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Author Topic: New project - a restoration/conversion  (Read 38720 times)

bbjs

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2011, 01:04:52 pm »

kiwimoddler
If it is picket boat plans that you are looking for, I have a copy of "Fifty foot steam picket boat" scale 1 inch to 1 foot by N.A.Ough (2 sheets) which I could get copied and send to you.
Tim

Tim - Like Ian I'm interested in a set if you makes some copies !

Also saw that Models by Design sell the hull including the MacGregor/Norman Ough plans:
http://www.modelsbydesign.co.uk/model_boats.aspx

Cheers, Bjorn
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gemini

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2011, 01:14:12 pm »

Hi Greg & Peter

Greg -  thank you for tip on use of cotton shirt as scale calico, I have been looking at Solartex a iron on fabric covering used by aero modellers - looks pretty good and does offer a scale appearance of a fabric material of calico once a coat of matt black paint is applied. Still I will certainly try out your tip - just need to search for an old shirt from the wardrobe !

Peter - Yes your picture is of Iron Duke in her early days, sadly as I reported earlier she has not worn too well while on display at Cheddar Models. The four figures have survived allthough a bit dirty and due to age the paint used has turned sticky ? Stupid of me but I did not take any pictures of Iron Duke prior to the restoration was started. However , I have attached a few images that may be of interest.

Information
One problem is distortion I have come across with the Iron Duke hull which originally came from a manufacture who purchase the plug from a "Cottage industry" which closed down. Close inspection will reveal that one side of the hull is longer than the other - not by much but enough to make the rear cabin out of square. Very few notice, its just I know - and so do all of you now !!!

Kingston Mouldings kingston,rw@ntlworld.co supplied me with a copy of the plans normally supplied with the Picket Boat Hull sold by them, check the websitewww.KingstonMouldings.co.uk Very useful contact to have, with a very informative website.

Help Required
Does anyone have any comment or views with regard to a waterline mark on the hull , I note that in all the illustrations published in Stapleton's "Steam Picket Boats" no hull is shown with a waterline.

Roger

N.B.
John @ Cheddar Models was in a good mood and I purchased Iron Duke at a good price !, I guess I was one of the people he liked. John did not suffer fools gladly.















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Underpressure

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2011, 02:13:32 pm »

John did not suffer fools gladly.

John would suffer anybody gladly.....if they had their wallets out  :}
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TAG

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2011, 04:53:36 pm »

Kiwimodeller and bbjs.
You are welcome to a copy of the plans, they have all the lines and sections to enable you to scratch build the hull. As a scratch builder I enjoy hull building in wood, no grp please! I wanted to build my picket boat as the real ones were ie double diagonal but it would not work on the inside layer. Nothing to glue most of the diagonals to so did longitudinal planks on the first layer then diagonal planks on the second layer. All planks were 1000x20x2mm limewood. Things turned out well, no planks have sprung since it was finished about six years ago.

If both of you would PM me we can sort things out.

Tim
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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2011, 05:44:23 pm »

gemini
I have just read your post about picket boats, I completed one about six years ago and used Stapleton's book to sort out all my unanswered questions. I am assuming you have a copy of his book Steam Picket Boats as you make reference to it. The aft cabin was covered in corticene see page 21 the description of which is in appendix iv page 98. It appears to be a sort of linoleum used in days gone by as a bathroom floor covering which I remember as a small boy. I found the nearest to this in scale terms in a material form dressmaking shop.
If you PM me with an address I will send you a sample if I can find the left overs. I note that you are going to reglaze the after cabin, for heavens sake do it in glass, at this scale 1mm glass is easy to cut and fit. Use thin wooden strips to hold it it place.
As far as waterlines were concerned I went along with Stapleton's majority pictures and painted mine all grey (light grey for foreign climes) after all they were only ships boats.
I gave mine a planked deck using wallnut strips sandwiched between thin black card as caulking a very messy and dusty process but well worth the effort. Not really prototypical but I like planked decks! It is powered by a much superior engine to Cheddar machines, a Nichols Avon twin cylinder unit with a Cheddar boiler controlled by one of my own designed water level controls giving a minimum sailing time of one hour.
Hope this helps
Tim
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2011, 06:03:26 pm »

gemini
The aft cabin was covered in corticene see page 21 the description of which is in appendix iv page 98. It appears to be a sort of linoleum used in days gone by as a bathroom floor covering which I remember as a small boy.
Tim

Well spotted Tim!!
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kiwimodeller

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2011, 09:27:01 am »

P M sent thanks Tim.
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kiwimodeller

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2011, 09:43:10 am »

Managed to find a copy of the stapleton book on AbeBooks last night for 20Pounds plus 4Pounds postage which seems to be a bit of a bargain compared with what other booksellers want for copies. Look forward to that turning up in the mail. Cheers, Ian.
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2011, 04:49:03 pm »

Bargain! I couldn't find one for less than £30 inc P&P. A very good read.
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #109 on: November 22, 2011, 11:21:41 pm »

After a long period of being laid up due to other commitments I've had some time to get some more work done on the picket boat.

I decidied a long time ago that a plywood stem was really not what I wanted to be seen on the boat, and that really an oak one to match the transom was the ideal. I took the step of planing the stem back to the rabbet, fitting a new stem of some nice seasoned oak and carving and planing it to shape.

After I had epoxied it in and made sure the steam and apron were well and truly bonded I set to and started attacking (true description) the massive lump of unshaped, unfinished and downright unsightly GRP splodge around the apron. It had, I amagine, a two fold purpose in the builder's eyes; strengthening the plank ends and a poor attempt at making sure no water ingressed from the plank ends- it's lucky that water hadn't got behind and rotted the planks. Perhaps the builder should have had more confidence in his planking to start with as there are no signs of ingress.

In the process of removing said horrible lump a couple of the planks loosened below the waterline, so I have stripped the worst back to the first layer of planking, and the second just cut ready for butt jointing a new section in.

I have decided I would like a couple of intermidiate frames at the bow as there are so many turns in the planking and I wanted something to secure the replacement planking sections onto. I first made templates in paper and ply before making the finished article in Iroko. It is fastened on every other plank with brass pins and epxoied into place. There is a mirror piece to be made for the port side too.

Once they are in, the breasthook that I made, but haven't photo'd will be installed.

It's nice to get back to this model, so hopefully there will be many more updates in the coming weeks!

Greg
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broger

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2012, 10:12:53 pm »

Hi Greg
Just had to say what a great job your making of this restoration.
Also to show that I did read it all I have now 500ml of Aliphatic resin wood glue.
Not going to clog the thread so thanks for the info and thanks to gentleman who saw it.

Happy new year to all, Alan
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logoman

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2012, 11:35:14 pm »


  Depends on calibre, were "Hilti" cartridges available when the model was made? Given the standard of construction of the model, could it have been made by one of the Naval Colleges by junior ratings to enter one of the M/E exhibitions? If not self made, WEB were about the only "Commercial" manufacturers.

  Regards  Ian

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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2012, 04:46:56 pm »

Thanks Logoman, very interesting.

Glad it's helped you Alan.

Greg
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dave goldsmith

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2012, 08:59:31 pm »

hi all, new to the forum so only just picked this thread up, very interesting, as i found this in the loft last week. It had been up there for about 20 years and was given to me by an old boy whose loft i was working in.






I originally didnt want to model a pinnace and was trying to think what esle i could make from it, but after seeing this thread, it has spurred me on to build it as designed.
I would have no problem with the woodwork as i make 1/12 scale dollshouses and furniture!

The problem i have is that i have no plans at all. Obviously i dont need hull drawings, but could anyone help with a set of above deck drawings.
The hull was the only thing i was given so everything will be scratch built.
The hull was not particlarly well made and a lot of filler will be required to get it straight. Can anyone tell me what the finish was on the real thing?
If the planks showed i will replank over the top if need be.



Lastly I have downlownded all the photos i can find from google images, does anyone have any other source of photos?
Thanks Dave (Southend)
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #114 on: March 27, 2012, 11:34:47 pm »

Hi Dave,

That looks like exactly the same hull design as mine- in construction deatils too.

The answer to getting this model right is to get yourself a copy of 'Steam Picket Boats of the Royal Navy' by Commander N B J Stapleton. Amazon often has copies for sale.

The book is a treasuretrove of detailed photos, written accounts and picket boats in their various guises.

Greg
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dave goldsmith

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #115 on: March 29, 2012, 12:10:44 am »

Are there any plans about for the super structure, scale no problem I will redraw them. Do the planks show or could the hull be smooth.?
Thanks Dave
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #116 on: March 29, 2012, 07:32:17 am »

Basically none of the superstructures are the same, although I do beleive that there is a 1:24 scale model that is available- you could find plans for that and scale them up?

The planking doesn't show on any of the boats as they are double diagonal planked full size.

Greg
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kiwimodeller

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #117 on: March 29, 2012, 10:31:02 am »

Dave, I have two different sets of plans and the book by Stapleton and as Greg says there are many small variations in the superstructure, presumably depending on what year they were built and perhaps also what they were going to be used for. The Admirals boat also has a different hull with a counter stern and it has a swept up roof at the rear of the cabin. It was featured along with plans in the Model Shipwright number 84. Yours is obviously a straight stern Picket Boat version. I was sent a copy of the Norman Ough plans for the straight stern Picket Boat by a member of this forum along with some very useful photos of a restored boat at a maritime museum. I cannot at the moment find the note that told me which museum but if the old memory cells serve me correctly Southampton rimngs a bell. I a purchased a 50" fiberglass hull from Models by Design and have recently begun building. I will power that with a twin cylider steam engine built from a New Zealand made kit. If you do not have any luck with plans in the UK send me a PM or email (address on my profile) and I will arrange to copy what I have but it may take a few weeks as I have to go to the city to find a copy centre with a large enough machine, nobody in our little town can do it. Cheers, Ian.
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dave goldsmith

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #118 on: March 29, 2012, 11:02:56 am »

Thanks kiwi. I am in the process of obtaining the book, thanks for the offer of the plan but don't go to that much trouble. Do you have a scanner, if so just scan it in parts and email it as log as there's a scale on one of the bits I can put it all together in photoshop and work up new drawings. I believe the original boat is 199 and is in Portsmouth naval museum. Thanks again for your reply
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dave goldsmith

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #119 on: March 29, 2012, 12:50:55 pm »

Thanks cir clip, just the job. I now have a drawing, I think the the model shipwright version
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dave goldsmith

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2012, 01:04:44 pm »

Just received a copy of the Stapleton book, only 8.99 off flea bay a bargain I think. Looks like a good reference book. No excuses got to get going now.
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2012, 11:09:12 pm »

Bargain, well done!! Look forward to seeing your progress.
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #122 on: April 27, 2012, 08:45:49 pm »

Finally, feels like I'm getting somewhere- all the replanking has been done, one coat of SP106 epoxy resin, two coats of Aluminium primer, one coat of undercoat, and first coat of RN Blue- mixed up from Dulux Oxford Blue and Black gloss until it was right(?). I'm fairly happy with the colour comparing it to Pinnace 199 videos on Youtube.

Greg
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Kerrsy

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #123 on: April 28, 2012, 11:12:45 am »

Hi Greg
What a great finish, fabulous job.
Could you tell me about the aluminum primer?
I'm not up on painting and I will be painting Alaska soon.
I'd love to have a finish like yours.
Did you spray it with an air brush?

Haven't been on for a while since the crash, I've had to load Firefox because Explorer will not connect to the forum.
Not sure what I'm called now as my post name comes up with loger and not kerrsy.
any way found it again, hope all is well

Alan
 
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #124 on: April 28, 2012, 05:22:48 pm »

Hi Alan,

Thanks, it's only first coat, it'll get another decent coat, then a good sanding- probably back to undercoat in a couple of places, then a final 2 coats.

The aluminium primer is one of the most useful things ever invented in my opinion- it sticks to everything (don't go anywhere near your wife/best shoes/china/bedding/car etc. if you value your life!) It is a suspension of extremely fine pulverised aluminium powder in an oil-based liquid. You must stir it for a good 5 minutes before using to make sure as much aluminuim is free as possible. A 2.5L tin goes quite a long way- it would do 10 of your models no problem. It seals all porous materials, such as wood, perfectly as the aluminium penetrates and the base liquid protects- but it works equally well on keyed non-porous surfaces too- such as epoxy resin, GRP and metal- I've never tried it on hard plastics such as ABS. It's used a lot in boatbuilding to seal end-grain on butt joints and the like in conjunction with copious Cuprinol...!

I've just used a brush on mine- as long as you are using a decent (bristles stay in) soft bristle brush- Wickes and B&Q's own brushes are generally very good, and good value for money. However, the finish is determined more by preperation and paint qaulity- preperation for mine was fill using Ronseal 2-pack wood filler, sand and fair the hull, fill any little places I missed the first time, sand again. I then mixed up some SP106 (now replaced with SP360 in the shops) epoxy resin, brushed it on thickly with a fast hardener. I let this dry for a few days then sanded this. When I had a decent smooth finish I put the two coats of aluminium primer on, when they were dry I lightly keyed the hull and put the undercoat on- just a decent Crown exterior undercoat. The undercoat was sanded and then the first coat of paint was administered- and now it's as in the pictures.

All being well it will get a wet and dry tonight, and a second coat put on.

You'll have to post some pics of your model on here, we haven't seen any for a while...

Greg

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