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Author Topic: New project - a restoration/conversion  (Read 38713 times)

derekwarner

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2010, 01:05:49 am »

Hi gondolier88 ....may I ask..... :} what type of glue/s are you using with the cabin construction? & also the hull [stern] reconstruction.....

I see an unmentionable PURPLE  tube of some crud?  >>:-(

I also see a clear little bottle of that SUPER GLUE  <*< ...I would have colored the little bottle clear but then no one could read it   %% ......Derek

OPPs....I also see a white & GREEN bottle further back which may be PVA?
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Derek Warner

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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2010, 10:20:41 pm »

Hi Derek,

I use whatever is suitable for the application;

The purple glue- general purpose cyano based gel glue- slower setting than superglue- used for none-stressed joints that may need adjusting- trim peices, mouldings etc that will be varnished.

Super glueis used for non stressed joints that won't need adjusting- door handles, frames etc.

The green labelled bottle is Aliphatic Resin, I love it, strong, you can use it like PVA but is waterproof when set, it sets clear(ish) and doesn't stain the wood when varnished.

Sometimes I use a combination- two dots at the end and one in the middle of a long run and aliphatic resin between- this allows it to permanently stick together imediately, but has the strength of the aliphatic resin when it's set- allowing me to construct with the piece straight away, but has the strength of the white glue integrated into the construction.

I also use epoxy for all woodwork outside the hull or under the waterline- the transom for example is aliphatic resin on the two layers of pine planking and epoxy on the outer oak layer- this is the strongest, cheapest most waterproof way of doing it.

Greg
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red_noir

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2010, 11:36:14 pm »

Looks awesome ! I like the detail you spent on the door ! Great Job !! :-))


Red
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barryfoote

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2010, 08:54:53 am »

A magnificent thread. this is what "Mayhem" is all about...  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2010, 11:42:54 am »

Ok guys, not much to update as I've been extremely busy these past few days- however I have ordered the materials from Macc Models for the watertube boiler, the engine and boiler baseplate and materials to fininsh the engine (Stuart Turner D10). I have yet to finalise the exact boiler design- but it will be 2" dia' top drum with two 7/8" bottom drums, 6.5" long, 5.5" wide and 6" tall with 5/32" watertubes and 3/8 downcomers at the end of each drum.

I am at the moment at a crossroads- I would very much like to solid fuel fire it- it's full size counterpart was, and the grate would easlily be big enough, however it's prototype was also later converted to oil firing and I have the room and a desire to try out a proper scale parrafin (kerosene) firing system.

Suggestions are most welcome...!?

Greg
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Circlip

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2010, 12:06:22 pm »

Well, going for a "Yarrow" is showing signs of your masochismic tendancies, but a proper "Scale" Parraffin burner will be interesting Greg.

  Regards  Ian.
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ooyah/2

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2010, 09:53:21 pm »

Hi Greg,
I have just come across your thread for info on Yarrow type boiler, you may have built one by now. Boiler casing is light gauge Galvanized sheet lined with ceramic wool and held together with small self tappers.
I made this one to K.N.Harris design with a ceramic burner made from a gas fire eliment and it's a very fast steamer and as you know it requires a constant water feed.
Top tube is 2.5" dia mud- drums 1.125" dia with 24 5/16" dia down tubes each side. hydraulic tested to 200psi , site glass is taken from a boss  top and bottom of top tube, mud drums fitted "with blow down valves.
I wouldn't recommend 5/32" down tubes as the small bores could get furred up and the 3/8" feeders are not necessary, 1/4" o/d is the smallest that I would use.
Don't see any problem if you wished to coal fire it, hope this will be of help.
Geo.










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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2010, 11:05:56 pm »

Hi Geo,

Thanks for posting your pics, and your suggestions.

I already decided to use 1/4" tubes instead, not from a scaling up point of veiw (she will be steaming on some of the cleanest, softest water in Britain, I do think they should offer better circulation though. However I will be sticking to the 3/8 downcomers- I realise they offer very little in the way of an advantage at this scale, but they are contemporary to the design of the boat and is one of 'those details' that will add to the general air of real scale modelling that the model has already had built into it.

I am very impressed with your boiler- it's nice to see real tube spacing in a model three-drum, so many people that make them space them far too widely.

I like your idea of using galvanised steel- I would imagine the prototype would have had that as the casing material too, although I will be making it curved to look as close as pos' to the prototype.

What do you power with your boiler?

Greg
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kno3

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2010, 10:45:26 am »

...
I made this one to K.N.Harris design with a ceramic burner made from a gas fire eliment and it's a very fast steamer and as you know it requires a constant water feed.
Top tube is 2.5" dia mud- drums 1.125" dia with 24 5/16" dia down tubes each side. hydraulic tested to 200psi , site glass is taken from a boss  top and bottom of top tube, mud drums fitted "with blow down valves.
...

Hi, why did you choose not to use downcomers for your Yarrow boiler?
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ooyah/2

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #84 on: August 07, 2010, 09:26:53 pm »

Hi Greg,
I don't own this boiler any more as I sold it to a chap in San Francisco, I used it as a test boiler with a view to testing my Flash Steam engines but found that
150 psi wouldn't even start the engine so it was sold to fund other projects.
If you haven't started to build your boiler may I suggest that you make a jig from a piece of flat steel bar, mark out and drill the holes exactly as you want them in the boiler.
Slide this over the tubes as you locate them in the holes and then slide the jig to the opposite end of the tubes and then solder the tubes into the boiler into the boiler/ mud drums.
When soldered slide the jig off and this leaves the tubes ready to be slipped into the boiler/mud drums which have been drilled to suit..

The picture of the jig was for a previous boiler that I made with 50-- 5/16" dia down tubes per side, this was for an engine scratch built from stock but using a Stuart
5 A casting only. This was to be installed in a 4-man Canadian canoe but as I didn't have the storage space this plant was sold to a chap in Austria.

In reflection I should have made the boiler casing wider at the top to use up more of the heat produced by the burner but it was still a very fast steamer and as long as it was fed by water it steamed the big engine very well.
As both boilers were to K.N.Harris's design no large down tubes were called for so none were fitted and I don't think that they were needed ( not in model size anyway )  I think I have run ouyt of space ,if you require any more pics let me know.
George.






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ooyah/2

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #85 on: August 07, 2010, 09:34:59 pm »

Hi, why did you choose not to use downcomers for your Yarrow boiler?

Hi Kno3,
As explained to Greg The boiler design didn't call for downcomers so they were not fitted and as this was the second Yarrow type that I have built
for model size they are not required providing that you use a min 1/4" dia field tubes, in my opinion anything smaller will have poor water circulation.
George.
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #86 on: August 08, 2010, 06:02:18 pm »

What a lovely little engine, did you ever put it into a boat?

A cracking idea about the jig- I was wondering how best to get the holes exactly aligned, my best so far had been masking tape on the copper with the holes accurately drawn onto it.

Greg
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ooyah/2

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #87 on: August 08, 2010, 09:34:13 pm »

Greg,
The engine and boiler was sold to a chap in Austria and I believe it is steaming up and down a lake outside Vienna.

Back to your Yarrow boiler.

Mark off a center line in your mud drums and mark of the holes as per sketch. 
I use a set of draughtsmans small dividers which mark the copper very clearly and center dab all the holes, same for the top drum with the line set out to match the angle of the down tubes.
I didn't flatten the mud drums as K.N.H. I drilled them out on the Mill/drill and after drilling ran a 5/16" dia drill fixed in the hand drill and opened them out so that the tubes went in straight, do the same with the top drum.
Set up the tubes in the top drum but keep them lying horizontal and supported as you braze them other wise the weight of the tubes if held vertical will distort the top drum, do the same with the other side  not forgetting to use the steel jig to hold the tubes in position in the holes.
When cool slide the jig to the bottom for the mud drums as you pull it off it will bring the tubes into approx line and then you can fiddle them into the holes and braze up. EASY PEASY.
I am sending you a sketch of hole markings but if it doesn't come out let me know and I will P.M. you the sketch, any further help please ask.
I was down your way  21-07-10 and visited Conniston and D.Campbells grave, I stood at the lake side in peeing rain and in the silence I could imagine the roar of the Bluebirds Engine.
As an aside from steam I have just built a 1/12 scale model of K7 with brushless motor and high power battery and it's going at 27 mph which is just over 300mph to scale.
We came down from Conniston to Torver and then down the A5084 to Penny Bridge and passed a little spot where the road touches the lake side with a couple of parking spots, my ambition is to one day bring K7 and sail it on Conniston at this spot.
I have listed K7 on ANY OTHER BUILDS on a thread by BISCUIT, if you would like a very grainy movie let me know and I will post it via P.M.
George.
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2010, 10:42:00 pm »

Thanks for that, that's definitely the way I will do it.

I think I know where you mean- there's a few spots down the west side like that, if it's the place where there was a bit of a gravel beach, that was the bay where K7's refuelling dory was anchored.

I'd love to see a grainy video!

Greg
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ooyah/2

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #89 on: August 09, 2010, 12:44:51 pm »

Greg,
Having trouble sending P.M. could you please mail me your mail address.
George.
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gemini

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2011, 07:05:36 pm »

Outstanding Peter, you always have the photos. Yes, that may well have been the one.

Any shots of the plant  {-)

Ahhh, I can see you understand one of the pleasures of a steam powered working boat.

As to the Monahan. I would have to say it is the natural choice.

Neil

You may be interested to know that I purchased the Picket Boat " Iron Duke " from John Woodruff of Cheddar Models back in the summer of 2005.
It was in very poor condition having spent a long time on display in CM's showroom. It was complete with the Cheddar P4 steam engine with horizontal Proteus "type" boiler and an early ABC - automatic boiler control system for gas and water. To the best of my knowledge I am not aware of a Gemini or Proteus engine being installed.
Due to other commitments I have had to delay restoration until last year, a start was made on stripping down the boat, removing the steam plant and ABC unit. I intend to install a Proteus steam plant with a later version of the ABC system, the P4 will be fitted into a Mountfield "Cruiser" tug yet to be built ?.
The hull has been sprayed ready for top coats later in the year when the warmer weather comes??. The rear cabin was covered in wood effect "Contact"  a sticky back plastic material, this has been removed - not a nice job. I also removed the plastic windows due to glue marks and scratches. I have planked the outside of the cabin with Mahogany strip and removed the material which covered the roof, this will be recovered again ( I'm researching a suitable material ). The deck is to be re-planked in the spring - lots of sanding in the garden !.
New pipework will be required when installing the Proteus along with radio control servos and RX plus batteries.
I do have some poor pictures of the P4 and boiler still in the hull before they were removed , also a copy of the photo used on the cover of a Cheddar Models booklet.
I hope the above is of interest, I will keep you updated with restoration of "Iron Duke" with pics later in the year. Once the work is completed I hope to take "Iron Duke" back to Cheddar and sail on the lake now operated by Cheddar Steam Club

Roger

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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2011, 07:29:22 pm »

Hi Roger,

That sounds like a lovely project, have you any pictures of the boat?

The originals had Calico cabin tops, if you wanted to scale this you can cut a fine fabric such as a shirt or similar and glue it to the cabin using paint as the adhesive as in full size. i'm going to varnish mine as MBM member Lochen made such a good job of planking it, it'd be criminal to cover it up, even if this isn't to scale.

Greg
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #92 on: February 19, 2011, 12:45:37 am »

You may be interested to know that I purchased the Picket Boat " Iron Duke " from John Woodruff of Cheddar Models back in the summer of 2005.
It was in very poor condition having spent a long time on display in CM's showroom. It was complete with the Cheddar P4 steam engine with horizontal Proteus "type" boiler and an early ABC - automatic boiler control system for gas and water. To the best of my knowledge I am not aware of a Gemini or Proteus engine being installed.
Due to other commitments I have had to delay restoration until last year, a start was made on stripping down the boat, removing the steam plant and ABC unit. I intend to install a Proteus steam plant with a later version of the ABC system, the P4 will be fitted into a Mountfield "Cruiser" tug yet to be built ?.
The hull has been sprayed ready for top coats later in the year when the warmer weather comes??. The rear cabin was covered in wood effect "Contact"  a sticky back plastic material, this has been removed - not a nice job. I also removed the plastic windows due to glue marks and scratches. I have planked the outside of the cabin with Mahogany strip and removed the material which covered the roof, this will be recovered again ( I'm researching a suitable material ). The deck is to be re-planked in the spring - lots of sanding in the garden !.
New pipework will be required when installing the Proteus along with radio control servos and RX plus batteries.
I do have some poor pictures of the P4 and boiler still in the hull before they were removed , also a copy of the photo used on the cover of a Cheddar Models booklet.
I hope the above is of interest, I will keep you updated with restoration of "Iron Duke" with pics later in the year. Once the work is completed I hope to take "Iron Duke" back to Cheddar and sail on the lake now operated by Cheddar Steam Club

Roger



did it look like this one ?

Peter
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Underpressure

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #93 on: February 19, 2011, 08:16:48 am »

I remember that the Pinnace was John's personal favourite model, (a very dim memory is telling me his father served on a Pinnace) he always told me he would be keeping the model, but John being the man he was, everything was for sale at the right price.

I stupidly missed a bargain when he sold the Jan tug complete with Proteus plant.

Keep us posted on your restoration please.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2011, 08:35:52 am »

I remember that the Pinnace was John's personal favourite model, (a very dim memory is telling me his father served on a Pinnace) he always told me he would be keeping the model, but John being the man he was, everything was for sale at the right price.

I stupidly missed a bargain when he sold the Jan tug complete with Proteus plant.

Keep us posted on your restoration please.

How did you miss it he offerd it everyone for 12 months, but the price did alter depending on who you where and the mood he was in , >>:-(

Peter %%
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Underpressure

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2011, 08:46:30 am »

How did you miss it he offerd it everyone for 12 months, but the price did alter depending on who you where and the mood he was in , >>:-(

Peter %%

When I say I 'missed it' I mean, I failed to take John up on his kind a generous offer  :}

It was at a time before his illness and before things started to get difficult for the company.

The price was good, but I was not too active at the time, and (as I have rediscovered) it is a BIG boat.

20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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kiwimodeller

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2011, 10:30:24 am »

Greg, have you made any progress with drawings? I would hate to have missed a post saying they were available. I did manage to find a copy of Model Shipwright with plans but interestingly they were for a boat which they called an Admirals Barge and although it looked identical above deck the drawing (presumably to scale) was only 45" long and it had a counter stern. Much as I would like to build from the Metcalf/Models by Design fiberglass hull the freight costs are just too exhorbitant so I will start from scratch when the time comes and that is where line drawings of a square transom boat would come in most useful. Happy to cover printing costs and postage. Thanks, Ian.
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TAG

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #97 on: February 19, 2011, 12:38:59 pm »

kiwimoddler
If it is picket boat plans that you are looking for, I have a copy of "Fifty foot steam picket boat" scale 1 inch to 1 foot by N.A.Ough (2 sheets) which I could get copied and send to you.
Tim
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gondolier88

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2011, 01:06:15 pm »

Greg, have you made any progress with drawings? I would hate to have missed a post saying they were available. I did manage to find a copy of Model Shipwright with plans but interestingly they were for a boat which they called an Admirals Barge and although it looked identical above deck the drawing (presumably to scale) was only 45" long and it had a counter stern. Much as I would like to build from the Metcalf/Models by Design fiberglass hull the freight costs are just too exhorbitant so I will start from scratch when the time comes and that is where line drawings of a square transom boat would come in most useful. Happy to cover printing costs and postage. Thanks, Ian.

Hi Ian,

I havn't as yet, but if you were needing them quite soon I'm sure I could get them done for you.

The admirals barges were built at the same yards and carried along with the Pinnaces on flagships for Admirals and senior captains, as well as ambassadors, mayor of london, royal family etc.

It'll be a good time to do the drawings over the next few weeks as I'm stripping the hull with the steamboat museum's walnut shell blaster that we're borrowing to strip SL Osprey's hull.

I can then fair the hull and take the lines off her.

I've been quite busy with the boiler and a few things for SY Gondola's refit so I havn't had much done on the boat for the past month or so.

I've finally got my camera working properly again (funny how taking 700+ photos of the card makes it work better!), so I promise I'll make an update asap.

TAG's offer is a good one however, his Pinnace is very nice so they can't be bad drawings... :-))

I'd still like to take the lines off mine however as I'll modify them for the eventual build of the admiral's barge.

Here's an example of an admiral's barge on Windermere, now called Janet she was restored by the boatbuilding college at Lowestoft and now resides in the boathouse at the Langdale Chase Hotel near Ambleside (if anyone watches the Lakes programme that's where the 'Gladiator' Thomas Noblett reesides).

Greg
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kiwimodeller

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Re: New project - a restoration/conversion
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2011, 09:16:10 am »

Greg, Janet is certainly beatiful however I had sort of got it in my head that I was going to do a square transom Pickett Boat version in navy livery just to give me something a bit different to my Lady Sarah Windermere launch and my Wide Awake river launch. There is no urgency, I still have finishing work to do on the river launch and I am also expecting another paddler hull sometime soon. If you want a copy of the Model Shipwright article and plans let me know.
Tim, I am happy to get any plans of the 50" version I can lay my hands on (you can never have too much information) and to pay copying and postage costs or to recprocate with copies of the Admirals Barge 45" version if they are of interest. Do the plans you have give bulkhead shapes and lines? As I said in the earlier post I usually try and buy a fiberglass hull and build from that but this time the freight quote was just too much and so I will have my first attempt at building from scratch which is another reason to do the square stern version but I believe I will need lines drawings to do that. Cheers, Ian.
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