us soon and we wil be hearing fireworks at night.

Last New Years Eve the fireworks, all private, started about 23.45 in and around Helsingborg and continued unabated till 00.30, wonderful show.

As for our cat and dog, the cat we keep in but he doesn't care, goes into the garden when we fire our own but no further. The dog has never cared but then again she has been trained to ignore loud and sudden noises. Not special training just basic training with the sit, stay type of stuff that allows for a sound and stable dog in the face of sudden noises and/or sights, the same as our other dogs have been.

DickyD

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 08:53:15 pm »

So Ian you are now suggesting my dog is not trained ? You of course know my dog. >:-o

Yes the majority of people in our area do want them banned, you try 2-3 months of fireworks anytime day ( yes in daylight ) or night then see if you feel the same.

I dont want to ban them completely but would like to see only licensed displays by people who know what they are doing.
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polaris

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 09:13:49 pm »


Dear Dickie,

It just boils down to what I said before really... restrict the sale of such things to one week before Nov. 5th and that's that... restrict the intensity to a certain degree and that's that, restrict the purchace to a destinct age group and that's that, and restrict the intensity of the fireworks themselves and that's that. Just a proper balance is all that's required.

Regards, Bernard
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w3bby

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 09:51:01 pm »

So Ian you are now suggesting my dog is not trained ? You of course know my dog. >:-o
I am suggesting that your dog is not trained to cope with sudden loud noises, you say yourself when he is terrified he is dangerous. My dog is not terrified as we have had fireworks at home and she has been trained to cope, not gundog training just training against sudden unexpected sights and loud noise as part of normal training. Here you can test your dog for "stability", go through a course and a gun will go off, a cloaked person will jump out and similar abnormal occurrences. Dog is assessed on how it copes, all a question of acclimatisation.

Years ago in the RM my Training Officer's dog went on all training with us, he found our military fireworks, "thunder crackers" fascinating and had to be leashed. He would chase them when thrown and after they went bang he would come running around waiting for the next one.

So I guess what I am saying is that your dog considers fireworks as something to be afraid of as he has not been acclimatised to them not that he is not trained but that there were holes in his training. My dog will not retrieve, never has, never trained her to as a pup as it didn't interest me, a hole in her training.

gondolier88

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 09:53:51 pm »

Offer a young boy a pint and tell him to drink it, he will take it, try to drink it and, normally find it disgusting and be sick.
Offer the same young boy a cigarette, tell him to smoke it, he will take it and cough and cough.

He will grow up with a healthy respect for drink and tobacco.

Tell a young boy drink and cigarettes are harmful, but they are great, but he can't touch them until he's 18.

9 times out of ten when he hits 18 he'll go off on one...

Why not sell fireworks year-round, make them an acceptable part of our culture to celebrate with fireworks without that factor of doing 'something wrong and getting away with it'.

The forbidden fruit tastes sweeter and all that.

Greg
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craftysod

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2009, 09:59:56 pm »

The thing that i find frustrating is,i cannot go into a gun shop and buy ammunition or a hand grenade because i no longer hold a license.
yet i can go to a shop and buy fireworks,add these to a chemical fertilizer and you have destruction waiting to happen.
Ban the bloody things,we have them going off all times of day and night,they do not bother my dog to much,but as Dicky has said,
doesnt matter if you have a trained dog,every dog or cat/animal is different.
I know i was bitten by ex police alsation,who was scared shatless by fireworks and it isnt nice
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Peter Fitness

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2009, 10:14:57 pm »

I mentioned this in another thread on the same subject, but the sale of fireworks is banned in most Australian states, without a licence, and has been for a number of years. Organised displays are still held, even small ones, but a licence must be obtained first. Needless to say there are still those who manage to circumvent the law, and occasionally illegal fireworks are let off, terrifying most of the local dogs. Strangely, our Corgi doesn't seem to mind too much.

You still occasionally read of some young person being seriously injured by fireworks, which is one of the reasons they were banned in the first place - that and stupid idiots blowing up people's letter boxes and the like.

Peter.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2009, 10:21:01 pm »

Three kids have just been charged with manslaughter in the UK for putting a firework through a wonan's letter box. She died in the subsequent fire.

Given the number of superb organised displays available therse days, I can't understand why people would want to do their own displays which are rather pathetic by comparison.

Colin
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craftysod

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Re: FIREWORKS
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2009, 10:31:26 pm »

The trouble is Colin, the general public can get hold of industrial fireworks quite easy nowadays.
But i agree with you,a proper display makes the household one look pathetic.
But the cretins that like to blow things up that make people suffer will never go
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