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Author Topic: Not stealth tax  (Read 3166 times)

BrianCartwright

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Not stealth tax
« on: April 02, 2010, 08:31:01 am »

Could one of our knowledgeable members please explain why a 900 road tax will stop people buying a gas guzzling car.
Personally it's each to his own I think.I don't care if someone buys a Churchill tank(providing he doesn't park it in my drive.)
There was a ministry of silly walks once according to John Cleese,maybe now we have a ministry of silly ideas.This new tax,apart from the obvious,comes a very close second to take a naughty hoody to a cash point for an on the spot fine.
I throw this open to the floor.

Yours exasperated

Brian
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2010, 09:02:17 am »

It might make you consider buying a car in the lower polution band that comes tax free...........................
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gondolier88

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 09:18:23 am »

Or buy a newer high performance car- the new BMW M6 (5.0l V10 producing 514bhp) for example has less CO2 emmissions than the last 2.0l ford sierra.

Which begs the question why doesn't it go on the age of the car?

The gas coming out of modern cars exhaust is usually cleaner and contains less particultes than the average city street!

Greg
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 09:38:19 am »

Could one of our knowledgeable members please explain why a 900 road tax will stop people buying a gas guzzling car.
Of course it won't.
Folk who think nothing of spending 60K+ for a 4WD shed-on-wheels or a 500BHP ego-prop will just regard this as something else to rant about over dinner with the Jones's. No-one needs a Range Rover Sport to ferry a four stone kid 1/4mile to school, and no-one needs to do 0-60 in 4.8 seconds when the speed limit is 70mph, but charging them plenty for the priviledge somehow is supposed to make the rest of us feel better. If there is a genuine concern about the pollution caused by these monstrous devices then why not just ban them altogether?
It's the politics of envy, and it doesn't work.
FLJ
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Shipmate60

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 09:40:32 am »

It isnt to do with stopping people buying a gas guzzler.
If you can happily pay 50,000 for a car do you really think that the cost of road tax will stop you.
It will become a status symbol.
It is just another so called "Green Tax" con to purely raise revenue.

Bob
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Dueller

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 10:46:55 am »

It's not really about emmissions. it's just about collecting money. if they wanted to tax heavy users they should put the car tax on the price of petrol, after all a gas guzzler that only does the school run will emit less emmissions than a salloon rep mobile that does 30,000 miles a year. it's vehicle usage that produces pollution. The government figures are based on factory figures and not real life use.
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gondolier88

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2010, 12:12:34 pm »

It's not really about emmissions. it's just about collecting money. if they wanted to tax heavy users they should put the car tax on the price of petrol, after all a gas guzzler that only does the school run will emit less emmissions than a salloon rep mobile that does 30,000 miles a year. it's vehicle usage that produces pollution. The government figures are based on factory figures and not real life use.

I think perhaps you might want to check the efficiency cycles of engine types before you make an entirely sweeping comment like this-

A huge 4litre V8 diesel in a Landrover will produce more CO2 in the 5 miles to and from school- an average of 6 stops on the way, parking, manouvering etc, and will not get upto working temperature until around 4 miles into the journey- or 80% of the journey time.

On the other hand- a 2.0l 4 cylinder diesel in a 'rep-mobile' as you call it may drive many more miles- but for every mile it drives it is at working temperature, in 6th gear, not stopping and starting, and when it does stop it has 'stop-start' technology, cutting the engine when idling and will not be at working temperature for 4 miles of it's journey- which on a 200mile journey would be 8% of it's total journey time.

Add up the inneficient miles that each car makes per year and compare them and see what you come up with.

Greg
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Netleyned

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2010, 01:45:48 pm »

Put a 4 mile exclusion zone around schools for Chelsea Tractors
Then 'mummy' will have to drive a 'you and I car' and sales will
plummet
90% have never been off road or up to optimum operating
temperature and an estate car has more room for boats

Ned
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2010, 01:51:08 pm »


Which begs the question why doesn't it go on the age of the car?


Greg
That's 'cos it's a tax on new cars.
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Netleyned

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2010, 01:58:29 pm »

It's all about recovering the spend on the scrappage scheme

Ned
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2010, 05:00:42 pm »

I can never understand why people pick on 4X4s there are plenty of other cars with worse emission figures
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elvis

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2010, 05:25:18 pm »

hi all
problem i have is a corsa or little car will get stuck in the fields pulling my hay trailers about.
nice big discovery works very well but daft rd tax.
my solution chevy blazer 6.2 ltr v8 185 a year rd tax and cheap insurance.
will pull a house out of a field if needed.
all the best
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 05:41:02 pm »

It's all about recovering the spend on the scrappage scheme

Ned

that was a fantastic scheme put in a car that had a very low co and get out a gas guzzler that has nearly twice the Co than the car that went in.

why ban 4x4 s  it seems to because they haven't got one, have you seen how all these green types travel on buses that are one of the bigest polluters on the road

Peter
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davidm1945

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2010, 06:04:21 pm »


 If there is a genuine concern about the pollution caused by these monstrous devices then why not just ban them altogether?


'Cos it would be "Bye-bye Landrover, Bye-bye Jaguar and Bye-bye Aston Martin" - I can hear the howls of anguish already!

Dave
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Dueller

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2010, 08:58:39 pm »

Not a problem for the Volkswagen Veyron they only plan to make about 300 as they lose about 2,000,000 euro's on each one they sell.

Which puts out the most CO2 a Veyron parked in a collectors garage or a Ford Mondeo @ 30,000 miles per year.

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Shipmate60

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2010, 09:06:55 pm »

The Veyron as it costs a fortune to have full climate and humidity control in a 20 car garage 24/7.

Bob
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2010, 10:04:37 pm »

that was a fantastic scheme put in a car that had a very low co and get out a gas guzzler that has nearly twice the Co than the car that went in.
Peter
It was fantastic for me I put in gas guzzler and got a low CO2
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Jimmy James

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2010, 11:25:34 pm »

I bought a Golf + 2 years ago, at my age my thinking was to buy a car that would carry my boats and would last me out. it's 1.9L TDI and should easily last 10 or 12 years which will put me well into my 80's, but the way these clown's in office are running up the tax's I might not be able to afford to run the car in 3 or 4 years time and unless I win the lottery I won't be able to afford a new one so what do I do walk and Carry my boats in a rugsack or maby build a trailer and Bike 8 miles to the Lake along 3 very busy roads and up one of the highest hills in N Norfolk .... I'm not alone, a lot of senior citizens are in the same boat, but need a car to get around because public transport can't meet the demand in the area Before you ask yes I have a bus pass but thats no good if the bus dosen't go where you want to go.
Freebooter >:-o >>:-( <*<
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sheerline

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2010, 06:20:09 pm »

My 4 litre 1951 Austin in the pic is a greedy cow, it is very inneficient by modern standards and will consume twice as much fuel as any 'gas guzzling' 4wd modern vehicle. God alone knows what the Co emissions are, no-one has measured it so all in all it's a 4 wheeled planet destroyer according to the 'green wellies' and twisted politicians! BUT.... it only does 1000 miles a year if it's lucky!
So, as someone said, it's all down to usage. Yes, Mrs Rich will drive her kids 4 miles to school in the wagon, then she might go to the supermarket or nip round for tea and buns with her friend round the corner but when it finally comes up for sale, invariably the mileage on these machines is a lot lower than that of the average family car. I would be interested to see an annual average total pollution figure for these vehicles and stack it up against that of a stanard use family car.
As it is, Mrs rich is already paying handsomely for the privelage of using that vehicle as it's using more fuel up per mile.
The fairest way of dealing with all the different classes of vhicles on the road is to add additional tax to the fuel price and scrap the road tax disk but for a myriad of reasons, there is no way they are doing this.
Mrs Rich probably votes conservative anyway so Mr Labour really doesn't care if he rips more from their wallet as he isn't getting her vote anyway, plus it really looks good for the election as it appeals to the green wellies and appeases the the tree huggers... better chance of those much needed votes!
One last thing, that 'gas guzzler can carry 5+ people .. and luggage.. it might get 20-30mpg depending on the engine. A modern high powered motorcycle will only carry two people, virtually no luggage and from what I've been told, will get about the same fuel economy (I stand to be corrected of course) so tell me, which is the biggest gas guzzler?
 We are subject to the politics of 'do as I say, not as I do'..........ruddy politicians... scourge of the planet! >>:-(

 
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2010, 07:54:57 am »

My old ducati 916... 25mpg if I was lucky.  1 seat and no luggage... maybe a rucksack
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Jimmy James

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2010, 02:01:34 pm »

I'm Sure a Legal 4 yearly cull to include all Polly-Trix-Icanswould soon get rid of the Deadwood,  Nest Featherers, Incompetent's, Dishonest and Crooked members of the Whitehall Club and of the Local councils and get this Country back on it's feet so we can all be again be proud to say We are British!
  ALL IN FAVOUR ---Raise your right hand, Palm toward yourself with the 2nd & 3rd Digits extended :-)) :} :} %%
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BrianCartwright

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2010, 03:35:42 pm »

I knew someone would come up with the answer. I'm with you 100% freebooter.In my estimate it would come to about 2.5 million people and I would love to be the person to say .Will the last person leaving please turn off the light It would go a bit dark and some power stations would  shut down but what a saving. :-))
We wopul;dn't have to worry who will run the country,Brussels will take care of that
God save model boat mayhem chit chat.

Yours very relieved

Brian
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gondolier88

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2010, 03:49:34 pm »

 :-)) Sorted!
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Guy Bagley

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2010, 05:45:43 pm »

my wifes car is classed as a Band G car, considered to be a big polluting car, its a 7 seater people carrier, and we opted for one of the smaller engined petrol varieties ( yes we should have gone diesel ... i know that now) but we only do 5 to 6000 miles a year in it- i need a 7 seater to move people and to tow with.... end of story, we get 20 -30 mpg is we go careful !

so they hike the cost of the road tax as a result of its emissions,  but its cheaper than buying two cars to move 7 people around and  what i find enfuriating is the chap in the rep mobiles doing 30,000 miles a year may be paying the same road tax fee as little old mrs bloggs who does her run to the supermarket once a week......and picks up her pension from the post office....

as has been stated before put the tax on fuel and scrap the road fund licence, the more you drive ( and damage the roads and supposedly kill the planet) the more you pay for the priveledge- thats the fairest way....

 its fairer for all

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tobyker

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Re: Not stealth tax
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2010, 07:09:09 pm »

It may be fairer, but the rule is never to scrap any tax - better to have two to put up in the budget - car tax and fuel tax (and VAT on fuel!) - rather than just one.
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