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[wbeedie]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7040245.ece



Washington refused to endorse British claims to sovereignty over the Falkland Islands yesterday as the diplomatic row over oil drilling in the South Atlantic intensified in London, Buenos Aires and at the UN.

Despite Britain’s close alliance with the US, the Obama Administration is determined not to be drawn into the issue. It has also declined to back Britain’s claim that oil exploration near the islands is sanctioned by international law, saying that the dispute is strictly a bilateral issue.

[justboatonic]

Hmmmm. Interesting! HMS York intercepts argentine navy ship recently.

Navy intercepts Argentinian warship near British waters
The Royal Navy has intercepted an Argentinian warship near British waters in an apparent escalation of the row over the Falkland Islands.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/7313829/Navy-intercepts-Argentinian-warship-near-British-waters.html

As for the yanks, Obama is getting really, really tedious with his stance on the UK. The US seems to depend a lot on the UK to support its stance in Europe, the Middle East and Afghanistan. It wasnt long after coming to office that an Obama aid actually told the FCO that the UK 'does not have a special relationship' with the US and that we are 'just like anyone else.'


Well gee, guys, thanks a lot for your support. Not!

[BarryM]

Isn't it about time we dropped all pretence to a "special relationship" with the USA? The USA only highlights such relationships when it suits them and certainly not exclusively with the UK.

Barry M

[Bryan Young]

Ah... now I see where you are coming from. My apologies for not realising sooner. You were saying that the local FCO people on the ground knew what was happening, but that the mandarins in King Charles Street rejected their advice. That is perfectly correct. I'm afraid I have only dealt with Whitehall staff, and so my view of the FCO is rather coloured...

As I think I indicated earlier, I worked at the Northwood Command and Control Headquarters at this time, and was well placed to view a lot of the politics, including everyone on the intelligence side rapidly back-pedalling... The classic example of this kind of thing, of course, is Craig Murray, our former ambassador to Uzbekistan, who got into a lot of hot water telling FCO things about Islom Karimov they didn't want to hear. I am sure the same fate would have awaited anyone who tried to force the FCO to lay a half-way decent intelligence appreciation in front of the JIC before the Argentine invasion.....

All forgiven now? Sorry (again) for the slight beffudlement from my tiring thing that used to be called a brain. BY.

[The long Build]

Isn't it about time we dropped all pretence to a "special relationship" with the USA? The USA only highlights such relationships when it suits them and certainly not exclusively with the UK.

Barry M

And I believe / read that in the 1982 engagement that there were a few US politicians who were in favour of abstaining !! any open aid. As they did not want to upset the Argentinians at that time because of the Russian influence in the Area.

I'm waiting for the film where the Us saved the Day in the Falklands..

[dodgy geezer]

Sorry (again) for the slight beffudlement from my ... brain.

No apology necessary. I was equally confused - but happy to see that proper communication sorted it out.

And you raised a very important point - people who have not worked in government may assume that, say, the US or the UK, or, indeed Argentina, speak with one voice. In reality there will be people in each administration looking for peace, for war, for appeasement, for negotiation, for a host of differing outcomes to suit their own internal political ends. One group will win (usually the ones who are closest to the seat of power, but furthest from actually knowing what is really going on, and that policy will then be followed until it fails... 

[Turbulent]

What replaced Exocett and have we got the computer "Crack" to overide it this time????

  "One or two nuclear subs"??? have we got that many left and working??

   Regards  Ian

Yes & yes

Unlike last time, we have Cruise missile armed Subs  - there's at least one there at the moment, so I've heard.

The raised awareness this time around will probably be enough to dissuade them.

[justboatonic]

And I believe / read that in the 1982 engagement that there were a few US politicians who were in favour of abstaining !! any open aid. As they did not want to upset the Argentinians at that time because of the Russian influence in the Area.

I'm waiting for the film where the Us saved the Day in the Falklands..

Is right. Jean Kirkpatrick(?) was the US ambassador to the UN. At first she voted to support the UK when the matter came before the UN but then rather extraordinarily, later stated in the UN that 'her country should have abstained' and not voted to support the UK.

We also had recently deceased Al Haigh shuttling backwards and forwards doing very little of substance for the UK too.

[Perkasaman2]

There are 60 billion tangible reasons why UK policy/actions may be more proactive than those of the past.

[BarryM]

If they exist and in exploitable form.

[snowwolflair]

Chavez supporting Argentina means, for no other reason, the US will continue to back the UK.

Remember it may be a "British" exploration effort but it is bankroled by US oil companies.

[BarryM]

Desire Petroleum is a British company listed on the London Stock Exchange but some shares are held by US companies.

I was surprised to find that exploration drilling commenced in 1998; I can't recall the Argies making a comparable fuss then or have I had a Senior Moment?

Barry M 

[Turbulent]

Desire Petroleum is a British company listed on the London Stock Exchange but some shares are held by US companies.

I was surprised to find that exploration drilling commenced in 1998; I can't recall the Argies making a comparable fuss then or have I had a Senior Moment?

Barry M 

They probably weren't in political meltdown that month!

[BarryM]

I thought they were always teetering on political meltdown?

Barry M

[Bryan Young]

Can anyone explain just why S.America is such an immature and volatile continent? Forget the Falklands for a minute. Just take a quick peek at all the various countries "down there". I agree that "Argentina" as such is relatively recent, but that was really only a sort of consolidation exercise: the place has existed for a long time. There has always been a strong European element there, and I believe there is also a part of the population that speaks Welsh (of all things). For some reason Argentina was the preffered haven of choice for fleeing members of the Nazi party. Why? Also, in common with Uruguay, Chile and Brasil (or with a "z" if you prefer) they seem to produce more classical musicians and singers, so there is obviously a strong cultural background. Whatever faults they may have had the Vestey family did have a big influence in Argentina. In the early 1960s the shipping companies "Royal Mail", "PSNC", "Shaw Saville", "Blue Star" and others were pretty vital to the Argentinian economy. No-one then seemed to give two hoots about the Falklands. Buenos Aires even had a Harrods that had an exhibition of (our) Crown Jewels..replicas, of course. They play cricket and rugby in Argentina.
Chile is apparently a friend of the UK, but not with their neighbours. Why? Peru seems to be a bit withdrawn from everybody. Mexico seems ungovernable. Brazil is huge, but largely empty and pretty corrupt in many areas. The whole place seems to me to be a great big melting pot that has yet (after many, many years) yet to cool down and take its rational place in the world. Perhaps "personal vanity" is at the root of their problems. If in trouble, then do a "Gordon" and blame somebody else. BY.

[Colin Bishop]

Latin temperament?

[Netleyned]

Let them win the World Cup all will be forgiven!

[The long Build]

And Polo..

Is  S.America  very much different to Europe Really, Because at the end of the day none of the European country's really like each other despite what anyone says...   Scotland and wales would split away if they could , We don't Trust the French , they don't like us , the French do not trust Germany etc etc, I know most of it is more the Governments as I'm sure that most of the Population could not care less.

IMHO
Larry

[Bartapuss]

A senior MP and a respected foreign policy think-tank claimed Washington's stance was 'payback' for the British courts ordering the disclosure of secret CIA files on Binyam Mohamed.

Two weeks ago, the U.S. said it was 'deeply disappointed' that Foreign Secretary David Miliband had been told by Court of Appeal judges to publish closely-guarded information about the former Guantanamo Bay prisoner. The papers detailed evidence showing MI5 knew that Mohamed, a British citizen, had been tortured by U.S. spies after he was detained in Pakistan in 2002. The Henry Jackson Society, a London-based foreign affairs think-tank, said Mr Obama's stance was linked to anger at the release of the secret files.

This week the White House has refused to endorse the UK's historic sovereignty over the islands and its right to explore for oil in its waters.

The Obama administration's decision to ignore the democratic rights of the Falkland islanders is disgraceful. 'It can only be motivated by moral weakness in the White House or a misplaced desire to punish Britain for the Binyam Mohamed case and the disclosure of U.S. intelligence documents.

'The decision, while feeble, is unsurprising. For the past year, Mr Obama has followed a foreign policy path that punishes allies and democracies while allowing rogue authoritarian nations like Iran and North Korea to pursue their objectives.'

The criticism was echoed by Tory MP Patrick Mercer, the chairman of the Commons' terrorism sub-committee. 'The U.S. position on the Falklands certainly seems to be a warning shot which says to Britain: "Don't mess us around too much or we could make life problematic",' he said.
Last week, it was revealed that a conference to mark 60 years of UK and American defence intelligence sharing had been cancelled after the Mohamed judgment. It was to have been held at the U.S. Embassy in London.

Relations between the UK and U.S. nosedived last summer over the decision by the Scottish authorities to release the Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Al Megrahi back to Libya.

The USA is fickle and self centered and always a price attached. That should be the end of any further support. When did we last see the "special relationship" in action to the benefit of the UK? Pull our troops out of Afghanistan immediately and leave Obama to it!

[tolnedra]

I believe I heard somewhere that Mohamed is a British resident not a British citizen.

[justboatonic]

Knifed in the back by the yanks yet again. Unbelievable when you consider the support we give these imperialists.

Argentina coup as Hillary Clinton calls for Falklands talks

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7047309.ece

It seems the obama administration just wants to keep on kicking us. Well, ok but dont be surprised when you find the UK aint too quick to support 'your boys' in action. There are more British troops in Afghanistan than all those other European friends of America put together!

[BarryM]

Results from drilling programme to date are described as "disappointing". The Gung Ho Let's Bomb everything That Moves Brigade may have to put the arquebus back in the attic?

Barry M

[Bryan Young]

Fair comment Barry, but one failure doesn't mean there isn't anything, does it? The North Sea took ages to get going...probably most of the sea-drilling site did, as well (no pun intended). But, again, simple geography / oceanography should be able to tell what bits of the ocean floor were once covered with vegetation. Deep oceans (I think) are more likely to be "newer" because of the diving down of the tectonic plates...so what was in there is totally lost. I don't think the drilling companies are going to give up just because of one setback....do you? BY.

[BarryM]

Bryan,

No I don't but I think you are reading too much into my comment and I have not suggested any such thing; just noted the first results of the programme to date.

Geology these days is a very sophisticated science and geophysicists are able to produce quite fascinating 3-D pictures of the subsurface topography in glorious technicolor. They can pinpoint porous, permeable and impermeable layers and possible reservoirs with some accuracy. What none of them have been able to do to date is to be able to put hand on heart and say "Here be oil" with total certainty. That can only be proved or disproved by actual drilling and it wouldn't be the first time that a an area of promising geology was drilled, declared 'dry' and capped. The North Sea and all other production areas have many such sites.

Desire Petroleum, whose shares fell 50% when the news broke, have a six-well programme and so will carry on drilling hoping that predictions are borne out by results. It's early days yet, we'll just have to wait and see.

Regards
Barry M

[Bryan Young]

Bryan,

No I don't but I think you are reading too much into my comment and I have not suggested any such thing; just noted the first results of the programme to date.

Geology these days is a very sophisticated science and geophysicists are able to produce quite fascinating 3-D pictures of the subsurface topography in glorious technicolor. They can pinpoint porous, permeable and impermeable layers and possible reservoirs with some accuracy. What none of them have been able to do to date is to be able to put hand on heart and say "Here be oil" with total certainty. That can only be proved or disproved by actual drilling and it wouldn't be the first time that a an area of promising geology was drilled, declared 'dry' and capped. The North Sea and all other production areas have many such sites.

Desire Petroleum, whose shares fell 50% when the news broke, have a six-well programme and so will carry on drilling hoping that predictions are borne out by results. It's early days yet, we'll just have to wait and see.

Regards
Barry M

Barry, would I ever read too much into your comments! Never! Apart from the 90% or so that I do...otherwise all postings would just be the old "flat statement....flat rebuttal" and nothing more heard. Bryan.