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Author Topic: Matt, Gloss or Satin  (Read 3790 times)

Nick

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Matt, Gloss or Satin
« on: April 30, 2010, 09:34:35 PM »

Hi Chaps

Please excuse my ignorance as I am new to model Tugs. Could any of you chaps tell me what finish I should use when painting certain parts of a Steam Tug.
Should the black paint  of the hull be in Matt, Gloss or Satin finish?
And what paint finish should the Funnel be in Matt, Gloss or Satin?

The two boats that I'm referring too are the Rosegarth and the Imara steam Tugs

many thanks in advance   
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 10:19:23 PM »

Nick, as with so much in model boating it is really up to individual taste and is driven by such things as whether you are after as true to scale finish as possible or whether you have your own preferences.

For me I want as scale a finish as possible so for a working vessel such as a tug the real ship would be painted with gloss paint.  However weathering and scale differences dictate the fact that a satin finish would look far more appropriate.  I actually mix my own satin paint by blending gloss and matt enamel then I paint it on with a small flatt brush.  This gives a more realistic textured finish which I can also vary slightly by increasing either the matt or gloss content as I go along.  I would do the funnel in exactly the same way as the hull as almost certainly in reality they would be painted with the same paint.
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sinjon

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2010, 07:07:49 AM »

Bunkerbarge

Do you know if it feasible to over spray a gloss finish with either satin or matt varnish ?

Colin
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Colin

derekwarner

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 07:43:11 AM »

Well Colin...I understand that this question was addressed to Bunkerbarge  >>:-( ....but to answer your question from experience in OZ

Yes...it is OK over spray a gloss finish with either satin or matt varnish.....providing you use say #1200 wet & dry [+ water] to gently, but totally remove every trace of the gloss surface

The sanding process is a relatively easy task & the results are totally self evident...so you can visually see that you have a good keyed surface for your alternate satin spray ..... :-)) ...good luck.......Derek
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Derek Warner

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sinjon

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2010, 07:53:24 AM »

Thanks Derek,

i am trying to get an obscure paint mix, ( RAL9010/RAL7001/RAL9001 - Schnellboot weiss) but it looks like it will only come in gloss.
Will give it a try.

Colin
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Colin

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2010, 08:17:07 AM »

there should not be a problem if you have a paint code go to an auto paint specialist and they will mix it in cans ready to spray, I did this for my last fire boat, they can mix matting agent in for you , they cost me about 5 a can and they also did touch up pots.

Peter
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 08:29:10 AM »

The plastic modelling lads regularly spray matt and gloss clear coats over all sorts of paint finishes for the purposes of fitting decals, and don't rub down between them, however for an operational model you need a more robust finish which isn't going to chip off.

Spraying any form of clear coat over a gloss finish will work fine as long, as Derek quite rightly states, you rub the surface down first with a fine wet and dry to provide a key for the clear coat.

Be warned though, some use polyeurethane varnish, which is great as a surface finish but does tend to yellow with age so I wouldn't use it over a light colour.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 05:02:19 PM »

It's is the polyurethane external varnish which has a yellowish tint due to the UV resistant filters they put in it. A good quality interior polyurethane such as Ronseal or Blackfriars should be fine unless you leave your model in the sun all year round. Otherwise, as Bunkerbarge says, use a specialist modelling varnish. The so called 'Quick Dry' types you can buy in DiY shops are water based. They can look OK at first but in my experience they can absorb water if immersed for any length of time and can go milky although this tends to disappear once fully dried out again. They also seem to form a 'skin' on the underlying finish rather than bond to it and if the skin is broken due to impact damage the varnish can start to peel off.

Colin
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Nick

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2010, 09:18:39 PM »

Hello Chaps

Thank you for all the advice, it's really helpfull. My idea would be to have as close as possible to real scale. I agree with Bunkerbarge, although the gloss would be correct, I think all the model tugs I've seen in Satin or even Matt look far more realistic.
One other question I have is: Do you all spray your boats or would it look far more realistic if it was painted well in a Satin or even a Matt finish?

By the way, the weathering and paint work on Bunkerbarge's Tugs look fantastic.

Thanks again
Nick
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triumphjon

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 07:14:19 PM »

very interesting , surely most ships were painted in gloss finish from new or after refit ! why does everybody insist on making a model look unloved and tatty ? i mean how many of us would go out and spend thousands on a new car  to never clean it but to use it to destruction ? ?   
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 07:27:02 PM »

Yes, full size ships are of course painted in gloss. But like everything else, when building a model you need to scale things down and scaling down gloss=satin! If you put gloss on a model it becomes too reflective and appears 'toy like' and unrealistic. The idea is to make the model, when viewed from a normal distance, to look as close as possible to the real thing. This doesn't entail making it look tacky, weathering is another issue altogether.

Colin
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Nick

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 09:11:17 PM »

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Colin. I couldn't agree with you more. When a model tug is painted all shiny and new it looks more like a toy and my idea of a model tug is to make it look like the real thing.

Thanks for all your advice again
Nick
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 10:55:51 PM »

very interesting , surely most ships were painted in gloss finish from new or after refit ! why does everybody insist on making a model look unloved and tatty ? i mean how many of us would go out and spend thousands on a new car  to never clean it but to use it to destruction ? ?   

I agree and having worked on and around ships all my life I can confirm that the paint used is always gloss.  However as Colin rightly states to generate a realistic 'scale' finish gloss would simply not look right and satin is usually the best option.  I think of it like looking at a ship from an aircraft, can you tell that the vessel is painted with gloss paint?  Of course not so we are simply trying to recreate that realistic look.  It's not a case of making a model look unloved and tatty, it's a case of making it look as true to life as possible.  There again if you are making a model of a vessel that may well have been unloved and tatty I think it looks just as inappropriate to make a model of it with a perfectly finished gloss paint job.  A classic example of this is the recreation of paint finishes of large scale vessels pre 1950's or so.  Before then spray equipment would be very rarely found on a merchant vessel so I can't see why modellers insist on trying to recreate a perfect finish with an airbrush or spray tin.  Paint would be applied with a brush around the edges and rollers for the large surfaces so this is best recreated with small flat brushes worked in random directions with a paint that will actually show the texture.

As always it's each to thier own and there will always be a difference of opinions regarding model finishes.
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Tankerman

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Re: Matt, Gloss or Satin
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 04:08:34 PM »

very interesting , surely most ships were painted in gloss finish from new or after refit ! why does everybody insist on making a model look unloved and tatty ? i mean how many of us would go out and spend thousands on a new car  to never clean it but to use it to destruction ? ?   

If your car left a dry-dock in the Tyne in a snow storm in the middle of winter, headed into a near hurricane around the top of Scotland, got blasted by a sand storm blown off the Sahara as you passed down the African coast, rounded the Cape of Good Hope into tropical storms in the Indian Ocean and about thirty days later made it to the Persian Gulf where the sun is hot enough to blister paintwork just how much shine will that car have left on it?

Chris
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