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[regiment]

so the cabin crew of british airways are on strike reason they cannot live on 30000  50000 ayear  try i living on the minmum wage  or my pension should think them selves lucky  thay have a job if not happy get another job if you can find one.. news today 21000 more on the dole the way ba are going  could end up with no money no job  regiment

[riggers24]

I have a spanish friend who is going home to Madrid for Christmas but due to working in between Christmas and New Year, she is then flyingback out before New Year's eve. She has had her trip booked and paid for 6 months. So that her holiday up the swannie. 

[DickyD]

Would you say the BA flight crew are after the public's sympathy ?

[Colin Bishop]

Seems very similar to the postal strike, both sides are only interested in scrapping with each other and to hell with the customers.

Colin

[DickyD]

Richard Branson must be loving this.
Soon be more second hand planes on the market and Routes going begging.

Wouldn't have minded a job like their's meself £37,000 a year to push a trolley about.

[Ghost in the shell]

Richard Branson must be loving this.
Soon be more second hand planes on the market and Routes going begging.

Wouldn't have minded a job like their's meself £37,000 a year to push a trolley about.

...and to see exotic destinations (sort of)

[Bryan Young]

If, and I repeat "if", this strike comes into being; to alleviate the shortage of seats on planes, would it not be possible for BA to temporarily lease their planes to other airlines with everything intact apart from the passenger cabin staff? I should think that this would give a great boost to everyone except the well and truly stuffed people who are being led by the nose by a "Union" that really should climb out of a 1970s mind-set. BY.

[DickyD]

Brilliant BY 

[Colin Bishop]

If, and I repeat "if", this strike comes into being; to alleviate the shortage of seats on planes, would it not be possible for BA to temporarily lease their planes to other airlines with everything intact apart from the passenger cabin staff?

Novel idea Bryan. I suppose you could set up a buffet in the business class section (not many passengers there at the moment) and the cattle class could just graze whenever they felt like it.

Apparently Virgin are already juggling with their fleet to put larger capacity aircraft on the routes likely to be affected.

There was an intriguing article in today's paper which suggested that, while the average annual income for BA Heathrow staff is £30k, most airlines pay well under that down to £16k. Quite a big differential considering that the job must be pretty much identical on all aircraft. Somebody from BA's Gatwick operations contacted the BBC this morning and said that the new rosters had been implemented there some time back and staff had accepted them without any particular problems.

I suppose that Ryanair don't pay their staff anything except commission on sales!

There was also a report to the effect that on the Union side there is a lot of internal politics being played at the moment which confirms Bryan's point that the staff are being led by the nose.

Give me a ferry anytime!

Colin

[Shipmate60]

In this day and age why should companies just dictate the reduction in pay and conditions of the workforce.
It is the workforce that allow the company to trade and the Directors to take huge salaries and bonus's.
In the "good times" companies pay large dividends to shareholders and accept large share options but rarely put much or any aside for leaner times.
If you ran your finances that way you would be bankrupt!!
At last there is an upsurge in militancy to preserve the pay and conditions of the people who operate the aircraft.
Who caused the recession, greedy banking DIRECTORS.
Who pays for the bale out, you and I and thousands with their jobs.
Its funny how the how low cost carriers are still making a profit but BA who positioned itself for the higher ticket business traveler, (a decision taken at director level), has to shed jobs. but of course not directors jobs!!!!

And to ensure I declare an interest I am a Union Rep and have been proud to have been one for over 20 yrs.

[Shipmate60]

Colin,
As you know I have worked part time for a ferry company.
Their answer was to import crews from Poland in case there was any action.
The cost of the accommodation, training and working was the same as the 1 year payrise asked for.

Bob

[kenthompson]

Hi all,
    its a bit differant when you and your work mates are not  happy at work, and decide to go on strike for what ever reason,
    it dos`nt matter who you (we )upset as long as you (we )get what we are after, but because it upset us when others do it we
    get angry, yes I do feel sorry for the ones who loose their holliday, etc, etc,  but what goes around comes around...

ken

[Colin Bishop]

Bob,

As far as travelling by ferry is concerned I usually travel either P&O or Brittany Ferries.

The reason I prefer it is that the ferry almost always departs at the advertised time, it's generally comfortable, you can walk about and there is a choice of tolerably well cooked food - particularly on Brittany Ferries.

I usually make two or three flights a year and the aircraft is ALWAYS delayed, the seats are a form of torture and the food is, shall we say, interesting... We normally spend more time sitting around at the airport than the actual flight time and then have to hope that your luggage actually travelled on the same flight as you did.

I agree in general with your comments on greedy commercial practices and certainly the gap between the chiefs and the indians has become far too great in recent years in both the private and public sectors. I remained a member of a union through over 30 years of public service and am still affiliated in retirement.

However! BA is making huge losses and whether the bosses are taking too much out of the company makes little or no difference to the dire figures however morally reprehensible it may be. Yes, the low cost carriers are making a profit but it's them who are paying £16,000 pa which is hardly a living wage.

I am planning to visit Canada next year when my wife retires and maybe New Zealand after that before we get too old and decrepit. BA would have been one of my first options for flights but it sure isn't any longer!

No business, no jobs - It's not rocket science.

Colin

[Ghost in the shell]

Colin, im sure Delta would do the route, you may have to fly westbound on 3 jets though

London - Atlanta
Atlanta - Los Angeles
Los Angeles - Auckland

[Colin Bishop]

Ghost,

I have looked at this. The general consensus seems to be that the quality of the ride is significantly worse if you travel westbound from the UK irrespective of which airline you fly. The best bet is to fly eastbound both ways with a stopover at Hong Kong or Singapore as the 747s generally used on these routes tend to be more comfortable than the 777s used on the trans Pacific routes. You also have all the hassle associated with paranoid USA immigration even if you are just passing through.

I've also heard bad reports of the American carriers.

Colin

[FullLeatherJacket]

Thank you, Bob Blease, for putting the thing into perspective.
 
It's far too easy for folk to follow the media bandwagon and castigate the poor bloody workers - and that's what these folk are, regardless of whether or not you see them as glorified and/or overpaid bus drivers and conductors. It's not an easy decision to vote for a strike - I've been put in that position a few times myself in the past - and it's even harder when you know that circumstances will be contrived to make you and your fellow workers look like the villains of the piece. Ask your local postie how he/she feels about the press coverage of their latest industrial action; you'll find I'm pretty much bang on.

I've dealt on a daily basis with Managing Directors, Finance Directors, Company Secretaries and the like as part of my previous job and I know what makes a good one. IMHO Willie Walsh is a p**s poor manager; it's not his 'overpaid' staff who've got British Airways into the mess it's in. If he can take a profitable company, run it into the red and make his staff so angry and frustrated that they actually vote for a fortnight without any  pay then he has no business being in the job. I wonder if he's considered a career in merchant banking........................

FLJ
(I'm not biased, BTW - I cannot stand Michael O'Bloody Leary at any  price!!)

[Colin Bishop]

Good points FLJ but as a potential customer, a plague on both their houses! I'm no fan of Willie Walsh either but nor do I think that Unite have covered themselves with glory. There is a real risk that BA could go down the tubes on this one and both sides seem to be determined to take it out on the poor bl***y customers rather than acting as responsible adults in a precarious situation which impacts upon the very existence of the company.

I have been in exactly the same situation as yourself regarding possible strike action and on each occasion the situation has been characterised by total incompetence on both the management and union sides.

Colin

[Flying Sparks]

I would sack the lot them who choose to go on strike. What a cynical time to strike, over the Christmas holidays when thousand want to travel to be home with their families. Sorry, I have no sympathy with them, if they are not happy then they should go elswhere. When BA looses even more money after a strike they will have no jobs anyway.

Phil.

[Shipmate60]

Flying Sparks,
What you propose about sacking the strikers is of course ILLEGAL.
It is precisely this Dickensian attitude that has let to the rise of the "Macho Manager Syndrome" which is causing the Industrial Unrest we now see.
If you see the news it is a PROPOSED legal strike.
If the company is serious about stopping the strike all they have to do is hold meaningful talks.
Why is it ALWAYS the Trade Union workers who have to shoulder all the blame.
Short sighted reporting and short sighted readers/watchers who are unable to even contemplate both sides.
As has been said the participants won't want to lose 2 weeks pay over the Christmas Period either, but of course it is all their fault.
If they all left or were sacked who would be left to run the company, wouldn't that leave the travelers in an even worse position!!

But Union Bashing very rarely involves any joined-up thinking!!!

Bob

[DickyD]

Virgin reportedly pay their cabin crew an average of £14000 per annum and BA reportedly pay their cabin crew an average of £37000 per annum. Could this be part of the reason why the low cost airlines are making profits and the likes of BA aren't.
What are these people going to do when the redundancies start. Wonder if the unions will wake up in time.
I was also in a union, the TGWU and served as a shop steward, and I can safely say that the union was a waste of time as far as we were concerned, they were a load of dinosaurs who lived in the past and were only interested in taking the dues and supporting workers in large factories or industrial sites. We were left to sort out our problems locally and on our own.
Apparentley not joined up thinking.

[Bryan Young]

In this day and age why should companies just dictate the reduction in pay and conditions of the workforce.
It is the workforce that allow the company to trade and the Directors to take huge salaries and bonus's.
In the "good times" companies pay large dividends to shareholders and accept large share options but rarely put much or any aside for leaner times.
If you ran your finances that way you would be bankrupt!!
At last there is an upsurge in militancy to preserve the pay and conditions of the people who operate the aircraft.
Who caused the recession, greedy banking DIRECTORS.
Who pays for the bale out, you and I and thousands with their jobs.
Its funny how the how low cost carriers are still making a profit but BA who positioned itself for the higher ticket business traveler, (a decision taken at director level), has to shed jobs. but of course not directors jobs!!!!

And to ensure I declare an interest I am a Union Rep and have been proud to have been one for over 20 yrs.

In which case you should hang your petty little mind in shame.BY.

[Flying Sparks]

Bob

Of course what I suggested is illegal it was just my opinion for what it's worth. These people will not be be sacked for going on strike, but they should be as far as I'm concerned. They are just being greedy, edged on by overpaid union officials who need to flex their muscles to satisfy their own ego.

Phil.

[Shipmate60]

Bryan,
I hope you still agree while the RFA is privatised and the service set to take the financial cuts and crewing "at risk" that we have.
So money will of course be taken from the operational side and given to shareholders.

Dicky,
Glad you read and believe all that the Daily Mail prints.
So you would be very happy to be flown in a 747 which pays its senior captains sub £20,000 a year, a lot less than a Truck Driver which if you believe the published figures are all on over £40,000 a year. (yes I know they aren't)

Phil,
Most Union Reps (myself included) are unpaid and give up a lot of our spare time.
Why, because we actually care about our industry.
Ego, of course I have an ego but I couldn't just decide on a Strike there has to be a vote, (its called democracy),and the BA vote was 92% in favour of Industrial action.
So the Union Reps have hoodwinked almost all the workforce in BA.
Greedy, why should the crew take reductions an therefore have to cover the other posts?
Would you accept a pay cut, be expected to cover removed posts, or would you be greedy and expect that your job doesn't have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
If you are so concerned why don't you send a donation to help BA out and keep the directors on their inflated salary.

Bob

PS I am off my soapbox now so feel free to comment as I will not answer as I consider I have stated my position as a PROUD Trade Unionist!!

[andygh]

Thankyou Bob for talking some sense  . I really do think many people have a completely empty head until they're told what to think by Murdoch and his gang

[DickyD]

Bob we are not just talking pilots are we, the figures I was quoting was for stewardesses etc.
I dont read the Mail, I got the figures off ITN and BBC news.

Dont even mention truck drivers. We were told by our glorious union that we should carry on working during the lorry drivers strike because we were carrying food.

Pity the union didnt tell the rest of the drivers of the agreement.

I also remember the coal miners strike when I had a lump of concrete thrown through my windscreen from a bridge because I was delivering Calor gas heaters to South Wales Schools. Where was the union then ?

I used to deliver to Southampton docks. To unload one lorry, 2 forklift trucks and driver, two safety officers and two shop stewards. Two working, four watching and we all know where that led dont we.

Sorry but I've had my fill of unions, good idea in theory but like everything else in this country went to far.

By the way, I always assumed the employers employed the employees not the other way round.