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Author Topic: motor control  (Read 7154 times)

colin-stevens

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motor control
« on: April 23, 2006, 09:14:49 am »

just building a lifeboat and will want to work on twin motors. on previos models i have thrown a mixer in to the cct so the rudder will proportoinaly controll the motors. thing is the mixer is touchy. takes a very fine feel on the stick to get it to work properly. this may be down to,
1. electronize speed control, that have been around the block
2. action mixer
3. old and abbused radio rig
4. crap operator.
thinking about byuing a new tranny. is there one that will do the mixing i want in the box?  someone was talking about the navy f-14, didnt like it and reckomended the futaba something or other computer set. is this that addaptable?cant now find the thread
if not do the the speed controll and mixer want to be a matched set?
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Daryl

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Re: motor control
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 12:06:12 pm »

Hi Colin,
You might like to consider the Futaba EXA it has 6 channels and built in mixe. I,ve got one and is quite pleased with it. I got mine from Phil's models at ?60 + P+P. Howesin Kidlington is another place to look as they have special deals on RC bits.

Regards
Daryl
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ron h

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Re: motor control
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2006, 03:24:59 pm »

You might find that on WARSHIPS , Vic build if I remember rightly, ron h
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John W E

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Re: motor control
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2006, 04:09:55 pm »

Hi there Colin,

What radio gear are you using?

Reason I ask this, is I have the same set up as you on one of my models, two Electronize Speed Controllers, which are the 15 amp variety.  One Action mixer and I was using a Hi-Tec Radio Focus 6 - on this Hi-Tec setup, the mixer was very very dodgy.  It was as though I was getting 'dead=-spots' and cross mixing between the rudder channel and the throttle channel with a 3rd channel - it gave me a few headaches, but, when I swapped over to Futaba transmitter receiver WALLA - no problemo. 

Also, the new Action mixer takes a little bit getting used to - when you switch your set on, I was advised by the manufacturers to wait a minute or two to let the Pic chip in the mixer sort itself out and find out where it was, as though it didnt know that it was in a box with the other components  ;D .
I do this and it seems to work okay.   I found that if you dont wait, anything can happen, props go in the same direction, doesnt matter what you do, rudders go in the opposite direction to where you want them to go, but, if you switch it off and then on and leave it for a while, it works.

Aye
John E
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Colin Bishop

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Re: motor control
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2006, 04:45:00 pm »

There was a long running thread about this on the old MB site with lots of useful info - now probably lost! I am not too keen on mixers myself as they don't always do what you want. Very often the boat creeps backwards or forwards when you don't want it to or one motor speeds up more than the other etc. I have a Futaba 6EXA and wanted some steering options so I converted the left stick back to spring centring - you can buy the bits for this - and rigged the model end so that a switch controlled by the RX toggles between separate control of the motors on the two TX sticks and slaving them together on the left hand stick. I use the landing gear switch on top of the 6EXA to change modes. Works OK in the bath anyway. This gives conventional control for general sailing but for close quarters manoeuvering you can have independent control at the flick of a switch!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: motor control
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2006, 04:47:15 pm »

My God, it won't even allow the word f*l*i*c*k, I wonder if it censors this too? The word I used means "cinema film".
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justboatonic

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Re: motor control
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 10:56:47 pm »

Hmmm. This is interesting reading! Im in the market for a mixer for Drumbeat to slow the inside motor during turns. I prefer using the car steer wheel Tx rather than the RC aircraft style Tx. Is the Action mixer crap then?
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CAD2

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Re: motor control
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2006, 09:13:55 am »

I have two of ACTion's mixers and had the same problem with the Focus 6 set-up. This was finally solved by changing the ESC's to types which had a self-setting neutral i.e. they didn't assume that the tranny was pushing out 1.5 pulses per millisecond when the stick was in the middle. I must say that this was Craig Talbot's suggestion and that he replaced the two original ESC's absolutely free of charge "just so you can see if it works". Nice guy. The Focus 6 I have has a neutral around 1.7mS, which is well away from Futaba sets etc. The Ranger 3 - which is also a Hi-Tech unit - works fine with either type of ESC. I gather that Astec do a similar mixer but I haven't tried any of their stuff, being well happy with ACTion gear.
CAD2
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johno 52-11

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Re: motor control
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2006, 01:20:15 pm »

My friend runs his 1/12 Severn with an F14-Navy without any mixers. He has twin throttles on the left rudder on the right and the trim tabs and bow thruster on slides in the middle. It makes for great control, as you?re not trying to work out what the mixer is going to do. You have full control over each motor the rudder and the bow thruster this makes for easy control forwards backwards or sideways just like the real thing.
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John W E

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Re: motor control
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2006, 08:50:21 pm »

Hi there,
justboatonic? & CAD2

and All,

I wouldnt say the AcTion Mixer is crap, its far from it, it just takes a little bit of getting used to and you have to be prepared to adjust certain things.? ?When we think about it, the mixer was first developed for a two-channel set, to give the operator of the two-channel set, the same advantages as the multi-channel set, having control of 2 motors.

I note justboatonic that you are going to try the TX with a wheel, it will be interesting to hear how you get along with this, because I presume this is either a 3 channel or a 4 channel set.? CAD2, like you I have never tried an Astec Mixer, but I have used a Hunter system mixer, which I found very very 'harsh' in the control of the motor speed and direction.? It seems to go from Slow ahead, to full ahead in one slight movement of the stick.? There does not seem to be a 'deadband' between ahead and astern.? It is all or nothing in one direction.

This mixer is, in my opinion, to be viewed with caution.

No doubt someone else will have had satisfactory results.

Aye
John E
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riggers24

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Re: motor control
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 08:58:23 pm »

Hi there,
justboatonic  & CAD2

and All,

I wouldnt say the AcTion Mixer is crap,

How did you get  word in, has the filters been changed ;)

riggers
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riggers24

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Re: motor control
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 09:01:26 pm »

Get back to the this thread, electronize I have heard are working on a twin ESC with combined mixer in one unit but don't hold your breathe.

riggers
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John W E

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Re: motor control
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 09:31:15 pm »

Hi there - was on the phone to them through the week and as Riggers says, dont hold your breath, but they promise within the next MONTH, there should be something on the shelf.? ? They also said that, last February and there was no sign of it....the only thing I got from them was ITS GOING TO BE A TWIN SPEED CONTROLLER 10 AMPS RATING (approx) with the mixer built in.? All in one case WOW? ::) Price: ?1 1/2K (only joking)? ;D? - in the region of the price of 2 SINGLE 15amp speed controllers.

But dont quote me on this? :-\

I will just keep sampling the amber nectar.....and trying to drill holes through me finger

and now can you tell me why my fingers are superglued to the mouse....

Aye
John E
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Andy

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Re: motor control
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2006, 08:00:13 pm »

Hi

I know someone who makes a esc/mixer for twin motor control - 20amp
max and up to 14volts with/without bec ( also water proof ).
I've been using them in surface and sub's as well as other club members for
sometime now.
If anyone interested let me know and I'll pass you on.
He charges 55 quid for the above.

Andy
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flag-d

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Re: motor control
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2006, 10:53:15 pm »

I have a 4 motor MTB and was going to use a mixer to aid turns but heard storoes about 'mixed-up' mixers, so decided on independant port and stbd motor control, in pairs, using an F-14 Navy.  Have to say that I'm pleased with the results though the F-14 is a bit cheap-feeling for the purchase price.  Hey ho, you win some, you lose some!

Mike
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aston

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Re: motor control
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2006, 12:01:06 am »

justboatonic,  if you just want to slow the inside motor to help with turns, why not go for the simple option and just stop it completely.  My old mum has a system on two of her boats where a linkage to the rudder servo operates a pair of microswitches so that when you put part rudder on it just runs as normal, but when you put full rudder on, it turns off the inside motor.  Works just the same forwards or astern, in fact her Waveney class Lifeboat has an impressive turning circle going astern and will change direction very smartly.  Her Lochmor is nearly as good. :D

You can either run a linkage from the rudder servo to the switches, stick  "Y" lead in and run the switches from another servo, or use the "Y" lead and an electronic switch unit.  Either way, it's very effective, economical, and uses the world famous KISS system - Keep It Simple, Stupid  :o

Aston
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