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Author Topic: RC planes - licence?  (Read 10966 times)

funtimefrankie

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RC planes - licence?
« on: February 17, 2010, 08:30:16 am »

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The long Build

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 08:38:18 am »

reads to me if only being used for surveillance..

All unmanned aircraft, not just ones that weigh 15lb (7kg) or more, now have to be licensed to conduct aerial surveillance work after the law changed at the start of the year

So as the police were using it without a licence do the Criminals who were caught from its use get off ?.. as it was technically an illegal operation ??  <:(
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Netleyned

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 08:48:16 am »

How do you qualify surveillance?
What about all the flyers with mini cameras
on their models?
If you have a submarine cam will it
need a marine exploration licence?

Ned
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The long Build

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 08:56:15 am »

In this case to me surveillance is for the form of gathering information which could lead to some legal action against the person or persons under surveillance..

Flyer's / boaters  with mini cams  would not be affected.

I really don't think the average modeller has any worries, and even if they did introduce a requirement for a licence I'd love to see them enforce it..
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Roger in France

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 09:18:40 am »

There are many regulations which are not or cannot be enforced, actively. When I was a law enforcement officer in the UK if an offence was detected and charges followed it was always another offence if a license was required but not held.

Also, if a complaint is made or if an accident occurs and you are unlicensed then action can and does take place and any insurance you may have would probably prove invalid.

For example, here in France below ground swimming pools must be fenced or protected ultrasonically such as to prevent access by a child under 5. No inspection or enforcement takes place but if there is an accident your household insurance becomes invalid.

Similarly, here, you are required to have household insurance. No inspection or enforcement is applied but you cannot buy a house without proof of insurance.

Roger in France
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The long Build

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 09:45:25 am »

Fair comment Roger , But I still can not see this being an issue for the the modeller , unless of course you start to conduct your own surveillance , and I would imagine that would take it to another level, Privacy laws Etc Etc ..
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malcolmfrary

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 10:28:57 am »

A flying device equipped with a camera is only potentially a surveillance device, much like a camera in your hand.  If your flying camera takes pictures of general scenery for your own interest, no-one else would be interested.  If, on the other hand, you start taking pictures of particular people and/or places with the intention gathering information, it becomes surveillance.  Otherwise, the plane is just a tall tripod for the camera.  It does look like another area that the paparazzi will exploit, and will no doubt, it the fullness of time, ruin a perfectly good hobby for the innocent with a mountain of rules.
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The long Build

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 10:33:10 am »

If they should be conducting surveillance , say over my property and it crashed in said property can I keep it because they look really great  :} :}
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funtimefrankie

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 10:42:32 am »

I asked the question because, when we were discussing this in the pub last night, my mate that "knows everything about flying " 'cos he has a microlight licence, said that all model planes had to licenced by the CAA.
I disagreed. :}
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The long Build

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 10:58:56 am »

I asked the question because, when we were discussing this in the pub last night, my mate that "knows everything about flying " 'cos he has a microlight licence, said that all model planes had to licenced by the CAA.
I disagreed. :}

Not to my Knowledge , but I could well be wrong.
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Circlip

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 11:42:07 am »

How short are the memories. It used to be a requirement in the 27Mhz days to hold a transmission license with a designated "Centre of Operations" which was issued at a cost of 1 for 5years. This was at a time when we respected ALL forms of authority so pulsing the button WITHOUT a bit of paper would normally invoke the wrath of fellow modellers and have us sent to the dark depths of a Midlands town. This bit of paper applied to the transmitter/receiver irrespective of what the receiver was wrapped inside, land sea or air.

   This all changed when the Walkie Talkie Convoy brigade flooded the airwaves with illegal radio gear and the allocation of new frequencies was done in an attempt to safeguard the general public from "Swamped" guided (Un) missiles cos some little "Tinker" found he/she/it could make toy aircraft do fancy tricks when they turned their C/B gear on.

 Due to the expense of trying to police licenses, the powers that be stopped taking the quid from us when 35Mhz FM was allocated to AIRCRAFT ONLY operations and 27Mhz AM still for ALL clasifications of toys.

  What yer human kite guy is reffering to is the fact that ALL toy aircraft ABOVE a certain weight have to be built to a spec. and certified by the CAA. This came into operation when the Roy Lever "Big Model" fraternity came into operation and made sure that the airframe was structurally capable of supporting the 15cc and well upwards range of engines and that failsafes were built into the radio systems. 'Taint Missile Theory to imagine the damage that this size of toy can inflict if it goes Ape ****.    Sometimes wonder about the "Fast" toy boats on open water, cos our 31" Seaplane Tender with a 2 1/2cc racer did a pretty good emulation of a cruise missile after hitting a submerged rock. Managed 15Ft airbourne.

   Regards  Ian.

Edit. ALMOST forgot. There are also limitations on toy planes with regards to height limitations and proximity to local airports.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 12:27:08 pm »

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Netleyned

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 12:56:32 pm »

Now the Scots Rugby team has one!
How long before every team that can afford
it will be embracing the 'new' technology
Futaba will make even more money!
How long before one ditches outside
the Stadium boundaries causing Much mayhem?
Then the rule book will come out


Yours Aye
Ned
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JayDee

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 01:08:39 pm »


Hello,

Flying model planes does not require a Licence, Insurance is a must have, because on the Health and Safety issues.
The Police were using a system known as "First Person View ".
This involves the "Pilot" to use a headset Monitor to guide the model plane.
At any time the plane may NOT be in line of sight view of the Pilot, he would only be able to see through the
on board video camera in the model plane.

Risky to say the least !.

Here is a Link to more info    http://www.bfpvmfa.org/downloads/safetyguidelines.pdf

John.  :-))
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Netleyned

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 01:48:11 pm »

This is CAA CAP393 Air Navigation The Orders and Regulations Amendment 2/2009

Para 11
The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must be satisfied that a flight may be made safely and must maintain direct visual contact.
Additional restrictions are imposed on the flight of small unmanned aircraft equipped to undertake surveillance or data aquisition


How can you let an aircraft get out of sight?
Surely that would be a No Pay get out for any insurance you may have

Ned
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andyn

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2010, 03:01:24 pm »

To fly any model aircraft (not toy) in this country solo you need BMFA insurance and a BMFA 'A' certificate anyway.
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Circlip

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2010, 05:46:27 pm »

Sorry Andyn, to fly ANY toy (Model) aircraft in this country it is NOT obligatory to have Insurance, and neither is it neccesary to become a member of the BMFA beyond what I said re the large model group.

  Regards  Ian.
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andyn

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2010, 06:52:53 pm »

True, but if you cause any damage to anyone or anything having not gone through the proper channels, you'd be deep in the s***
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elvis

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2010, 07:48:54 pm »

hi all
don't the guys that fly the model pulse jets and model jet engined planes need a licence?
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justboatonic

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2010, 08:23:46 pm »

hi all
don't the guys that fly the model pulse jets and model jet engined planes need a licence?

If you have a large model as defined by the Large Model Association then you need a CAA exemption certificate. This could be classed as a 'licence' of sorts.

You only need a CAA exemption certificate for jet powered planes, gliders or helis if they are over the LMA weight limit (about 16 kilos?). You dont specifically need a licence for jet engine models. I guess the same goes for pulse jets. Its the weight that counts, not the motive power.

The requirement for RC Tx \ Rx licence ended years ago (early 80's I think).
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Nordsee

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2010, 05:03:24 pm »

If they should be conducting surveillance , say over my property and it crashed in said property can I keep it because they look really great  :} :}
He was wrong, you are correct. Models only need to be registered and checked by the CAA if they are over, I think, 15 Kilos, which is some model! I think then there are restrictions on where you can fly it, and when.
  Here in Germany our Household Third Party Insurance, which is compulsury, insure you for a Glider, upto 5 kilos in weight. Some Glider! Any powered model, including electric, have to be insured seperately. Costs about 65 pounds a year.
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Circlip

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2010, 05:35:46 pm »

Think you'll find that for normal operation, pulse jets are still illegal. They have been demonstrated at model flying displays by "Experienced" continental fliers where they are legal.

  Strange that when the turbine powered models emerged thet were accepted without a murmer, but the blowlamps are still banned. Must be the pressurised fuel supply although turbines need a pumped feed.

 But again, there is no compulsion to have insurance.

  Regards  Ian.
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The long Build

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2010, 06:05:55 pm »

Re an earlier post by Circlip, I saw today in a 1979 addition of Model boats an add by the Government reminding Modellers to make sure their licence was up to date ,  2.95 for 5 years. 

I had a unit then as well and never knew you needed  a licence.. :police:
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Nordsee

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2010, 03:19:38 pm »

He was wrong, you are correct. Models only need to be registered and checked by the CAA if they are over, I think, 15 Kilos, which is some model! I think then there are restrictions on where you can fly it, and when.
  Here in Germany our Household Third Party Insurance, which is compulsury, insure you for a Glider, upto 5 kilos in weight. Some Glider! Any powered model, including electric, have to be insured seperately. Costs about 65 pounds a year.
Update to this, found a notice in the box of one of the RTF foam models, which states that as from 2005 all model aircraft capable of flying higher than 30 metres, 100 feet, must be insured against 3rd Party Claims- I wonder how many are? The notice was printed in about 10 different languages, so maybe it is an EU thing, again!!
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tigertiger

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Re: RC planes - licence?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2010, 12:34:07 am »

Ref the original topic.
There are a number of 'weasel words' here. This is probably the kind of terms that would be thrashed out in court.

'Surveillance' - Perhaps aerial photography for purposes other than gathering information or watching people (stalking/paparazzi) are exempt.

'Aircraft' - At what point does an model become a craft.

'Unmanned' - There will probably be some distinction between unmanned and radio control. Perhaps having the technology to fly further than line of sight. I.E. some telemetry, or TV with a pilots eye view beamed back to an operator.
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