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Author Topic: interested in subs  (Read 4881 times)

Klunk

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interested in subs
« on: November 30, 2009, 06:25:59 PM »

Right, I have searched the forums and read some books and am interested in a Static dive sub. Any ideas how to actually build one as I'm short of cash and would really like to scratch build one./ Have looked at the undine plans and think that may be a good way to go, but need to find more info about wtc and their layouts as I'm not sure what config to go for!
Also have a type VII  uboat from Revell which I might make into a surface runner first to test a few things out.

Any links would be welcome !!!
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hollowhornbear

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2009, 07:24:06 PM »

hi klunk the Undine is dynamic dive (requires forward motion to submerge). I'm just starting in subs myself and have a robbe seawolf.
Im sure mankster, U33 or subculture will chip in with more info, As they have plenty of experience also check out the subs section of Beginners start here. if you check out this vid the first sub is Undine made to look like a typeVII.
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hollowhornbear

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2009, 08:57:29 PM »

oops forgot the link, here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDTc5boyZ0
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Subculture

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2009, 10:33:07 PM »

Do you own a lathe or have access to one and have a reasonably well equipped workshop?

What books have you read on the subject?

Have you built a model submarine of any kind before?

How experienced are you with working different kinds of plastic like PVC, acrylic and polycarbonate?

Klunk

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 09:01:17 AM »

do not have a lathe (am working on getting one) can work with wood metal and acrylics, have electrical experience and know enough about compreesors not to kill myself!
Workshop is totally cluttered but it can be cleared.
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Klunk

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2009, 09:03:37 AM »

read the basic submarine book and getting the traplet publication. Have started to build a TYPE VII revell kit, have also done rc aircraft, boats and helicopters (MFA 500 and concept 30's!)
Have read the forum thru for info and been on rc subsites.
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Subculture

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2009, 10:09:29 AM »

I would recommend you get a copy of 'Model Submarine technology' by Norbert Bruggen from Traplet. It's a tough read, but covers all the basic principles of making sound watertight enclosures, including best practice for sealing and construction. Ballast system are covered in a great deal of detail, as well as trim and auxiliary systems.

The electronics in the book are somewhat dates, and these days it's a lot easier and less expensive to purchase these items commercially.

A lathe makes things much easier when it comes to constructing endcaps, glanded shafts etc. However it's not essential.

I would recommend you purchase a commercial shaft seal from Sub tech. These are special low friction seals, design to prevent the ingress of water, and are reasonably price. Some people get by with a grease filled propshaft, and it works, but the shaft seal is better.

I would personally recommend you start off by constructing a dynamic diver. When you are confident with building a watertight enclosure, trimming a boat out, then you can add a ballast system. I would also recommend you build a cylindrical watertight enclosure rather than a box. Although the latter can work well enough, there is far more room for error IMO.

Experience with helicopters will serve you well. In many respects model submarines have far more in common with flying machines than surface craft. The same basic principles apply, you are just 'flying' through a much denser fluid, which is good deal less forgiving than air.

Just like a model heli, placement of centre of gravity is critical, and you should replace the centre of lift, with the centre of buoyancy, the force acting up on our submarines.

For the sub to have a level trim, these two forces must aligned vertically. The greater the height between these two forces, the more stable the boat is.

In other words, keep the heavy things low in the boat.

Flying Sparks

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 01:10:00 PM »

Hi Klunk

I Helped my son build HMS Unseen from the free plan in the Traplet submarine special magazine. It's a dynamic diver, great fun and cheap (and easy) to build. My son has ambitions to build a static diver but he needs to save quite a bit of money to go down that route. Unseen has been a good, cheap fun way to get him started.

Good luck

Phil.
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Subculture

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 02:00:55 PM »

My son has ambitions to build a static diver but he needs to save quite a bit of money to go down that route.

A static diver will be more expensive to build than a dynamic diver. However if you have the skills and have basic tools, you can build a static diver for about 15-20 more than a dynamic boat.

The Unseen/Undine design can be adapted to a static diver. It would benefit from being made a little larger if using standard size RC gear.

Flying Sparks

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 10:13:15 PM »

Quote
A static diver will be more expensive to build than a dynamic diver. However if you have the skills and have basic tools, you can build a static diver for about 15-20 more than a dynamic boat.

The Unseen/Undine design can be adapted to a static diver. It would benefit from being made a little larger if using standard size RC gear.

For his next sub my son wants to build a scale design, the ones he shows are are a LOT more money, several hundred pounds just for the hull. But a the moment he's having fun with Unseen, so hopefully this will keep him happy whilst he saves some money.

Phil.
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Subculture

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 10:22:01 PM »

Ahh right. Yes the cost does ramp up rather quickly when you start venturing into scale GRP hulls. Any subject in particular? Secondhand hulls can be picked up quite cheaply, as can partially completed or unstarted kits.

Flying Sparks

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2009, 07:41:12 AM »

Quote
Ahh right. Yes the cost does ramp up rather quickly when you start venturing into scale GRP hulls. Any subject in particular? Secondhand hulls can be picked up quite cheaply, as can partially completed or unstarted kits

I don't think it matters too much which sub he builds although the Akula has been mentioned a few time. He's more concerned that it will be static diving. Then I remind him he needs to save some money. I agree a secondhand boat is probably the best way to go.

Thanks

Phil.
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Subculture

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2009, 10:17:03 AM »

Lot's of Sheerline Akulas kicking about. The Scale Ships hull is the most accurate, but it has it's caveats.

You might want to look at the Kehrer Alfa hull. Very similar in looks, nice small size, good hull, not too expensive.

http://www.jet-drive.de

Desi

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2009, 01:43:44 PM »



Take a look at this... great looking Akula, seems like a very good price for all that you get as part of the kit!

http://www.scaleships.biz/eng/akula.html
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Deep Diver

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2009, 01:46:27 PM »

http://www.sarik-vacform.com  try this one, my first sub was from them, :-)) I think the cost now is about 55:00 +P/P then all you have to do is kit it out.
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Klunk

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2009, 05:00:49 PM »

both very good sites thanks. I'm now wishing I had not got rid of the Dumas Akula I had!!! (sold for 30) It was too advanced for me when I bought it as a second hand model that had been stripped down but not put back together, there was also lots missing!
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787Eng

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2009, 12:57:19 PM »

Lot's of Sheerline Akulas kicking about.

A member in my club has one and has got my intrest up so I would love to get my hands on a reasonable model....
Where do I start to look?
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Subculture

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2009, 04:14:06 PM »

Well you can get a new one by contacting Sheerline, who is a member of this board.

You can look for secondhand ones on ebay, small ads in the model boating publications (lots of subs often spring up- folk sometimes bite off more than they can chew) and of course this website.

sheerline

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2009, 05:15:09 PM »

 If you are on a tight budget, one small word of warning when searching for second hand subs. I have encountered a lot of these and some I have seen have been put together with epoxy resin. I never advise using this particular adhesive when building my kits as I have had many an occassion where components simply pull apart or have detatched. Some of this is down to bad preparation of surfaces or maybe poorly mixed adhesive, but generally, it appears unsuitable. I always advise using a polyester resin/glass mixture for bonding components as the hulls themselves are glassfibre. This is something to be aware of if you are looking around for a second hand Sheerline boat. It needn't stop you buying it of course, but it might mean a bit of input on your part to rectify any problems in this area.
 I am more than happy to advise and help where I can so if you end up with a used Sheerline boat, I still make all the bits as well as all the kits.
Good hunting.......Chris
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Klunk

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2009, 06:08:16 PM »

I am probably going to get my Dumas Akula back. It was originally a static kit, and looking at the home made static articles above, there is a distinct similarity in some of the parts that were in the box that I could not figure what they were! (ie a small copper tube sealed at both ends with a bike valve welded to it!!)
Once I get the kit back off my friend I will take some pics and put them up so you can advise!!
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787Eng

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Re: interested in subs
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2009, 06:18:56 PM »

All,
Thanks for the information, very usefull. The thought of a Flebay Sub makes me shudder.
I'll just have to keep my eye's open on here.

Mark
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