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Author Topic: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect  (Read 6085 times)

Nordsee

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Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« on: January 11, 2010, 04:09:46 pm »

With all these cheap and not so cheap 2.4 Frequency radios about, and being bought, there has been a pleasant, for me, knock-on-effect. Our Group has 2 Regattas a year, in Cologne on the Race Course there. Usually attracts between 35 and 45 boats, with the attendant Frequency clashes and having to split the events into two or sometimes three Groups. But not this year. There are so many 2.4s in use that the 40 Band is virtually clear and we a can sail without any interference or Crystal clashes. Also there are some really good bargains to be had in the 40 Band Radio Market. For example, Conrad are offering a 40 FM Computer Set, 6 channels, Mixing, Servo throw control, Rates, Mode change,Model Memory, the lot. Last years price, 179 Euros, now 69. I need another set and  this seems a better choice than a Budget priced 2.4. Maybe very wrong, but needs to be thought about........
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Jimmy James

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 08:37:23 pm »

I think I'll stick with my old Fleet 40 meg sets. They seldom seem to give me trouble and when they do its usually my fault for not charging the battery's or something daft like that..  These new fangled 2.4's seems to be nothing but trouble (I know I'm really putting my head on a block)They don't seem to have anywhere near the range of the old 40meg sets...They also seem to find dead areas all over the place that never troubled the old sets--- Our rescue boat was never been so much on call as it is now with the people on 2.4 calling out that they have lost control and their boats are heading for the far side of the lake... But don't get me wrong I think they are great... everybody should use them (More channels for me) 
Freebooter  :-)) :-)) ;D ;D :embarrassed:
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andygh

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 08:46:45 pm »

Bring back valve sets  {-)
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 03:21:11 am »

I think (but don't know) that some of the cheaper 2.4 sets do not have the range of some of the more expensive 2.4, or FM/AM sets.

And so perhaps the problem is not 2.4ghz, but the power of the Tx.
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787Eng

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 08:51:53 am »

JJ

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement on 2.4 radios lets have more data on makes of radios and quantity's etc.
If its the £25.00 radios what do you expect, its like the old saying "You get what you pay for"

Well happy Spektrum user with NO range issues....EVER! :-)

Mark
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 08:55:51 am »

Bring back valve sets  {-)

having run valve sets(my very first set was a Mc Gregor kit) I don't want any more 90v shocks on a wet day.

Peter
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andygh

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 11:50:13 am »

Quote
"You get what you pay for"


A cliche that's very often proved wrong  O0

For the record, I've never had a problem with any of my "cheap" 2.4gig sets, loss of control or otherwise  :-))
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snowwolflair

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 11:58:19 am »

As an engineer, and having taken a few of the cheap 2.4GHz sets appart I would not use them for anything fast (dangerous).  Scale boats, garden railway etc are fine, and it is only sensible and good radio practice regardless of frequency to do a range check before using them.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 12:10:15 pm »

As an engineer, and having taken a few of the cheap 2.4GHz sets appart I would not use them for anything fast (dangerous).  Scale boats, garden railway etc are fine, and it is only sensible and good radio practice regardless of frequency to do a range check before using them.

Why not, What have you seen as I have looked and played with a few and can not see a problem with the electronics side,  the the cases are a bit flimsy and pots are naff but the rest is ok.


peter
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2010, 12:14:28 pm »

having been into RC for many years, granted not as long as some member on here, (early 80s) I have always used futaba radio gear and never had any issues.

My Tamiya martini porsche 935 (yes the rare one) from the early 80s is still running the origonal futaba 27mhz gear, servos etc and is still going strong. coming up to 30 years old.  All my planes and helis have run on futaba skysport trannies and have never had radio issues

Ive not as yet tried any 2.4GHZ but might look into it soon
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787Eng

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2010, 01:25:24 pm »



A cliche that's very often proved wrong  O0


Oh yes well name one example
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 01:44:08 pm »

If some people have experienced problems with cheap sets, this is anecdotal evidence that there IS a risk with buying cheaper sets.

One of the cheap sets discussed on here, is described by the vendor as having a range of 150m. There were some who responded on antother thread that the trader was wrong. Looking at the anecdotal evidence, range may be more reliable with more expensive sets.

If you bought a cheap set and it full meets your needs, good. For me a range of 150m is a big risk. For others it may be more than adequate.

Yes there are geniune exceptions (including sales), but as a general rule you do tend to get what you pay for.
Perhaps not all 2.4gig sets are equal.
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andygh

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 03:02:29 pm »

Quote
As an engineer, and having taken a few of the cheap 2.4GHz sets apart I would not use them for anything fast (dangerous).  Scale boats, garden railway etc are fine, and it is only sensible and good radio practice regardless of frequency to do a range check before using them.

As a different engineer and having taken apart and used 3 different 2.4gig sets I donít have a problem with them at all. Opinions eh?  %%


Quote
Oh yes well name one example

Just one?
Have you ever measured your broadband speed? is it the same as what youíre paying for? Mine isnít
Another?
Have you ever bought a package holiday and someone else on exactly the same holiday paid more/less than you did? I have
ok2
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snowwolflair

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 03:11:06 pm »

Why not, What have you seen as I have looked and played with a few and can not see a problem with the electronics side,  the the cases are a bit flimsy and pots are naff but the rest is ok.


peter

The problem is failure.  If it fails what happens?  The build quality of the cases are bad and the assembly of the electronics is just as bad.  Not just dry solder joints, the quality of the PCB's is poor and liable to crack with fatigue and use.  Also at the price they have to be using cheap components - which invariably means inherant risk.  the reason I have been inside these units is to re-do the soldering!

Ask yourself this - would I trust my life to this unit - if not why risk someone elses life if you model hits them out of control.
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Peterm

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 03:40:53 pm »

I take the point about endangering peoples lives, but surely we are talking about use in model boats.   Pete M
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andygh

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2010, 05:12:07 pm »

Yup, I've never hit anyone with a model boat  :-) I've never found dry joints or flimsy cases either.
Unsurprisingly, components are very cheap in China at the moment, I wonder how much mark-up there is on the "big" manufacturers gear compared to the cheaper stuff?
Fill yer boots before prices start to rise I say  :-))
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2010, 05:49:30 pm »

Fill yer boots before prices start to rise I say  :-))
Or fill yer BOATS.... :-))
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2010, 06:52:32 pm »

The problem is failure.  If it fails what happens?  The build quality of the cases are bad and the assembly of the electronics is just as bad.  Not just dry solder joints, the quality of the PCB's is poor and liable to crack with fatigue and use.  Also at the price they have to be using cheap components - which invariably means inherant risk.  the reason I have been inside these units is to re-do the soldering!

Ask yourself this - would I trust my life to this unit - if not why risk someone elses life if you model hits them out of control.

Funny not heard of the electronics going down on any yet and i think we would have on mayhem by now heard of a few Spectrum's going down though, as for build quality it's probably far better than the best  radio sets where 15 years ago, have you looked in side some of the older sets, and how good the board where ? new budget ones are far better and as for components  the manufacturing processes now are far better even for budget parts than they where,
if you are concerned about the controle of fast boats how about cheap servos and home made speed controllers, should they not be used in fast boats,

funtimefrankie
the feel and fit of some of the budget cases are not brilliant and some of the sticks do not have the solid feel of older sets , a mate and I where comparing a few older sets (20 years old) to a new budget and he could not believe how much better the sticks felt, i have just converted one to 2.4ghz and it feels so much better than newer sets.
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red181

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2010, 10:06:57 pm »

yes you get what you pay for, I use a cheap 2.4 set, at least I dont have to worry about people turning on tx's with a total disregard to others, I am sure some reading this are now feeling a bit uncomfortable, or then there is the selfish frequency hogging that certain club members do, how many times have you heard "thats MY channel"!!!!!, and how many times have you visited a lake and there is no peg board out, even though there are a number of members from the same club in attendance?

Spektrum etc are regarded as class leading, the best, but way out of my budget, oh........ and here is the link to last years recall to spektrum transmitters, you get what you pay for eh! :} :} :}

 http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleId=1885
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andygh

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2010, 11:18:17 pm »

Succinctly put :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 12:55:10 am »

Citing a recall on a new product with a new technology may not exactly be fair.

Perhaps Spectrum did a lot to develop the technology for RC. They therefore carried moer of the risk of early failure.

Having said that, when they did find a problem they did a recall. I doubt any of the cheap manufactureres would be able to, or willing to, do a recall and repair or replace.
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787Eng

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2010, 05:28:36 am »

Citing a recall on a new product with a new technology may not exactly be fair.

Perhaps Spectrum did a lot to develop the technology for RC. They therefore carried moer of the risk of early failure.

Having said that, when they did find a problem they did a recall. I doubt any of the cheap manufactureres would be able to, or willing to, do a recall and repair or replace.

Very well put....

Mark
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 08:08:28 am »

Citing a recall on a new product with a new technology may not exactly be fair.

Perhaps Spectrum did a lot to develop the technology for RC. They therefore carried moer of the risk of early failure.

Having said that, when they did find a problem they did a recall. I doubt any of the cheap manufactureres would be able to, or willing to, do a recall and repair or replace.

the number of re calls is very high on spectum rc equipment futaba where 12 months behind and had one re call, there have been Chinese re calls there has just been one re speed controllers,

the thing as Paul says, they are far more safe than a 27/40 set as you don't get shot down by some prat just turning on or saying but I am only testing or as we have come across lately that made me change all my equipment but I am on my club freqency when they just turn up and you are the only other person there at 7.30 pm of an evening, it does not matter with 27/40 how good your gear is an old Acoms or a out of tune Fleet set will bin you but a cheap 2.4 will leave you un effected,

 so what is safer.ill go with cheap 2.4 every time

peter
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 01:36:43 pm »

Is the number of recalls still high on Spectrum?

I would expect that those that were later to market, like Futaba, to have less problems.

If the 2.4 you have works for you, fantastic. A good result.
Given a choice, I would go for 2.4 ghz if there were a lot of other users where I sailed.


However, I am wary of cheap Chinese from my experience with a cheap electronics, a 27meg set that never worked and no after sales service.
I was going to buy, but it was the quoted range that stopped me.
Any set I buy would have to be one of those with a higher quoted range. My boats are getting bigger and I am sailing on larger waters.
I know from experience that when the RX batteries get low on mine, things can get unpredictable at about 100m, and this is well withing the range of the TX. This is another concern of lower quoted ranges.

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Jimmy James

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Re: Cheap 2.4 radio - Knock-on effect
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2010, 04:50:05 pm »

Mark
I'm using my old Fleet gear on large scale sailing vessels and am often 5 or 600 yards from the model as our lake is quite large (800 x 1900 yards) and have never lost control due to Range even at over 1000 yards ---mind you I run my RX aerial up the masts- but I agree it seems to be the 2.4 TX/Rx at the mid and lower end of the cash scale that seem to to have the most faults on range but not dead areas as even the more expensive ones seem to suddenly lose control in certain parts of the lake that don't bother the 27 and 40 Meg sets (Don't ask me the makes as I don't use them so don't know) {:-{ {:-{ :-))
Jimmy
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