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Author Topic: Assistance please  (Read 4644 times)

dougal99

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Assistance please
« on: January 03, 2007, 07:58:59 PM »

Evening All,

In my capacity as Chairman of my local model club I have been asked to help with the identification of a boat (type) and advise on the rigging detail. As my knowledge of sail is, to say the least rudimentary, I am seeking your help. The model was built by the enquirers father and has recently been rediscovered in the loft. The gentleman now wishes to rig the boat but does not know how to proceed. I have only had a brief telephone talk with him and his boat knowledge is worse than mine  ;D so clear explanations are the order of the day.

Any help on type of boat and guidance on rigging detail (or pointer for where to look) gratefully received.

Cheers

Doug
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andywright

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 09:23:46 PM »

Well I wish I had found that in my loft, what a beautifull looking boat, I would say it is a model of a sailing fishing vessel, probably from the South West Coastal area, just an educated quess.
The sails don't look too bad condition to me, I have some worse condition ones than that. She wqill be most likely gaff rigged, possibly ketch, with a main topsail and two or three forsails set on a bow sprit, Hope this helps. If the boat was close to Cardiff I could give practical demo how to rig it, maybe there are some sails missing!!
Andy
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boatmadman

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 09:41:46 PM »

Hi,
How many mast steps are there? because that larger sail looks a bit like a lugsail to me. If it is, its possible the other one is a mizzen sail.

Ian
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andywright

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 10:03:13 PM »

I thought that as well, she is some boat though
Andy
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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 10:07:06 AM »

Hi, very nice looking boat.  I agree in the main with the above.  The straight stem suggests a fishing boat but there is not much provision  for hatches on deck.  It could be, as pointed out from the S.W. coast, and be a Fruit Schooner.  These were fast boats that would sail to France and Spain and bring back fresh fruit around 1890-1900 era.  The length to beam ratio can give an idea of actual scale. 

I am a little suspicious of the very wide winch at the bow and wonder how much of the design may be 'freelance'
I have just restored a boat about 30 inches loa not dissimilar but not to the apparent standard of this one. I have not put pictures up but if you are interested I could email you some of the finished model.
I am quite jealous of your find!
regards  Roy
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2007, 08:13:30 PM »

Gents,

Thanks for your info.

Ian, I do not know how many masts she has, I will have to get in touch with the owner.

Andy, thanks for you offer of a practical demo but the owner lives just outside Peterborough so Cardiff would be a bit of a trek.

Roy, I would be grateful for some photos of the model you worked on. I'll PM you my email address.

Thanks again

Doug
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tobyker

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 11:35:00 PM »

Interesting. There's obviously one two-part mast there - and is the sail with two spars a lug or gaff sail? I'd say the latter, given the two-part mast, unless it's some weird french Chasse-Maree rig with lug courses and topsails. It's difficult to say as one can't see from the pictures where the mast steps are. or whether there is provision for a bowsprit. But two-masted lug rigged boats might get away without a bowsprit, (Fifies?) whereas I'd expect a boat with a two-part mast to have a foresail and jib, and maybe a flying jib too. However if there's nothing at the stem head to locate a bowsprit, and nowhere for the heel of the sprit, maybe there wasn't one. It would help to see the available sails spread out flat.  I'd love a look at the boat. but Ayrshire is a bit far away!

Good luck.
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boatmadman

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 11:57:22 PM »

Hey Tobyker,
I have a cousin in prestwick who builds model boats, dunno if he uses this forum though

Ian
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2007, 07:59:51 PM »

Roy

Photos received thanks very much, very useful.

Tobyker

Thanks for your input. I have spoken with the owner, unfortunately he seems very unsure whether the boat has mast steps in the deck. I may well have to arrange to physically see the model. Hopefully that will provide better information.

Thanks to all for your input. Any more?

Cheers

Doug
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White Ensign

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 09:53:21 PM »

Seems to me as  one Mast, gaff-rigged with two foresails. I have once seen a photograph of a shark-cutter, which was used by Arbed Fuchs who saile to the northpole with it.
Though it is no yacht, much more a fishing vessel. The hull might be one of the Brixham-trawlers, as his appearance is very much that type of boat or a pilot cutter.
Attached you will find two photographs, which might give a clue of the rigging.
Hope that was out of any help,
Jörg
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 05:07:15 PM »

Jörg

Thanks very much. Hopefully these photos will prove very useful.

Doug
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White Ensign

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2007, 10:13:22 AM »

Doug, there is also a page in Germany which might be helpfull:
Have a try at www.ig-minisail.de

Jörg
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2007, 09:26:37 PM »

Jörg

Thanks for your input however, the link doesn't work for me. I get a page not found error.

Doug
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JayDee

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2007, 11:24:38 PM »

Hello dougal99,
Try this    www.minisail.de
Works for me!!
John. ;)
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2007, 08:41:05 PM »

Yup that works.

TVM

Doug
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2007, 10:44:22 PM »

I now have further information on the model. We believe it to be a pilot or revenue cutter from the east of England possibly Essex. It is single masted and gaff rigged. The model is substantially finished but some of the deck detail and the rigging points are missing.  We believe it must have been made from a plan but the owner has no knowledge of this. There are also fittings on the deck that indicate that the model was built from a working model plan. I have looked through my MAP/Model Boats catalogues 1964 on with no success.

The model is 28 inches long with a 9 inch beam. The bow sprit adds 13.5 inches giving a LOA of 41.5 inches. The hull is POF construction

Does anyone have an idea of what plans may have been used?

Doug

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tobyker

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2007, 09:48:23 AM »

No idea what plan. Nice finish on the hull. It is strange that the deck was all varnished etc but there is no indication of where the mast steps, though it is presumably between the two eyes screwed into the deck aft of the jib horse and the strange black breakwater/whatever. There also seems to be a spare bit of wire between the breakwater and the windlass. I don't think the hull or rig are extreme enough for a revenue cutter, and she doesn't look like a working boat to me, though the large windlass doesn't suit a yacht either. I wonder whether the rudder is large enough for sailing.
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MikeK

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2007, 11:16:46 AM »

That black 'breakwater' has a couple of notches in it that look like one half of a pair of  'Jollyboat' cradles or similar. Doesn't answer anything - just poses more questions !  ??? ???

MikeK
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John W E

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2007, 01:58:19 PM »

hi all

Ive just been looking through an 'old' David MacGregor plans catalogue - and towards the end it there are several plans for fore and aft rigged vessels.

The closest I could see is the photograph which is here.  On the plan its says 'hull length 25" and I believe that you have a hull which is slightly bigger'.   If you can try and scrutinize the photograph, you will see that the hull is virtually identical.   I am unsure if MacGregor plans are being re-issued yet - I believe there is an address somewhere on this Forum for these plans.

Aye
John E
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dougal99

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Re: Assistance please
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 07:51:47 PM »

Thanks for the input guys. Every little helps (if that's not advertising now  ::) )

We believe the 'black cradle' was to store the gaff when not in use.

Wil follow up the MacGregor lead thanks.

Has anyone a generic rigging plan for this type of rig?

Doug
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