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Author Topic: The WOW! signal. You decide.  (Read 3729 times)

justboatonic

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The WOW! signal. You decide.
« on: January 27, 2010, 10:30:49 pm »

I think the 'There's no one out there!' thread has been full of interesting comments and counter comments. But, for a moment, let me look at the other side of the coin, so to speak.

Although I do not think there exists in the galaxy today, any other intelligent civilisations, there is one signal that even I find totally interesting yet enigmatic and, could possibly make me challenge that concept.

SETI@Home is clearly failling in its search to find any signal from ETI's. We need to go back over 30 years to consider an event that could or maybe should have virtually rendered SETI@Home obsolete.

This is known as the WOW! signal because the finder, Dr Jerry Ehman, on going through the previous day's data output from the Big Ear telescope couldnt believe what he was seeing. That was in August 1977.

Many people think the WOW! signal is some kind of coded message. But it isnt. Represented as 6EQUJ5, it is, put simply, merely the rise and fall in signal  carrier wave strength over a 72 second period compared to the background noise. It is not clear whether WOW! is modulated or un modulated.

The Big Ear telescope which is no more, was a fixed antenna roughly the size of a football pitch. It had effectively 2 receivers or collection horns. Since the telescope was fixed to the ground, Big Ear used the earth's rotation to scan the sky. The rotation of the Earth means that each horn would collect data in, effectively, a period over 72 seconds.

Big Ear could not be pointed anywhere specific. It was converted in 1973 to search for narrow band radio source ie radio signals from other intelligent civilisations.

Ehman contends it was almost 4 days (probably 19 August 77) after the signal had been received that he was reviewing the previous days printouts. It was then thaat he noticed the remarkable data which he circled and wrote WOW! next to it, giving it its now famous name.

Without going into any technical detail, the WOW! signal can be imagined as the light from a lighthouse viewed from a distance. The light beam can be seen growing in brightness as it swings towards us. It is at its brightest when we are directly in line with the light. It starts to dim as it moves away from us before finally disappearing from sight.

Now imagine the light from the lighthouse is the WOW! signal and we are the Big Ear. As the signal starts to be received by the equipment, its strength is low but increases as the Earth's rotation starts to align Big Ear with it. The signal reaches a peak as the Earth's rotation is directly aligned with it then starts to fall away.

The signal lasts for 72 seconds, what one would expect due to the fixed position of Big Ear and the Earth's rotation. It was received in the 1420Mhz frequency range which is where a SETI signal could be expected to be found. Subsequent investigations have shown the signal co ordinates suggest it originated from the constellation of Sagittarius. Although Big Ear and other telescopes have tried many times to find the WOW! signal again, all have failed.

Subsequent investigation has been able to show what the WOW! signal wasnt.

The WOW! signal was a narrow band transmission of less than 10Khz meaning it is not 'natural' interference or phenomenon.

The positions of all solar planets was examined and none were even close to the location of the signal source \ direction. Some narrowish band transmission from Jupiter have been recorded but even these did not match WOW!

Positions of asteroids large enough to possibly emit a signal were checked and none were close to the source \ location or direction.

Satellites were discounted for a couple of reasons. WOW! was recieved around the 1420Mhz frequency. This is a 'forbidden' frequency for any Earth based station or satellites. An investigation of all known satellites locations were made but none corresponded to the direct WOW! came from. Even if a secret American or Russian satellite had been put into orbit, it wouldnt be transmitting on the 1420Mhz frequency. Even if it had, it would soon have been noticed and picked up by other telescopes.

Aircraft can similarly be excluded, again because no aircraft transmitters operate on 1420Mhz and, aircraft move rapidly compared to the stars. Wow! came from a fixed position.

Spacecraft can also be discounted for similar reasons, none transmit of 1420Mhz and would be moving rapidly compared to the stars.

A ground based transmission can be discounted again due to the 1420Mhz embargo. Also, since an earth bound transmitter and Big Ear are both fixed to the ground, there would be no way the WOW! signal would show up as gradually increasing to a peak and falling away again and more so in the 72 second period.

Some people have suggested WOW! was an earth based transmission bounced of a piece of space junk or small asteroid. This too was considered but can be discounted. First, it would require the transmission from Earth was on 1420Mhz and as such would break the embargo. Second, the object the signal was bounced off would have to be metal so would rule out a small asteroid. If it was metal, the object would have to be rotating very slowly (1 rotation in an hour or more) which would be unlikely. It would also need to be moving very slowly against the cosmic background which if it was a piece of space junk is highly unlikely.

The signal received by Big Ear can also be discounted to be a harmonic of a lower frequency than 1420Mhz ie 710Mhz or 473Mhz, since, filters on the original broadcasting equipment would significantly reduce the harmonic strength. However, that harmonic signal strength cannot be reduced completely to zero. Big Ear was sensitive enough to detect those harmonics. In any event, frequncies such as 710 or 473Mhz ie tv or radio, have a wider bandwidth than the 10Khz of WOW!.

Gravitational lensing was also considered but can be discounted for another reason.

Interstellar scintillation can best be described as when looking at stars they twinkle. Put simply this is because our atmosphere affects the light from those stars to make them appear to be shimmering. The same thing can happen to radio waves. It is possible for a signal to be enhanced this way and, if the signal was so affected, this indicates the origin is many light years away and tends to support the idea that WOW! is of extra terrestrial origin.

The scientific community will not recognise WOW! due to the fact it was only detected once. Since Big Ear had two recievers, WOW! was only detected in one of them. One would expect the signal would have been received by both receivers some 5 minutes apart ie the time taken for Earth's rotation to bring both of them to bear on the same point in the sky. This, as far as I can tell, is the only problem with WOW!

It is argued to be unlikely a civilisation would have turned off the signal or away from earth in the 5 or so minutes it should have taken the second of Big Ear's receivers to have detected the signal. It is also for this reason that gravitational lensing can probably be discounted.

This assumption however, does not take into account that the signal could have been transmitted our way for nearly 24 hours ie since the last completion of the Earth's rotation. It is not clear from the available information which of Big Ear's two receivers picked up the signal ie the leading receiver or the trailing one.

WOW! remains the most enigmatic signal ever received and repeated attempts to find it again have been unable to do so.
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DARLEK1

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 10:42:11 pm »

1420, is a plasma beam wave length mate, did you know that we actually have a device that can receive these now?

 There is more out there than what they tell us or publicise!

Paul... :-))
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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 11:56:20 pm »

1420, is a plasma beam wave length mate, did you know that we actually have a device that can receive these now?

 There is more out there than what they tell us or publicise!

Paul... :-))

We've had telescopes that can receive on 1420Mhz for years. The point is, 1420Mhz is an internationally recognised and excluded transmission frequency. OH that and the transmission was received in 1977.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 01:18:40 am »

I would say:

1 - the signal must be discounted as evidence of anything - it was only detected once. So what follows is pure speculation.

2 - If I had to quantify WOW, I would say

It matched expected signals from a distance and an electronic glitch was unlikely - Chance it came from far away - 90%

We don't have an easy natural explanation. However, we don't know everything that might happen out there. Chance it was natural - 50%

So I reckon a 45% chance it was of intelligent origin. If it was, it was a beam swept across us because of the two-horn issue (that in itself makes an intelligent origin more likely).

Was it intentional or purely random? If it was intentional why was there no structure to the signal, or repetition? I guess an 80% chance it was random.

If we make some guesses about how often a random beam might sweep us, we could feed that data into a Drake equation.....
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bigH

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2010, 02:56:27 pm »

 >>:-( So ! that is why my >*^"% TX & RX is playing up..........   :-X
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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2010, 03:07:32 pm »

I would say:

1 - the signal must be discounted as evidence of anything - it was only detected once. So what follows is pure speculation.

2 - If I had to quantify WOW, I would say

It matched expected signals from a distance and an electronic glitch was unlikely - Chance it came from far away - 90%

We don't have an easy natural explanation. However, we don't know everything that might happen out there. Chance it was natural - 50%

So I reckon a 45% chance it was of intelligent origin. If it was, it was a beam swept across us because of the two-horn issue (that in itself makes an intelligent origin more likely).

Was it intentional or purely random? If it was intentional why was there no structure to the signal, or repetition? I guess an 80% chance it was random.

If we make some guesses about how often a random beam might sweep us, we could feed that data into a Drake equation.....

Its interesting you say WOW! was only observed once (which it was) so should be discounted. Strange then that SETI and believers of the galaxy being populated by other intelligent civilisations, whether that be one other or many, use the same statistical analysis of 1 ie us, to support their hypothesis that there is other intelligence out there.

The chances of WOW originating far away exceed 90%. Its source is from the direction of Sagittarius

An electronic glitch is possible but it too (the glitch) never reappeared. Statistically, that in itself is unlikely.

Why was there no structure to the signal? The answer to that is we dont know if it was structured or not. Sadly, Big Ear did not record the actual signal (to my knowledge anyway) and only recorded the fact that it grew in strength, peaked then decayed.

It is also not clear from my investigation, whether the signal was modulated or not. We do not know due to this lack of information whether WOW! was telling any receiver to re tune to another frequency,r was some mathmatical equation or just a simple 'Hello!' etc.

As I mentioned before, WOW! could have been directed at Earth for nearly 24 hours before it was tantaisingly recorded by Big Ear. However, there is no way to prove or disprove this because it cannot be determined which of Big Ear's twin receivers actually received it.

Paul Shuch of the SETI League stated "Either the Wow! signal was the intercepted radiation from another civilization, or it's a previously undiscovered astrophysical phenomenon. Either possibility is mind-boggling."

EDIT to remove typo.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2010, 06:43:59 pm »

Its interesting you say WOW! was only observed once (which it was) so should be discounted. Strange then that SETI and believers of the galaxy being populated by other intelligent civilisations, whether that be one other or many, use the same statistical analysis of 1 ie us, to support their hypothesis that there is other intelligence out there.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. No one has ever justified Seti on the ground that a signal may or may not have been detected. Seti is a hypothesis supported by theoretical arguments alone.



The chances of WOW originating far away exceed 90%. Its source is from the direction of Sagittarius


As I said at the start of my comment, this is MY speculation. I have had no chance to examine the electronics for obscure flaws, or to estimate the chances of a practical joke, etc. My estimate on such limited information is 90%. Yours, and everyone else's, estimate may well be different...   
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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 01:48:52 pm »

Sorry, I don't understand your point. No one has ever justified Seti on the ground that a signal may or may not have been detected. Seti is a hypothesis supported by theoretical arguments alone.

What!? You dont understand the point that SETI believers say there must be other intelligent civilisations in the galaxy because we are here ie a statistical analysis of 1, yet those same people say WOW! should be dismissed on a similar analysis because it was only received once?

Put another way, it is really only because Big Ear had two collectors rather than the more usual one of a dish antennae, therefore meaning the signal was only picked up once, that SETI believers say it should be dismissed. In fact, under SETI protocol, WOW! would have had to be detected by three dectors to be claimed valid ie both the collectors of Big Ear plus at least one other telescope.

This raises fundemental questions why SETI will probably never succeed in its quests.

Par chance upon a signal received by say aricebo lasting the time of WOW!. Another independent telescope would need to be contacted and sent the relevant co ordinates and need to verify the signal for SETI to consider accepting it.

Now all that may happen within the 72 second timespan of WOW! but I somehow doubt it would by the time you factor in the realisation, contacting another scope, giving co ordinates and intercepting the signal.

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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 03:03:41 pm »

What!? You dont understand the point that SETI believers say there must be other intelligent civilisations in the galaxy because we are here ie a statistical analysis of 1, yet those same people say WOW! should be dismissed on a similar analysis because it was only received once?

You have lost me when you use the term "a statistical analysis of 1". That terminology does not match any of the maths I know. You may mean a probability of 1 (that is, certain), but I know of nobody making credible assertions that because we exist other civilisations must exist too. They are more likely to say that our existence means that other civilisations are possible...

Quite what the comparison with the 'single' WOW signal detect is meant to mean, I have no idea. Both sentences involve the same number (1), but that number refers to an instance in the WOW case, not a probability. The point you are trying to make escapes me....




Now all that may happen within the 72 second timespan of WOW! but I somehow doubt it would by the time you factor in the realisation, contacting another scope, giving co ordinates and intercepting the signal.

This is swinging wildly away from the topic at hand, but that feat is well within current astronomical capability and is regularly performed at present. You have shown an interest in Gamma Ray Bursts - so you may be aware of the Gamma Ray Bursts Coordination Network (GCN, which took over from BACODINE). Spacecraft such as SWIFT detect bursts and pass the data automatically to a distribution centre. Other telescopes around the world can obtain feeds from these reports and lock onto the source within a few seconds of the initial detection.
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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2010, 08:22:09 pm »

You have lost me when you use the term "a statistical analysis of 1". That terminology does not match any of the maths I know. You may mean a probability of 1 (that is, certain), but I know of nobody making credible assertions that because we exist other civilisations must exist too. They are more likely to say that our existence means that other civilisations are possible...

Quite what the comparison with the 'single' WOW signal detect is meant to mean, I have no idea. Both sentences involve the same number (1), but that number refers to an instance in the WOW case, not a probability. The point you are trying to make escapes me....




This is swinging wildly away from the topic at hand, but that feat is well within current astronomical capability and is regularly performed at present. You have shown an interest in Gamma Ray Bursts - so you may be aware of the Gamma Ray Bursts Coordination Network (GCN, which took over from BACODINE). Spacecraft such as SWIFT detect bursts and pass the data automatically to a distribution centre. Other telescopes around the world can obtain feeds from these reports and lock onto the source within a few seconds of the initial detection.


Sorry but I cant believe your response was structured in such a way.

The statement is sound and nothing is swinging wildly away from the topic. If anything, the examples you quote are swinging off topic since they arent SETI projects and being based in space are largely autonamous.
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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 08:47:34 pm »

SETI Protocol for a signal http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=780

"First, the discoverers should verify that the signal is really extraterrestrial and artificial, not man-made interference or natural, cosmic static. Having done so, those who made the discovery are to notify all the other signatories to the document so that they can independently proceed to check it. They should also inform national authorities. Next on the list of those notified are all the world’s astronomers, so that every available telescope can be used to study the source of the signal. And then there’s this, verbatim from the protocol; namely that the detection “should be disseminated promptly, openly, and widely through scientific channels and public media…”

Well, real life is messy, as Pigpen knew. The disorder arises from the fact that the highly sensitive antennas used by SETI, coupled to digital receivers monitoring a hundred million channels or more, turn up signals all the time. When we were using the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico, there were detections falling out of the receivers every few seconds. This is not like in the movies, when a control-room oscilloscope suddenly goes from flatline to a profile resembling a sharpened pencil point, encouraging bored-looking scientists to wake up and start screaming. In reality, sifting through all those signals to see if any have the characteristics of an extraterrestrial source takes a long time. It’s days before you’re sure, or at least reasonably sure."

Seth doesnt alude to all these automatic telescopes suddenly stopping what they are doing and instead focus on a SETI signal. Now of course Seth could just have missed that bit out in this article but I doubt it. Im certain if SETI had anything in place to follow the protocol of SWIFT when it spots a gamma ray burst, Seth would be pushing that loud and clear.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 10:33:19 pm »

What we have here is a failure to communicate (Paul Newman) :}

This point now seems wildly confused.

For the avoidance of doubt, my understanding is that you claimed that there was a 'fundamental reason that SETI would fail in its quest', which was that it would be impossible to obtain confirmation from other telescopes of a possible alien signal if it only lasted for some tens of seconds, since the time to inform them was too short.

I thought that there were several things wrong with that suggestion. For a start, you must be aware that the SETI project checks that it can re-acquire any possible candidate signal several times over a matter of months before informing any external project. If it cannot, the signal is no longer considered a candidate. However, you also appeared to think that separate telescopes could never be slewed to pick up a confirmation that quickly, and I am well aware of a currently existing system which does just this very thing. So I told you about it.

There was no imputation that this is what SETI does. SETI has no need to do this, since it is looking for point sources which remain in place for long periods of time. The only point I made was that it was not an impossibility, should SETI ever wish to do it ....
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 11:14:54 pm »

I think the crucial point now is that, apart from you two - is there still anybody out there?  %)
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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2010, 12:34:22 am »

Well, I'm certainly not here. Or at least, not all here.

With regard to what IS here, I am reminded of that sum in Alice through the Looking Glass Ch 9:


"'I suppose—' Alice was beginning, but the Red Queen answered for her. 'Bread-and-butter, of course. Try another Subtraction sum. Take a bone from a dog: what remains?'

Alice considered. 'The bone wouldn't remain, of course, if I took it—and the dog wouldn't remain; it would come to bite me—and I'm sure I shouldn't remain!'

'Then you think nothing would remain?' said the Red Queen.

'I think that's the answer.'

'Wrong, as usual,' said the Red Queen: 'the dog's temper would remain.'

'But I don't see how—'

'Why, look here!' the Red Queen cried. 'The dog would lose its temper, wouldn't it?'

'Perhaps it would,' Alice replied cautiously.

'Then if the dog went away, its temper would remain!' the Queen exclaimed triumphantly.

Alice said, as gravely as she could, 'They might go different ways.' But she couldn't help thinking to herself, 'What dreadful nonsense we ARE talking!'

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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2010, 11:43:40 am »

What we have here is a failure to communicate (Paul Newman) :}

This point now seems wildly confused.

For the avoidance of doubt, my understanding is that you claimed that there was a 'fundamental reason that SETI would fail in its quest', which was that it would be impossible to obtain confirmation from other telescopes of a possible alien signal if it only lasted for some tens of seconds, since the time to inform them was too short.

I thought that there were several things wrong with that suggestion. For a start, you must be aware that the SETI project checks that it can re-acquire any possible candidate signal several times over a matter of months before informing any external project. If it cannot, the signal is no longer considered a candidate. However, you also appeared to think that separate telescopes could never be slewed to pick up a confirmation that quickly, and I am well aware of a currently existing system which does just this very thing. So I told you about it.

There was no imputation that this is what SETI does. SETI has no need to do this, since it is looking for point sources which remain in place for long periods of time. The only point I made was that it was not an impossibility, should SETI ever wish to do it ....

No now you see that's where you are not correct. I have said I consider SETI will fail but for a number of reasons. You seem content to isolate just one of those possibilities. I never said it was impossible. My statement was 'This raises fundemental questions why SETI will probably never succeed in its quests.'

You have gone off on a tangent regarding SETI finding a suitable candidate that is sufficiently long (timewise) and repeating to enable it to be found. A candidate signal may never meet this criteria ergo WOW! In such circumstances SETI will fail to find a candidate.

You yourself have proposed on another thread that SETI has to 'borrow' time on other telescopes. This may be true to a greater or lesser degree although SERENDIP 2 and piggybacking on arecibo gives greater coverage. If it is the case that SETI is not given full time priority access on other telescopes, I fail to see how, if another signal such as WOW! lasting 72 seconds is received, at least one other telescope would immediately stop its primary function, be re aligned to the signal's co ordinates and the full signal obtained. This does not also take into account the time taken to contact parties using those telescopes and getting through the chaff of 'what's going on!'

Given your scenario where what I'd call an ultimate SETI signal was received then what you propose could well be the case if the signal existed long enough.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2010, 12:58:42 pm »

You have gone off on a tangent regarding SETI finding a suitable candidate that is sufficiently long (timewise) and repeating to enable it to be found. A candidate signal may never meet this criteria ergo WOW! In such circumstances SETI will fail to find a candidate.

The SETI project is looking for a conjectured beacon signal, so it is presumed that this will be of long duration. SETI is designed to look for long, continuous signals. It was never designed to look for short intermittent signals. I do not see why pointing this out is going 'off on a tangent'.

This really takes me back to my original point - that we have hardly begun to look, and that is why we have found so little. If you believe that we should be looking for short bursts of signal, and confirming these with multiple detects, then we have NEVER looked in this way, so it is hardly surprising that we have detected nothing....


"..I fail to see how, if another signal such as WOW! lasting 72 seconds is received, at least one other telescope would immediately stop its primary function, be re aligned to the signal's co ordinates and the full signal obtained. This does not also take into account the time taken to contact parties using those telescopes and getting through the chaff of 'what's going on!'

As I said earlier, SETI is not designed to do this. However, it is quite possible to do this, and other experiments (which are nothing to do with SETI) already do it. So if SETI decided to do it, and had the finance and resources to arrange it, SETI would simply do something similar to what the other experiments are doing already.

To illustrate the principle, here is a paper reporting the ROTSE-3 network of robotic telescopes which takes a feed from the GCN that I mentioned earlier. You will see that at best speed the telescopes are capable of slewing to a position and opening their shutters within 6-8 seconds of being informed of a GRB incident by SWIFT...

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/pubs/yost06a.pdf

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justboatonic

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2010, 02:23:34 pm »

The SETI project is looking for a conjectured beacon signal, so it is presumed that this will be of long duration. SETI is designed to look for long, continuous signals. It was never designed to look for short intermittent signals. I do not see why pointing this out is going 'off on a tangent'.

This really takes me back to my original point - that we have hardly begun to look, and that is why we have found so little. If you believe that we should be looking for short bursts of signal, and confirming these with multiple detects, then we have NEVER looked in this way, so it is hardly surprising that we have detected nothing....


As I said earlier, SETI is not designed to do this. However, it is quite possible to do this, and other experiments (which are nothing to do with SETI) already do it. So if SETI decided to do it, and had the finance and resources to arrange it, SETI would simply do something similar to what the other experiments are doing already.

To illustrate the principle, here is a paper reporting the ROTSE-3 network of robotic telescopes which takes a feed from the GCN that I mentioned earlier. You will see that at best speed the telescopes are capable of slewing to a position and opening their shutters within 6-8 seconds of being informed of a GRB incident by SWIFT...

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/pubs/yost06a.pdf



I dont see why you persist with the arguement that since SWIFT is capable of quickly moving, SETI telescopes will \ can \ could. SWIFT is an entirely different proposition and whether it quickly acquires a burst is pretty much immaterial. Its function is to capature its target bursts quickly ie that is its primary mission. By your own admission, SETI is not the primary mission on most telescopes.

Using SWIFT as an example is completely incorrect.

Anyway, from SETI itself "If ET exists and is broadcasting but is not broadcasting @ 1420mhz, SETI@Home wil miss it completely no matter how long the search goes on."
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dodgy geezer

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Re: The WOW! signal. You decide.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2010, 04:11:13 pm »

I dont see why you persist with the arguement that since SWIFT is capable of quickly moving, SETI telescopes will \ can \ could.

Because you said

"This raises fundemental questions why SETI will probably never succeed in its quests.
Par chance upon a signal received by say aricebo lasting the time of WOW!. Another independent telescope would need to be contacted and sent the relevant co ordinates and need to verify the signal for SETI to consider accepting it.
Now all that may happen within the 72 second timespan of WOW! but I somehow doubt it would by the time you factor in the realisation, contacting another scope, giving co ordinates and intercepting the signal."



Which I took you to mean that SETI (though never intended to find short duration signals) would be fundamentally unable to do so if it were asked to do this. 


Anyway, from SETI itself "If ET exists and is broadcasting but is not broadcasting @ 1420mhz, SETI@Home wil miss it completely no matter how long the search goes on."


Quite correct. And yet another reason why, in my view, our attempts to scan the sky for evidence of alien intelligence should be characterised as few and sporadic. It is incorrect to say that we have been looking for a long time without finding anything so this implies that there is nothing to find. We have really done very little looking in very narrow and limited fields, and Kepler is another example of a limited examination of what's out there....


 

 
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