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Author Topic: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!  (Read 49634 times)

red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 12:14:03 am »

To give an idea of what I mean by "cutting" the water, I have attached a pic of the boat making a tight 90 degree turn (see the water behind the boat). The boat is still bow up on a slight plane, but its sitting  in the water, not skating over it like a car drifting. A racing hull would probably skate, but a deep v hull is in the water, which makes it ideal for rougher water. At New Brighton (before the damned Swans arrived) on the same day I was able to do figure of eights, and when I crossed the centre of the eight it was quite exciting getting the boat to jump its own wake!

Derek cant say its perfect, but here you have an example of how good its handling (will cover vac forming again later! by the way), its not rolling over too far either, probably more by luck than judgement !! :}

Timewise we are now at September 2009, and approaching a quiet period due to lack of funds!. Round about this time, after only a few short tests, it was time to go Lipo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. It was my birthday so I invested in 2 x 3 cell 5000mah packs from China, Hobbyking to be exact. The esc was from Overlander in UK, and to recall was a Castle Creations 80amp Barracuda. I am going  to stress a point here. The service from Overlander is superb.I always prefer to support a UK shop in preference to overseas online, I am very sad about the demise of our modelshops, over the past few years I have lost 3 just on Wirral <:(  

Now You get what you pay for, buy cheap, get cheap. I helped a friend try and set up a Chinese cheapo esc, and it was horrible, all the things we dread, poor start up, poor reverse control etc etc (I know not all are like this, but it was very cheap!). The Barracuda like any of the Castle Creations esc's can be set up using audible control, control card, or for another tenner, you can buy a pc link lead, and set it up there, its so easy once you have installed the programme. Reverse is adjustable, if you want to limit the power, start up can be soft if required, and various running set ups can be set. Low voltage cut off (essential for lipo), low signal etc etc.

It was on a late sept test, that I once again ignored warning signs, it was the first test of the Barracuda esc. I was getting a stuttering when running, and put it down to the packs, Wrong! The esc was faulty, it blew up (literally) and was the best smoke demonstration I have seen, want black smoke in your smoke generator, let you esc blow all its fets off!. Here is where Overlander come in with great service. It was returned for inspection, fearing the worst, user error (although I know it wasn't anything I had done) I was ready to pay the nominal repair fee, as Castle escs can be fixed, not like the Chinese stuff!, but no need to worry, Overlander offered a full refund inc postage, as they where out of stock, how good is that :-)).

After some communication with Castle direct (moaning, I am good at that!) I got a good deal on the new model 120amp Hydra esc that was replacing the Barracuda, so all ends well on the esc front,. In an effort to protect it I have fitted a MAXI blade 50amp fuse , with a 100 amp blow rating, but can only do it to the battery side of the circuit, unless someone can advise accordingly, as a brushless motor is a 3 phase motor, 3 wires, you cant fit a fuse to the motor side of the esc?? You can see the difference between a standard blade fuse and a maxi one, got loads of amps to push through thisset up, even using 10 gauge wiring, don't want anything to overheat. The lipo packs cope with massive 5.5mm bullets, that takes some serious soldering to get a 5.5mm bullet on the other end!
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Bradley

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2009, 09:51:03 am »

Thanks, Paul.  Hope mine will, eventually, look and perform as well as yours. :-))

Derek.
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2009, 06:11:17 pm »

So we are almost up to present day now!

When the Barracuda esc failed, it was a VERY short run on 6 lipos cells. Whilst waiting for the exchange esc, I decided to invest in a pair of 2 cell 5000mah packs (ebay), to run in another boat, but I have since decisded after much forum reading that although the motor and esc are up to 6 cells, maybe

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Flying Sparks

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2009, 07:52:06 pm »

Hi Paul

I'm very much enjoying your trials and tribulations with you Huntsman, thanks for sharing your story it has been very interesting and informative, and I'm sure we can all learn a lot from your experiences.
I have a vested interest as I'm about to start restoring my own Huntsman that was built from the 34" Precedent kit that I was kindly given by a fellow club member. The boat is in pretty good shape but needs some work to bring it back up to scratch.
Your boat looks beautifully finished and you've paid great attention to detail. I love your gearbox that looks brilliant  :-)) My Huntsman probably will not have the same amount of detail but I would like it to have a good finish and most important good performance.

Phil.
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2009, 12:56:13 am »

thanks Phil just ask if you need anything, I am certainly no expert but will share any of my mistakes or triumphs with you!

Now, last post, dont know what happened there!.

Anyway, awaiting the exchange esc, I  spend a lot of time of other forums that are dedicated to fast electric, and the feeling was that with 6 cells, although the spec of the motor and esc are up to that many cells, I may be asking a bit too much of this heavy old girl. I also have a couple of rc helis, which although are infrequently used, are way over due new batteries, lipos, and only 6 weeks or so ago I was informed by a friend that a chinese seller on fleabay was having a sale, so inspite of all my previous ramblings about chinese ebay sellers, I got some, and also 2 x 2 cell  5000mah packs, so the Huntsman can run on 5 cells instead of 6. It also gives me options to get my Fireboat running on lipo instead of the tired nimhs I have bee using, so it was an early Christmas present.

Going back to buying overseas,. you can probably gather I have had a bad experience. One of the 3 cell lipos arrived with a dead cell >:-o, like I said you get what you pay for, Chinese customer service is a different world to that we enjoy here in UK, or any European and American seller come to think of it. They just dont get it!. I ended up sending the pack back, it cost 1/2 the price of the battery in postage, and 6 weeks!!!! of constant perstering, emails. , complaints on their own forum, to get things sorted, it was a very bad experience, so buyer be warned! ( it was Hobbyking), that was just my experience, so it is your own choice, but check out their own website forum!!! :} full of customer complaints, but that said.................they are very cheap, worth the risk? probably yes on cheaper items with low postage costs.

Gearbox ready to run with 5cells, Maxi fuse, and 2:1 ratio, Hydra esc, then 1.5: 1 ratio, you can just see the difference in the gear size, unfortunaltelt the pic with batteries isnt that clear
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2009, 01:21:43 am »

gearbox is fully adjustable, when fitting, the  small side bolts are left loose, and the 4 bolts mount to hull are loose, this aligns everything up, then all tightened up. The shaft support also has a floating bearing, so this finds its own centre before being tiightened, then the motor is set for belt tension, which is quite loose. Ther is also an option to change the face plate to go back to a brushed 700 motor, and also to go back to direct drive, should I want to.

I am very lucky to have had this made for me, and cannot thank the maker  enough :-))

I have attached as link to the motor, for info, as these motors appear from time to time on fleabay, but in RC helicopter sections, particularly Align T-Rex 500 helicopters

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/index.php?cPath=22_67&language=en

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_67&products_id=1383

And the esc
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jabba

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2009, 09:09:35 am »

hi there
thats a lovely huntsman ya got.
i use to own a huntsman but not as good as yours,i also took the brushless route
with some good results,
i used a hobbywing seaking esc 60amp and a 3300kv 540 size brushless motor,direct drive.
 i ran it on 2s lipo and 3s lipo,watercooling a must.
on 2s lipo it planed no prob,but on 3s lipo it was crazy.
if you use more than 3s lipo on the esc best to disable bec and buy a seperate ubec or run on 4aa battery's.
giant cod sell all the items i used.
  jabba.
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2009, 05:50:56 pm »

Hi Jabba, thanks for comments, yes I had to disconnect the bec wire, and use 5 x 1.2v rechargeable batteries for rx. If you think 3 cells was good, 6 cells was very scary, and 5 cells are a real laugh!! :}

Just now waiting for a break in then weather to get a good run, will post a video of a brief 5 cell run, with prop changes later all being well :-))
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2009, 06:55:55 pm »

Here is a short edited video taken 2 weeks ago.(posted previously elsewhere) Its not very good unfortunately, however you can see the difference in props, at each stop. Starting with a small blade 45mm "x", then standard blade 45mm "x", then 55mm "s", then 52.5mm "x" which on 2:1 ratio, 5 cells, gave the best performance. Somewhere in there is a 55mm run, but it was no better.

The temp on the car display was 1 degree, the water was freezing, and I have subsequently read that low temps like this can reduce brushless performance by 15%. The lipos where on their first run also, so I am expecting a better performance when weather warms up a bit, also you can hear that I dont give it full beans, and struggle getting a straight run, so dont know if there is any more top speed in this set up, it does however accelerate very well.

Dont think the set up is quite right yet, motor sounds a bit "boggy", so I would like to try the 1.5:1 ratio again,smaller prop, so the motor can spin up more freely,  and of course, 6 cells! :-))
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Bradley

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2009, 10:31:59 pm »

Enjoyed the video, Paul.  Sure looks good. :-)) :-))

Derek.    :police:
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2010, 08:08:38 pm »

how you getting on Derek with your build?

Weather is far too cold in the garage/shed, I am not allowed indoors as I am a very messy builder :}, so not really progressed with Huntsman. I have a couple of new vents ready for painting with Alclad Chrome paint, but too cold for painting!

Really looking forward to getting some testing done in warmer weather with GPS on board! :-))
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Bradley

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2010, 09:48:45 pm »

Hi Paul,

I have the same problem with the temperature in my workshop (shed) but I have got as far as all the framework glued into the hull and just needs a little sanding down in places before I fit the deck.  Will post some photos shortly showing progress.  :-)

Derek.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2010, 10:13:36 pm »



, I am not allowed indoors as I am a very messy builder :},


Yes when he leaves my place it tackes 3 days to tidy my work room  >>:-(     then you have to fix the grass   <*<

Peter
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cbr900

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2010, 11:01:54 am »

Too cold in the workshop, in mine today it was 49degrees celsuis.
Then I turned on the air conditioner and it was soon a comfortable
24 degrees............... :-)) :-))


Roy
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2010, 11:14:22 am »

Thats a bit cooler than mine , But I like mine hot very hot , People have tried to book my work room for a Holiday   :}

just ask any visitors,  %%

Oh and it is also sound proof so I can work at a night or Early morning

Peter
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2010, 01:29:45 pm »

bit more progress, its been too cold to do much, although I wish I had taken the Huntsman out today for a blast, I was at Hoylake (North Wirral) at 9.00am this morning before work, doing a bit of testing with a small jetboat. The morning was quite mild, and so still, not a ripple on the lake, very quiet, really good.

I have made another pair of air intakes. On the real boat, these are panel beaten by hand, and are a very prominent feature. I vac formed them in clear plastic, and painted from the inside with a paint called "alclad". It has produced a real nice chrome finish, the finish being "back to front", so from ther outside its the chrome finish, and as its on the inside of the c;ear plastic,. should not be tarnished by water. It is generally used by RC car boys when painting clear lexan shell

  http://www.alclad2.com/lacquer_colors.html

interesting website for those who want some specialised paint :-))
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2010, 07:13:52 pm »

couple of pics for the finished article!
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2010, 07:17:17 pm »

.
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2010, 10:22:16 pm »

This has been  one of the most informative and interesting rebuild/tech threads on Mayhem - Thanks for sharing and well done.  :-))
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knoby

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2010, 10:35:01 pm »

super model & a great thread. I have enjoyed it & learnt a lot too, many thanks for sharing
cheers Glenn
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Flying Sparks

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2010, 10:46:04 am »

Wow, absolutely stunning. You have paid great attention to detail and we can see from the videos it performs great as well.

Thank's for sharing.

Phil.
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2010, 12:41:50 am »

Finally got out with 6 lipo cells, so very nervously gave it a go, expecting the dreaded blue magic smoke to emit from anything electrical, but..... it survived! :} although I was a tad timid with the throttle.

The lake was too small really, and it had ice one end, but ideal to test on as it will not take long to drift in if a breakdown occurs  :embarrassed:!!

I "think" it went better than 5 lipo cells with a bigger prop (5 cells = 52.5mm, 6 cells =50mm). Motor was a little warm, but I noticed again that after a run, a brushless motor emitts heat from the front, so when the water cooling stops, the motor starts to get hot. We have  a plan to pump water through the front of the mount, and then through the motor water jacket after its been running  to aid cooling. You can see the first few circuits are timid, then the odd short blast of speed, then I nearly wipe it out on the bank (I am a rubbish driver!), luckily, to dispell all the "brushless wont go in reverse" myths, I was able to stab reverse and just miss the side. It seems to accelerate real quick for a very heavy boat, but I need to put the thinking cap on, I want slower acceleration and faster top speed, I am sure the esc has a different programme for this, and I can alter the gear ratio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtGo7_W2LYY

bit of video, any ideas welcome, oh, and finally the chrome vents, love em! :-))
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DickyD

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2010, 11:48:12 am »

Excellent, though you definitely need a bigger lake. :-))
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Flying Sparks

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2010, 09:14:14 pm »

Red, your boat looks frustrated on that lake  :-)), looks like it really wants to motor along. I don't know what transmiter you are using but does it have any throttle curves on it? If you have you could program your tranny for the throttle to open slowly at first and then with more of a rush at the top end.

Phil.
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red181

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Re: Complete Huntsman 28 Brushless build, with tears & Laughter!
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2010, 07:54:28 pm »

Hi Phil, no throttle curve, I think I have misled you! Its fully proportional throttle, what I meant was I would give up some of the acceleration to get more top end speed (although it is a bit restricted on that lake!) I was thinking, if it was a car, its a different gear to achieve slower acceleration and better top speed, not explaining that very well am I!! :embarrassed:

I am using the cheap 2.4 turborix tx and rx, no problems, for the money its bang on :-)) I am operating cabin and nav lights at the "xxxxx" of switches, and will be using a pump to drive cold lake water through the motor mount and cooling coil when its finished running.

I have the option to change the gear ratio, but have to keep a watchful eye on running temp, its ok now, but its also just over freeezing point on that last video, so running temp might be a bit misleading.

I think I can go a bit bigger on the prop, but is that better top speed or better acceleration??
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