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Author Topic: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"  (Read 5525 times)

chrise

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I don't understand why there is such a bias in standard design model tug thinking against Steerable Kort Nozzles.  <:( Both the Mini Tug Towing topic & the Springer design do not allow steerable Kort Nozzles. Why? They improve towing enormously & should be encouraged & not banned.  :-))  If you go to one of the "professional" tug towing events you will see little else so why ban them elsewhere?

Korts are easily & very cheaply (cheaper than brass blades in standard rudders) made from plastic tube with bathroom waste 40mm at the small end & 110mm drainpipe at the larger end & they improve tug agility enormously & help a model get near the agility of a real modern tug with its advanced drive systems. They are also available commercially from Mobile Marine Models & others. You can use perfectly standard propellers with them without any difficulty. The motor/ prop in the first photo is a Graupner Multispeed 380 2:1 exactly as supplied by Graupner & ideal for beginners.

The boat in the first photo below was made in 1990 & it still works just fine. The Kort is based on a sink drainage pipe of 40mm. The second photo is based on 3.5inch drain pipe.

Neither was made particularily well - just look at the photos - both were made by someone (me) in their first 6 months of modelling who cringes at the photos now & both are still in one piece & working after 20 years. I provide the pictures to demonstrate just how basic they can be! They both give great agility to the models that they are attached to. 

Or is it that most modellers are stuck in the 1950's???  %)

There that should be provocative enough to get some discussion.
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boatmadman

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 04:47:06 PM »

My springer has twin 50mm steerable korts - but dont tell anyone  :-))
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Arrow5

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 04:53:58 PM »

The original concept of the Springer Class was simplicity and one design. You dont take your Ford to an Austin rally.
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chrise

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 05:01:27 PM »

I think Korts are simpler. I find them much easier to make than cutting sheet brass.

As I said above I am NOT trying to redesign the Springer just asking why it was designed that way & why "not Kort" appears standard when I would say "why not".
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 05:30:09 PM »


For the Springers, we had to come up with an agreed  set of "rules"and Korts were voted out... as were larger motors, twin motors
and batteries above 7.2volts. As arrow5 states, 'simplicity and one design', ( and thanks again for introducing us to Springers.) :-))

The concept, for me, was to have  simple, cheap, tough, fun boat, so when little Johnny crashes his RC car and can't afford to fix it,
his dad can build him a Springer utilizing many of the car parts.


That said, I have one of those ready made brass rudders (large size, shortened) and my Springer can turn in it's own length
at 3/4 throttle!

Boatmadman  <*<
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norry

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 06:39:22 PM »

...Hi Guys...

If I am correct, The thinking was that Single Screw Tug Towing competitions were being introduced to allow members who have older traditional style tugs take part in Tug-Towing Events as well...

Then along came Mr Trophy Collector with his Single Screw Tug which was purposely built for Single Screw Comps and was fitted with a Big Steerable Kort Nozzle & sometimes a Working Bow Thruster and a Working Winch and literally wiped the floor with the older style tugs...

The Rules were then altered to make the competition fairer again  for the more Traditional Older Tugs...


...Best Regards...Norry ...


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andygh

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2009, 09:20:37 PM »

Hey, they're the rules, if you don't like 'em





















Ignore 'em  :-))

Quote
Or is it that most modellers are stuck in the 1950's??? 


Steady, some on here haven't got used to the 1850's yet  %% {-)
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chrise

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 11:04:17 PM »

I agree that the prop design should be appropriate for the model. A Tid with a Kort would simply be wrong to my eyes but most harbour/ coastal/ river tugs built since say 1950 will have a drive system that is much more advanced than the traditional prop/rudder. This includes tugs down to log bronc size which seem to have as wide a variety of propulsion as bigger tugs.

Given that I see at least as many modern tugs modelled as traditional ones I still am surprised that whenever a "standard" design is suggested it must have an old rudder & prop.

Martin, Can your tug turn that well when going astern? 
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andygh

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 01:07:02 AM »

The thing is though, it's not meant to be a scale model of a real boat, it's a one design boat for competitions. You can build yours exactly how you want, you just wont be able to enter any competitions that hold strictly to the rules.

Personally I built mine how I wanted it but I won't be competing, I use it purely as a fun/rescue boat
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ZZ56

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 02:17:23 AM »

...Hi Guys...

If I am correct, The thinking was that Single Screw Tug Towing competitions were being introduced to allow members who have older traditional style tugs take part in Tug-Towing Events as well...

Then along came Mr Trophy Collector with his Single Screw Tug which was purposely built for Single Screw Comps and was fitted with a Big Steerable Kort Nozzle & sometimes a Working Bow Thruster and a Working Winch and literally wiped the floor with the older style tugs...

The Rules were then altered to make the competition fairer again  for the more Traditional Older Tugs...


...Best Regards...Norry ...




Sorry for the dumb questions, but when you say 'purposely built' do you mean the boat was constructed not as a true-scale model but as a sort of idealized miniature vessel?  And, how are the various classes organized?
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 04:02:38 AM »

Martin, Can your [Springer] tug turn that well when going astern? 

About two boat lengths.
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amdaylight

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Re: Why Ban Steerable Kort Nozzles in Standard Designs - Springer & "Mini Tug"
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 04:24:25 AM »

The reason for the rule is the same reason that particular classes racing have weight, engine size, wheel base and height limitations. A group of people in the Great Pacific Northwet way back when came up with the design for the Springer Tug thought that this what they wanted and then it has migrated all over the world. The original rules were for a single screw boat with a rudder. Then came several classes of Springers, mini (1/2 size) Jumbo (2 x size) and all of the Springers that are based on the springer but either have a different motor, number of props or what have you. Toesup seems to go to some length to see what he can come uo with and still stay with in the rules. So as some one said " thems the rules" we didn'g write them we just live with them. So if you want to build a springer with a kort nozzel go ahead jsut realize that it may not be alowed to play at some event in the Springer Competition but in the open competition.

Andre
over yonder n Portland Oregon
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