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Author Topic: Racundra  (Read 44166 times)

dreadnought72

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Racundra
« on: March 03, 2010, 11:11:04 PM »

My name's Andy and ... I'm a junky.   :embarrassed:

That is, I need regular, well-written and informative build logs for model saiiling boats. Preferably those with innumerable pictures and a good dollop of humour. But - as Tigertiger and Greggy1964 have recently shown me - your main dealers just let you down. You're halfway through an exicting rabbet or the tweaking of a garboard plank using little more than a kettle of boiling water and a stash of clothes pegs, and they just go offline for a few days, leaving you in need of an hourly check via laptop, copious amounts of tea, and a strange sense of indefinable loss. If they were selling you their stuff, they'd pop back with a simple 1000% mark-up in the price and you'd pay with thanks. But here it's free, no way to up the price, and there's nothing else to cure that itch.

Hmmm ... Nothing?

I'm sat here thinking how to calm my nerves - offset my cravings, you know? Hell, I gave up cigars last year. Saved enough in a couple of months to buy a Proxxon fret saw. Can I give up my fixations with others' boats this year? Can I maybe combine the fret saw and my need to see boats-being-built and save myself from withdrawl symptoms?

...'Course I can! I simply need a one-hundred-step programme to a cure!

Step one, find a boat you want to see built and simply draw up plans for it.

Ok. I want to build Racundra, a boat built for and owned by Arthur Ransome in the mid-twenties. Why? I'll explain that later. Let's get building...



The keel and one of the frames. The scissors are left-handed, normal sized fellas. The hulls's going to be 44" long and about a third that in beam. More on that later, too. The keel's a big 18mm wide collection of pine, that'll end up wider. This is one weird hull.



Racundra had a dinghy. I know nothing about this boat, other than she was 2.5 metres long, short enough to park on deck, and had ~12 planks per side. The JOYS of modelling without millimetre accurate plans to force you! "This'll do..."

More soon. I promise!

Andy

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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 09:58:41 AM »

Humble apologies Drednought72 :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

I will get back to my ship as soon as I am able :-))

I appreciate that I have left a few folks hanging and folks have probably entertained  :police: hunting me down :police: and  <*< beating me <*< to a greasy smudge <*<

I am considering allocating one day a week to boat building but as my kitchen table is my only work space I will be forced to set up and take down each time which will cut into my building time.

The situation at present is that I'm between work at the moment so up until recently I was able to spend every day at building and preparing photos/posts of my progress which consumes huge amounts of time but don't put bread on the table  sadly :((

I will try and get something set up but folks must appreciate, input will be painfully slow compared with before.

That said I've been building models from scratch for years and didn't know there were such beasts as forums and I was forced to work things out for myself when I was learning my skills.

Typing is easy so I can offer my ideas to anyone who asks. I can of course write articles but its much better from a newbie boat builder standpoint to follow a step by step build along as with my Master Hand project.

I am the type of bloke that will throw anyone a life belt if its within my power to do so as I firmly believe in Carma and I confess I get a lot of pleasure knowing others can benefit from my knowledge.

I am researching internet marketing with a view to developing my own income stream and if Providence shines on me there is nothing that would make me happier than to build models which I love doing and to post build alongs on the subject.  :-)) O0

Regards

Greggy1964

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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 11:07:33 AM »

By the way . . .  .. .

A simple way to build a clinker planked ships boat, or any planked hull is to get your mits on some of that blue or pink foam board used in building insulation.  :-))

The flying boys are doing cart wheels over this stuff as it make lovely light flying models, is easy to carve and sands well and is very tough. On their forums there is tons of advice on shaping and gluing this stuff.

Google 'foamies' for details.

Keep the hoover handy though because you end up with a pink halo that follows you around the house and the missus will take a slice out of your butt for your trouble! {-) {-) {-)

From a model boat builder standpoint it can be used to carve a half model set against the keel of the boat you intend to build.

Or the method can be used on complete hulls using the old and well tried bread and butter hull building method.

On our new foam half hull mould we can draw the run of  planks and then lay cardboard plank shapes over this (always salvage the cereal boxes before your kids consign them to the bin, as this stuff is great for plank templates!)

The foam takes pins beautifully and of course the resulting plank shapes are patterns for both sides of the hull.

Take some 1mm aircraft ply and a sharp pair of scissors in hand and chop out two sets of each plank. Chop up the foam half mold where you want frames to land and you have perfect half mold patterns at each point for each frame.

Lob all cut out plywood plank shapes together with your original wooden keel (as in the normal procedure for plank on frame models) on a little building board and chuck it all together.

Lob in a few ribs, thwarts and other required internal paraphernalia and hey presto!

A brand new ships dinghy!

Of course things are a little bit more involved (these are, errr more guidelines than your actual rules) (now where have I heard that before? Something to do with pirates?) than indicated here but you get the basic idea I hope  :-))

But with practice you end up with things like this



and this



and this



and also



This model is 15 3/4 inches stem to stern but you scale things up or down as required, the principles are the same.

It takes a little blood sweat and tears and a good dollop of swearing to get models of this sort exactly how you want them, but anything worth doing is exchangeable for a little pain of one form or another! :-)) O0 {-)

But once learned this method is like falling of a bike (I think!) you never forget how to do it! O0 {-) :-))
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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 11:32:13 AM »

P.S.

Dig registered! :-))

 O0

 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

Oh and a cold shower is a good cure for those . . . . . .

  :o cravings  :o. . . .

of any kind!

 O0


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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 01:13:21 PM »

very nice , I would like to try that, looks great.

Peter
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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 12:35:35 PM »

 :-)) Lovely clinker work there, Greg. That looks like a better method - and finish - than mine would ever have.

(Fade up sound of wood hitting metal as my balsa/ply dinghy goes into the chiminea ... )

So how's the build going? Thanks for asking! Not bad at all. Here's the state of it a few days ago:

Frames assembled on the keel. From the sharp end:



...to the other sharp end:



Since these pictures were taken, the hull has been bonded to the building board, wrong way up. I've used glue and currently have no idea how I'll remove the hull from the board. But that's something to worry about later on. A chainsaw is the current favorite plan.

I've drilled and fitted the prop shaft. (The original vessel had a woeful "hot bulb" engine which Ransome rarely got to work. I'll be using an electric motor in this model which I'll rarely want to work. %) )

And I've been making planks! The plan is for 4mm thick, 8mm wide pine planks over the hull. Cutting these planks from bigger timber is a bit of a pain, but the strength of the final hull will be immense. Well, at least judging from the fractured clamps that result from bending 'em to fit...

More next time! Including "how to break the biggest rule of hull making."

There, that's got you hooked!

Andy
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andrewh

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 12:59:13 PM »

Andy,

Not content with straight planks in near-infinite quantities now you are going for bent, tapered, spiled and overlapped ones!
Thanks for the build - clear and inspiring - hope you plan to use wee copper rivets and rooves

Can't wait to hear
 "More next time! Including "how to break the biggest rule of hull making.""
Could that be the one about keeping the water out :}

Greggy - lovely boat/shell/clinker planking - that should serve to keep Andy inspired!  What is it for? 
I see a slot in the keel - is this for a drop keel, or daggerboard, or is it a money box? :}

Planking lies in my future, too - I have couple of styrene hulls which both need stiffening and "plankiness" (to happily steal TT's word).  Does anyone have a suggestion for glue to add say 1mm planks to a 36 inch styrene hull?
(I aim to lightly glass the inside and bond in a hefty keelson - that will sort stiffness in that direction)

andrew
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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 02:56:42 PM »

Andy,

It looks great! She has some nice lines.

I don't see a rabbet into which the guardboard plank sits along the keel but I've noticed the heel of the central frames would hold them away from the keel. Presumably there is meant to be shaped lead ballast hung below the keel which the guard board planks follow?

If you're having trouble bending planks I would rig up a steam box using an old wall paper steam stripper rigged up to a pipe of some sort or long wooden box into which your planks can be cooked.

If the outlet pipe from the steam stripper were fixed to the lower end of the steambox/tube set at say a 45 degree angle the planks would be cooked evenly.

Rig up a system in the box where the planks are spaced apart a little so the steam can circulate and set up a restricted opening at the top end of the steam box/pipe for the steam to escape. Make sure that pressure does not build up or you might end up shooting out a window or something with the steam box end cap!

After 10 to 20 mins cooking you'll have a bunch of floppy planks to pin to your frames while hot - hardly needing any clamping pressure at all. Use gloves cos I mean HOT!

After cooling and drying you will find the planks will hold their new shape easily which can the be shaped and glued with ease.

It takes quite a few days doing one set of planks at a time but its how the big boys in the real ship building world carry on.

Me thinks chainsaw a tad extreme - try a fresh new panel saw at the glue join with the frames and board. My own experiences with chain saws it the they eat wood and I cannot recommend them for delicate work as it could end in tears!

Hurry up with the next installment will you! {-)
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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 03:13:02 PM »

AndrewH,

The lines for the boat were taken from an old article in a Classic Boats magazine in an article by a chap called John Leather - he's a renown small boat historian. The model is of a 1920 design gunter rigged sailing dinghy.

The slot in the keel will take a folding dagger board in a case supported by a transverse thwart in the boat.

I built it about 15 years ago as an experiment in clinker planking with aircraft ply prior to building my sailing canoe model I call Swift featured on this forum somewhere

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19576.0

The system works really well.

I will do a build along post one day.

Promise! O0

 {-)
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andrewh

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 10:47:24 PM »

Greggy - I remember the article and have the copy. 
Can we PLEASE have the build log, and pictures and rigging (with pictures) and we do powerfully appreciate it if you post pictures, too

Andy - thread hijacking disclaimer - In my ignorance I had no idea what Racundra is/was  a few days ago so I had a wee keek around and found a plan/lines/sailplan in Woodenboat forum.  Wouldn't want to post it if it stole your next bombshell /revelation/ thunder.  I will hold fire unless you cry either "fiat" or "impostatur" or "go for it, poser"

I also found for anyone interested that the text of some of the books is available free on the web.  I have not pursued that any further and don't know if they are copyright-free or what the deal is.

andrew
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tigertiger

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 02:17:13 AM »

Hi Dreadnaught.
A great looking start. Glad you have found a good way of getting your fix.

Sorry for not posting. Life has taken over again at the moment and I am sorry I have not been building. New schedules to work around and even those are not fixed. I have also added a couple of evening activities.

A thought about hull removal.
If you have not fixed your skeleton onto the baseboard yet it is easy to modify the bulkheads, cut them a bit so that the bulkhead only has two legs. These can be cut with a pad saw when it is time to remove the hull. (see fig.)

If you have attached but you have only screwed the bulkheads in place, whip them out and you can cut before reattaching.

If you have already glued it. Maybe you can separate the finished hull from the base if you can find someone with a big bandsaw. I worked in a plastics factory once that had a bandsaw with a horizontal blade that rode on wheels over a flatbed. The bed was about 2.5m wide. But a big vertical bandsaw would do it if you clamp it too some sort of jig to hold her square upright to the table.

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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 03:26:21 PM »

It looks great! She has some nice lines.

She's a bit too beamy to my racing eyes! But Ransome wanted a big cabin, with a writing desk. And as he was paying, that's what he got! I'm hoping the wide beam will make for a great righting moment, but it might not track (follow a straight line) too well when heeled. We'll see.

Quote
I don't see a rabbet into which the guardboard plank sits along the keel but I've noticed the heel of the central frames would hold them away from the keel. Presumably there is meant to be shaped lead ballast hung below the keel which the guard board planks follow?

No rabbet here, for I am a poor sinner, and while I'm in awe at your attention to detail and associated woodworking skills, for speed (and because I have ten left thumbs) I'm going to ask Mr Fibreglass-Resin to penetrate and secure my garboard plank edges.  :embarrassed:

You see, that keel is the keel. There's nothing else to hang under it (though I will add a fin) - there's a small centreboard on the original, but the fat wide keel was meant to allow the boat to take a grounding (not that there's much tidal action in the Baltic, where she was designed) and remain the right way up. I'm away from my books at the moment, but in the original boat, with a displacement of about 7 tonnes, that wide keel was 3 tonnes of steel. For my purposes, I'll be sitting strips of lead in the gap between wood keel and planks, all bonded in with resin. Should work ok.

Your plank bending adivce is good and almost appolicable here - what I'm finding is that at this size of plank, and with these curves, they'll go on "dry".

Just.

Which is ok.

To separate the frames from the building board, I'm confident ("60% confident, Chris. ...But can I phone a friend?"  %)) that a sharp tap with a chisel will pry 'em off one-by-one. Sending the planked hull into the maw of a bandsaw would require more guts than I think I have.  %%

Best wishes!

Andy

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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 03:42:10 PM »

Andy - thread hijacking disclaimer

Work away! All info is good!

Quote
In my ignorance I had no idea what Racundra is/was  a few days ago so I had a wee keek around and found a plan/lines/sailplan in Woodenboat forum.  Wouldn't want to post it if it stole your next bombshell /revelation/ thunder.  I will hold fire unless you cry either "fiat" or "impostatur" or "go for it, poser"

Feel free to post away! My scans of the same plans are bigger and much uglier. These plans, incidentally, are the ones originally published by the Cruising Association in the 20s to accompany articles on the First Cruise. Interestingly, I had a few moments trying to work out why some things were the size and spacing they are. Feet and inches didn't seem to make sense. Until I realised they're metric.

Quote
I also found for anyone interested that the text of some of the books is available free on the web.  I have not pursued that any further and don't know if they are copyright-free or what the deal is.

Racundra's First Cruise was published in the UK in 1923. It must be out of copyright, as it's available online, but there's a lovely version of it (with much additional info) still readily available. The Second Cruise the following year never really took off: it got affected by weather and by Ransome's work commitments. Which may well have included some spying on the side  :o. The Third Cruise existed as logs and short articles which were pulled together and only published a few years ago, in a similar version to the First Cruise. That's the book with the plans in.

Later, having sold the boat to Adlard Coles, Coles wrote about the trip bringing her to England, in his book Close Hauled. Racundra was contractually name-changed for this voyage and sported a bowsprit as Coles felt she was dreadfully under-canvassed.

More soon!

Andy
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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 08:10:07 PM »

Drednought,

I'm sure I don't speak only for myself but my ultimate aims are to get the things afloat.

I welcome innovative approaches to hull and structure building, the thing that floats my particular boat (scuse pun) are wooden scale replicas of wooden ships and I like where ever possible to use my *learned* skills.

I wasn't born with skills but they were hard won with slashed fingers on sharp scalpels and burning the long midnight oil as a kid and young adult - as an aside, Mum used to take the fuse out for the top floor  O0  of the house where my bedroom was situated to prevent me working after bed time! O0 {-)

My particular aim is to recreate life like models (the exterior parts of the hull at least) of wooden ships that I'm attracted to.

I'm constantly looking for short cuts to make life easier so I'm watching and learning!

AndrewH

When my ship comes in (scuse 2nd pun) I intend to do exactly that but I need to focus on generating the beans first! :-))

Long term plans are to finish Master Hand and I have the drawings of one of the last sailing trawlers afloat called Excelsior LT472, so if Master Hand's sailing adventure become a success (Hammer in his post No.27 on my  Master Hand thread has given me renewed hope with the photos posted therein of his excellent model) I intend to build Excelsior at an even bigger scale cos I just love huge sailing models!

Then I have plans to build a 1920's style speed boat that Ive already knocked up the lines plans for and stuck up somewhere here (though I can't for the life of me find where at the mo)

And then I plan to do a build log on clinker built models

Sorry for hijacking your thread Dreadnought  :embarrassed:

I'll shut up now :-)) O0

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andrewh

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 09:26:41 PM »

Andy,

Thank you for coming clean about your addiction - you have taken exactly the right step by "owning" your problem.  None of us judges you as we all have the same thing, and gather to talk it through :}

Removal from board - what kind of glue?  PVA, Ok, its thermoplastic so the hairdryer will soften it enough for your brute force and ig subtle method (shield other glued bits to avoid the dreaded multi-poiiiiing)


Lovely, distinctive lines - as you say the hull shape should require planks pretty symmmmmetrical fore and aft and with an even taper to a full middle

OK point taken about the scissors - another left-handed planking andy.  I have been give left-handed scissors, and find they are good, but I have had to learn to use them since I had become a proficient contortionist so as to see the point of cutting (schnittpunkt?) with the RH ones

andrew
kaggy fisted, lysdexic so if I can anyone can!
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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2010, 10:01:58 PM »

Now that AndrewH has put up drawings of Racundra, she reminds me of Sailing Canoe Yawls built by George F Holmes and Albert Strange in the 1920's of the Humber Canoe Club here in the Uk, any connection?
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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2010, 11:17:04 PM »

Right: the plans were drawn up by an Otto Eggers. About whom I know nothing, other than he "designed racing hulls at the turn of the century". That's the one before this one, obviously.

This hull is quite definitely not one of them.  %)

Greg, I appreciate applying trad techniques to modern building very much. That said, I'm not up to it and would take many wrong turns if I tried it, though I think I can produce a realistic hull form by <ahem> cheating.  O0

Andrew - I agree about the left-handed scissors. I've had to learn to use them myself, having spent 40 years bending my wrists through directions contortionists would dream of, in order to handle right-handed ones. Ah ... if only righties knew what we have to put up with.  >:-o

More photos tomorrow!

Regards,

Andy

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tigertiger

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2010, 12:45:48 AM »

Somebody mentioned a copyright issue of extracts from another website.

Simple cure, post a link to the other website and then we can all have a read. :-))
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andrewh

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2010, 12:42:59 PM »

TT

Good thinking - thats what I should have done, and will

andrew
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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2010, 05:55:47 PM »



Above, the hull firmly stuck to the building board, with the non-wind propulsion system next to it.



After a mere two hours' hard labour, here's the prop shaft in place. These frames, incidentally, are a scale 50cm apart - 62.5mm. I'll be looking to make a couple of one-eight-scale crew members to "sail" the beast once she's done. Can't have an empty boat pottering around the loch!



With the hull turned over, the first few planks seem to have bonded well to the frames (and to each other!). I love PVA. This internal surface may be sheathed with glass fibre tissue once done, to bond the lot together. The exterior finish will remain pine, as it's easy to smooth and work.



Close-up of the shoving-end of the power supply. A four bladed prop of 45mm diameter. There's a lot of carving to do on the keel here, obviously. Way too blunt at the moment. For the bulk of this carving, I'll be using an angle grinder with coarse sanding disk. It's a great carving tool - if you're careful!  :police:



The same planks again, now starting to conform to the curves of the hull next to the keel. And here's the golden rule broken - as I was eager to feel the form of the hull grow as it's planked, I've done all my planking work on one side so far. Not the "one plank per side" rule you read about. Everything's square and shipshape so far, but to avoid any risks by continuing this unorthodox approach, I'll be starting on the other side next, in order to catch up.

More later!

Andy
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andrewh

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2010, 12:49:02 PM »

Andy,

Our thanks, as always, for boldly going ahead of the plan and breaking the golden rule :} 
The planking looks smooooth and neat and a very nice wood.  (I must go and re-read to see if you said where it came from.

Being scottish (and careful) I salvage all useful wood  - well actually all wood as what I don't need for building sommat goes on the fire all winter!  I have an upright piano soundboard which is beautiful pine or similar which I will rip into planks when necessary.  The hardwood bits of the piano willl be keels and the like.  (Probably needs to season a bit, we believe the joanna was made around 1920 :})

Looking at your last pic you will be able to free the whole planked enchilada with a single tap of a chisel between the former support and the baseboard - fortunately dry PVA is quite strain-rate sensitive - speed makes it more brittle (moisture removes this effect, so funnily enuf wet boats made of PVA may be stronger than dry ones - for a given value of "stronger")
andrew
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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2010, 01:23:09 PM »

Hi Andrew!

The planking wood is from common tongue-and-groove planks. I have some left over after panelling the bath, and these planks have lived in the shed for a few weeks to settle down and stop warping.

It's 8mm thick, so it's on the thick end of what my Proxxon table saw can wade through, but if you take it easy & feed it slowly, getting a long length of suitable 4mm-by-8mm is no problem. Avoiding the odd knot is, admittedly, harder - but with a hull 44" long and enough frames to make scarfing shorter lengths a doddle, things are progressing well.

The other advantage of ripping my own planks is that I now have a sack of sawdust. This'll be handy later on for plugging the (urrmm) odd gap.  :-))

The "sharp tap with a chisel" idea is likely to work well. I used two small blobs of PVA when sticking each frame to its block. I suspect the application of well-focussed concussion will do the trick. We'll see!

Regards,

Andy
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Greggy1964

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2010, 02:50:47 PM »

PVA wood glue and fine sawdust makes excellent filler and when dry . . .  .

you cant see the seam! :-))
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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2010, 03:41:40 PM »

Do I hear a shout?

Ah! It's the assembled throng of the Mayhem forum: "It's been six months, you lazy b------. Surely you've got somewhere by now?"

 :embarrassed:

Well, yes, I have. I found the pine planking, which looked lovely (spot the past-tense here?) was taking ages to go on. Each plank took a pile of trimming, required a severe talking-to in order to fit neatly, and it was all a bit disheartening. This, recall, was on the easy bits of the hull: convincing this stuff to go around the complex bends of the keel in the future was frightening enough to keep me awake at night. So the Racundra entered the cupboard while my spiritual boat-building-batteries recharged.

With a fresh head, and an eye to finishing at least one boat before the grim reaper taps me on the shoulder, I took the plunge and <gulp> removed the planks that I'd laid. Stripped up some balsa sheet ("Heresy!" you all cry) and have set-to with renewed vigour, vim and vengeance. A layer of glassfibre tissue and filler will make good at the end.

So here I am, heading for mid-September, and roughly back to where I was in March: but I can at least state that the new planking is flying on. This D--- thing will be off the board by the end of the month.

Or I'll want to know why.  :-)
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dreadnought72

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Re: Racundra
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2010, 04:39:34 PM »

Mentally "planked out" for a day or two, I needed to focus on something else for a moment, and so I've started on the sails for the Racundra.

Racundra will carry three: a triangular foresail, and a gaff-rigged main and mizzen.

On Wednesday I bought the best cotton I could afford. To casual observers this fine fabric may have resembled a pair 200-threads-per-inch pillowcases from BHS at 4 a pop, but to me they're clearly boat sails, and - following an epic evening with the sewing machine and scissors yesterday they're now cut to shape, the stitching lines are in, and all but the mizzen is now hemmed.

They're a bit bright-white at the moment - and while I should, properly, get the bolt ropes and reefing/batten pockets on before dyeing, they're going into some Dylon tonight with spare cloth - after mulitiple tests on scraps first. I'm aiming for "canvas" and not "day-glo sunflower" sails on this thing.

 :o

What could go wrong? ...Photographs this weekend!

Andy
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