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Author Topic: German Engineering.... cars mainly!  (Read 15285 times)

andygh

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2009, 05:52:46 pm »

Quote
Never had a tvr then?.even when they were built by hand in britain they fell to bits

No, never had a Morgan either  ;D
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sheerline

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2009, 05:59:44 pm »

Had a Golf,what a pile, bought it for swmbo, ... , will never own another. Unwilling 1.8 petrol engine, massive understeer and roll if caned, fuel consumption lousy, iffy electrics and to cap it all, VW service... got to be the worst I have experienced.
Her Honda is like a breath of fresh air after that thing.
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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2009, 07:23:46 pm »

I own a BMW Mini Cooper S. Unlike a lot of other modern cars, it's an enthusiasts car, so lots of info on servicing, plenty of third party companies supplying bits to keep dealer prices down.

I've had it seven years now, and it still looks and drives nice. Great build quality combined with snappy looks and decent handling.

On the minus side, like most modern cars, it's too heavy (over a ton in weight!!) and is a bit thirsty around town. The later car with it's direct injection turbocharged lump is a lot more efficient, but I would miss the whine of the Eaton blower, and I'm not that keen on the looks of the R56 mini.
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Nordsee

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2009, 02:24:41 pm »

Your"BMW" Mini is built in Britain, only the name is BMW.The car was developed by ex Rover Workers. The reason it is big and heavy is because fat Germans couldn't get into the old Mini. After  Rover was bought by the Germans as a very succesful Manufactorer, the Germans destroyed the Company by insisting on their style of Management. They installed Germans in all supervisory posts, built a Restuarant serving German food(which was flown in fresh every day) solely for the Germans.This little luxury cost the Company 1.6 Million pounds a year. After ruining the Company, they Asset Stripped it, keeping the Mini for themselves and selling Land Rover and Jaguar to Ford.
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gondolier88

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2009, 07:46:07 pm »

One question Nordsee- why?

Why would one of the best (behind Audi %)) car makers in the world see itself needing to destroy Rover  {-) {-) {-) Thats like Man Utd buyong all the shares in a sunday league football club then absolving the team to advance their business!!!!!!! {-) {-) {-)

Here's a quote from Wiki';

Quote
The car, whose first generation was designed by Frank Stephenson,[1] draws inspiration from the original Mini, which was manufactured by the British Motor Corporation and its successors from 1959 to 2000. The name of the car's brand, MINI, is all-capitalized to distinguish it from its predecessor.[2] Development of the first generation had been done between 1995 and 2001 by Rover Group in Gaydon, United Kingdom and BMW AG in Munich, Germany and was accompanied by continual contention between Rover and BMW. Especially the positioning of the car was contended. Rover wanted an economy car, whilst BMW supported a small sporting car and finally prevailed. In 1999 BMW assumed control over the whole project after BMW's CEO Bernd Pischetsrieder had left the company.[3] When BMW divested itself of Rover in 2000, BMW decided to keep the Mini project and to move the planned production of the car, from Rover's Longbridge plant,[3] the former production plant of the traditional Mini, to BMW's Oxford plant in Cowley, Oxford, United Kingdom, in what was historically the Pressed Steel Company body plant.[4]

The 2001 to 2006 model years included four hatchback models: the basic "Mini One", the diesel-engined "Mini One/D", the sportier "Mini Cooper" and the supercharged "Mini Cooper S". In 2005, a convertible roof option was added. In November 2006 BMW released a re-engineered version of the Mini which is unofficially known as the "Mk II Mini".[5] The Mk II is currently[update] available as a hatchback and a wagon (Clubman). The convertible was still based on the MK 1 until January 2009, when a Mk2 variant was launched.

The MINI is a British Car- however BMW made the right decision regarding which way to take the demographic market- imagine if it had been a tarted up City Rover like Rover wanted it to be- probably would have killed them even quicker.

I'm all for Britsh design, British building and British driving, however Rover never was, nor it seems, still is a very good car manufacturer and that's a terrible fact.

Greg
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sheerline

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2009, 09:21:47 am »

My old 6 cyl SD1 had a shocking reputation for lousy build quality and reliability, most had engines go out on them at some point due to cracked cylinder heads. Mine was fine, I loved it and never had any problems, but thats because I didn't thrash it and changed the engine oil well before it was due each time. I think , due to my attentions, I never even needed the tappets done in 95000 miles! Then, along came the 214 series, nice little car... rubbush engine! It too suffered from cracking cylinder heads. Every one of those I looked at had oil in the engine coolant.
I don't think Rover has designed a decent engine since the 50s, the only engines which had a decent reputation were the V8 (American) or the Japanese engines fitted to some of the later models. If it hadn't been for these I think that company would have gone down the plug hole years ago.   
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Subculture

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2009, 12:41:26 pm »

The k-series engine was a good engine, but was spoilt by a few design flaws, most of which were corrected during production, but too late to stop it gettign a bad reputation. It was one of the first truely optimised production engines, and if you compare the weight of that engine you might be surprised how light it is compared to some other manufacurers models.

Back in the 70's Issigonis had a project going called the 9x. The intention was to replace the Mini, it was lighter, smaller, but more spacious. It featured a far superior overhead camshaft engine, with a much improved gearbox

Although not as pretty as Issigonis' mini, with it's squared off '70's styling (ever the pragmatist),  it was very far ahead of the competition.

http://www.aronline.co.uk/index.htm?super9xf.htm



The whole lot got canned by the company, and we got the All-aggro and metro instead.

However there is a good mini car being designed by a British company. It's called the T2.5 and has been designed by Gordon Murray. Very interesting concept.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.ASpx?AR=242828
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gondolier88

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2009, 06:37:01 pm »

Best supermini available at the moment is the Suzuki Swift sport, a proper mini for the 21st century- cute, quick, amazing handling, cheap to run and most of all a design classic- they won't be changing it in a while!

But they aren't German so I can't say any more in fear of hijacking yet another thread!!!!!!!!!

Greg
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sheerline

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2009, 09:40:50 pm »

Your safe Gregg, it's usually me that b-gg-rs up the threads!
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polaris

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2009, 07:06:32 pm »


Dear All,

You know the one thing that puzzles me a bit, is that Germany continues to produce vehicles with unnecessarily large cc. engines - even Top Gear said this recently with some tests on some people carriers - with massive high power/performance engines. Germany being part of the EU surely tows the EU emission standards protocols??? - or is it another case of we and the French were in the EEC first so we will and can do what we like???

Regards, Bernard
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gondolier88

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2009, 08:52:56 pm »

No, we and the french just havn't got the budget of VAG to produce the new tech' that they can, along with BMW- the TFSI engines are just the most amazing advance in IC engineering in the past 10 years- they use a supercharger AND a turbo, combining the two in a specific chamber PER cylinder, not a common plenum chamber- a 2.0 TFSI engine on top tune produces 200hp, and the same emmisions as a 1.6 normally aspirated engine, they have also introduced (copying BMW I might add) the auto engine cutout when the car stops which is wierd to drive at first but you soon get used to it.

However, the Audi RS6 with the same V10 as the Lambo' Gallardo, although an amazing engineering feat, and the height of discreet 'boy racer' beating, is pointless.

But i'd love one, maybe thats the point!

Greg
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polaris

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2009, 10:51:09 am »


Dear Greg,

I meant to say the Germans and French seem to consider that since they were in the EEC first that they can do nearly whatever they like... However...!

The two vehicles that were tested on this partic. Top Gear, were people carrier type vehicles putting out 300 + hp.. Merc. and a BMW I think they were. The consensus was that the fuel consumption was not very good, and such vehicles would be extremely expensive to tun in GB. One of these vehicles I think was a V12.

Pity BMW etc., etc., don't concentrate on making smaller but high efficiency engines that would push out more power, as opposed to large engines using lot's of fuel with emissions similar to smaller engines.

The idea these days is, I thought, to save and conserve fuel, rather than still burn lot's of it albeit with less emissions.

Regards, Bernard

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BarryM

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2009, 01:35:16 pm »

Dear Greg,

I meant to say the Germans and French seem to consider that since they were in the EEC first that they can do nearly whatever they like... However...!

The two vehicles that were tested on this partic. Top Gear, were people carrier type vehicles putting out 300 + hp.. Merc. and a BMW I think they were. The consensus was that the fuel consumption was not very good, and such vehicles would be extremely expensive to tun in GB. One of these vehicles I think was a V12.

Pity BMW etc., etc., don't concentrate on making smaller but high efficiency engines that would push out more power, as opposed to large engines using lot's of fuel with emissions similar to smaller engines.

The idea these days is, I thought, to save and conserve fuel, rather than still burn lot's of it albeit with less emissions.

Regards, Bernard




Bernard,

You got it right in the first sentence. The French, in particular, don't care how anything is done as long as it's done there way. As an otherwise charming French neighbour snorted, " We are French - we don't care what anybody else thinks".

Cheers,

Barry M
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Nordsee

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2010, 04:44:40 pm »

Dear All,

You know the one thing that puzzles me a bit, is that Germany continues to produce vehicles with unnecessarily large cc. engines - even Top Gear said this recently with some tests on some people carriers - with massive high power/performance engines. Germany being part of the EU surely tows the EU emission standards protocols??? - or is it another case of we and the French were in the EEC first so we will and can do what we like???

Regards, Bernard
I think the reason for this is because there are no speed limits on the Autobahns, well there are ,but only in  built-up areas, and so they need cars or vehicles that can do 220+ kms an hour. In a recent German Car TV programme they tested Electric cars and the only critisim was they could only manage 160 kms an hour. The fact that such a speed would cost you your license in any other EU Country , was not mentioned! There was actually a motion put before the EU Parliament that German Drivers should be allowed to drive as fast as they want to, as they have the experience! It was not passed !! Germans must always have the biggest car, or house, it is part of their make up.There s a saying " You never work with a German, you work for him"
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gondolier88

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2010, 09:14:33 pm »

Yes, but they work for the Americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! %)

Nordsee,

Speed is not dependant on power- it is dependant on efficiency and a good transmission setup- why BMW's have 7 forward gears on a 3.0L engine- sort the engine out, put a good transmission in and away you go.

The real reason is that these manufacturers can, so they do, and there are the people with the money out there that are willing to buy these mobile status symbols.

Greg
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dreadnought72

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2010, 09:42:57 am »

Having just read this entire thread, can I just add that I own the best German car currently manufactured?

(It's a Skoda Superb.)

Andy
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BarryM

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2010, 11:50:47 am »

Yes, but they work for the Americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! %)

Nordsee,

Speed is not dependant on power- it is dependant on efficiency and a good transmission setup- why BMW's have 7 forward gears on a 3.0L engine- sort the engine out, put a good transmission in and away you go.

The real reason is that these manufacturers can, so they do, and there are the people with the money out there that are willing to buy these mobile status symbols.

Greg

On the other hand, all the rear-wheel drive BMW around here are sitting in driveways or abandoned because they can't cope with snow or ice. Fair weather cars only.  {-)
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Nordsee

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2010, 03:37:54 pm »

On the other hand, all the rear-wheel drive BMW around here are sitting in driveways or abandoned because they can't cope with snow or ice. Fair weather cars only.  {-)No, it is the Drivers. They have learnt on Front wheel Drive, so cannot drive a "Real" car. Also with all the electronic aids they should be Ok. Why or why, do you need a 3 litre lump and 7 gears in a country with roads like yours?1200cc would be plenty, and 5 gears are enough for anyone

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BarryM

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2010, 03:58:07 pm »

I hear what you say.  %)

Barry M
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: German Engineering.... cars mainly!
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2010, 05:38:56 pm »

On the other hand, all the rear-wheel drive BMW around here are sitting in driveways or abandoned because they can't cope with snow or ice. Fair weather cars only.  {-)

I don't think it's the cars it's the Cr*p Drivers, last snow like this I was driving a MK2 escort and other's where driving Capr's,i Cortinas etc, these had no traction controle clever tyres ESP antilock brakes and the like and we had no problems, and mine had about the same power as a lot of BMW's have now.

Peter
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