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Author Topic: Azimuth drives/zDrives  (Read 6418 times)

destroyer42

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Azimuth drives/zDrives
« on: January 31, 2010, 07:43:48 PM »

Hi,
Can anyone tell me if I can get hold of Azimuth drives that are bigger than the Graupner plastic one's. What I'm looking for is approximately 90mm diameter nozzles. Preferable the drives constructed from metal. Is their any member how has a lath that can take on a commission to build 3 of them. I not sure if off the shelf one's would be up to the job of driving a 1/32 Rota tug.
Any advice would be appreciated as I have not got a lathe and I doubt if I could use one if I had.

Destroyer 42
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 07:59:33 PM »

Have you posted this request on the Model Tug Forum, too? If not, it might get some response from guys who don't use this one (shame on them!).
FLJ
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ray123

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 09:37:43 PM »

hi colin  the guy's in canada have them  about 4inch all metal construction but are very expencive    the large graupner shottles arnt to bad they could do with beffing the up a bit   (the ones that go in the tito nero this is about 38inch loa ) regards ray
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destroyer42

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 07:44:51 PM »

Hi FLJ & Ray111
Many thanks  FLJ for posting on model tug forum. Ray what do mean beef the graupner drives up are you talking about the plastic cogs?
Do the graupner drives turn 360 degrees if not can they be adjusted to do this or has FLJ got something in his electronic gizmo's box that would do it.

Regards
Colin Aka Destroyer42.
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ray123

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 08:21:21 PM »

hi colin  i have a graupner cataloge ill bring it to the boat meeting to show you them!   these ones dont go  360    'but the ones in canada do'  regards ray 
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catengineman

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »

The large (Tito Neri) Graupner drives can be made to operate in a 360 deg motion. as std fitting from Graupner they use servos which are restricted to movement but this can be altered.
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destroyer42

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 05:47:46 PM »

Hi Catengineman,
How do I alter the servo's to turn the drives 360 degrees and what servo's do I use?
Also how would I know what way the drives are facing when the boat is in the water in respect of the transmitter.
I think I may have bitten more than I can chew on this project. However nothing like having a go.

Destroyer42
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catengineman

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 05:58:30 PM »

I did a cheap way with servos which did give me some real head aches in that I did not know which way the thrust was unless I could see the tug clearly.
There is a chap who used a laptop and to have information where the drives were at any given time.
Then I seem to remember that there was also one done with telemetry back to a unit with the operator.
I have been away from this site for a while now and I am sure there are others who can remember who did what and how.
I also think there is a 'pushboat captain' who made his own transmitter controllers to operate the drives as in the real thing.
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first tug

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 08:15:00 PM »

Does anybody have any info on the guy's in Canada for these drives would like to investagate this possibility

Ps Collin could let me know about the upgrade for the cogs on the drives
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destroyer42

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 05:47:24 PM »

Hi First Tug,
I think the guy in Canada is Ron Burchett who makes the drives. But I could be mistaken. Ray111 on this forum knows the guy he has also visited him in British Columbia. I'm seeing Ray at our club night on 05/02/10 i will ask him.

Destroyer 42.
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first tug

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 08:31:32 PM »

Thanks
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malcolm.howard2

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2010, 01:55:35 PM »

This is my version of prop system. It is a 100mm /4 inch, home made steel prop shaft. The prop shaft is constructed from a 4mm thick steel disc and uses a cheap 3 right angle gearbox drive as used in electric drills. The gearbox was stripped and two new bronze bushes were made, with extensions to fit the mounting tube and long driveshaft. When reassembled the gearbox case was completely fiberglassed to waterproof the unit. The gearbox is lubricated via a grease nipple fitted where the drill handle used to be. The propeller is driven by a Smiths heater motor via a cogged drive belt with a 3 : 1 reduction gear. Steering is by cogged belt  with a 4 : 1 reduction, giving full rotation, using a Hitec sail winch servo. the unit has been tested in a pond and seems to work. 4 photos are included.
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catengineman

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2010, 06:31:20 PM »

The biggest problem I found was the radial thrust of the prop in the Kort nozzle could over power the servo at 4/5ths drive power and above which meant to steer you had to come the power to allow the unit to be turned by the servo (even a high torque one) I ended up setting the max power to that which the servos could cope with and this seemed to be well within the scale speeds this tug would do in the real world.

I did link 2 servos together as an experiment but this had no benefit, I also moved the servo from its (Graupner) place then used a belt and different ratio sprockets to get 200* control this was very successful but for the belts stretching then slipping a few teeth after prolonged use.

R
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Tug_Fan

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2010, 08:52:51 PM »

Hello there,

this thread is a little bit older, but the problem is very common for ASD-Tug builders.

One possible solution (proven!) is using a gear motor, driving a worm gear that drives a pretty big wheel.
This wheel is on the turning axis of the Azimuth stern drive / Schottel drive.
When adding a potentiometer with a kind of gear, controlling the turning gear motor with the electronics
of a servo, you can get a very nice maximum angle of turn.

A guy from the netherlands had posted some interesting pics in a german forum. (The guys nick is jan41).
He is the builder of several VSP and ASD Tugs in pretty big scales, building his drives homemade.

Here is a page from a german forum:
http://www.schiffsmodell.net/showthread.php?t=31224&highlight=schottel&page=5

and here is a pic:
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2517/vikingbank24december200sx1.jpg

The orange gear is for driving the potentiometer.

A source for schottel drives is aeronaut / jedamski in Germany - but they are pretty expensive.

So I wonder if there are drawings for homemade azimuth stern drives.

Best Regards
Holger

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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Azimuth drives/zDrives
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 10:57:36 PM »

If you have the extra funds, I think these are also available from Germany...

http://www.gramcko.de/

 :-)
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