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Author Topic: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?  (Read 3209 times)

poddy

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mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« on: May 03, 2010, 07:48:45 PM »

Hi All

I wanted a better response to the helm of my boat.
 My Spektrum 5 has elevon/aileron mixing but I like to have the throttle on the left stick. So I invested  5 on a 1:1 mixer and y-lead.
At no or low throttle settings it is great I can turn the boat on the spot if I need to. However, predictably, the greater the throttle setting, the less effect the mixer has. My question is this. Does anyone have a simple method (apart from my thumb) of cutting the throttle input when the rudder is operated? or any other method for better helm response at large throttle settings?

Does that make any sense to anyone?

regards, Pete
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stallspeed

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 10:07:01 PM »

Left and right motor kill-switches operated by rudder,but disable the motor by switching a signal wire.
That is different from cutting motor current by brute force.
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poddy

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2010, 06:56:06 PM »

Thanks for that Stallspeed.

That's a simple, straightforward and most of all, inexpensive way of doing it. That should help me to stop hitting the banks!

Two normally on micro switches on either side of the rudder servo arm, wired in series between the receiver throttle output and mixer input. That'll cut the throttle part of the signal but leave the rudder input to the motors intact.

Marvellous. Thanks again Pete
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stallspeed

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2010, 07:06:30 PM »

It was just an idea.I don't know that it will work all controllers.
You would need to test how quickly they shut down.
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poddy

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2010, 07:19:59 PM »

Hi Stallspeed.

It's worth trying. all up, it's less than 5.
If it doesn't work  I'll just have some extra bits in stock!
 Cheers Pete.
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John W E

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 08:14:03 PM »

hi there Poddy

It may be adviseable to treat with great care cutting into the signal wire of the speed controllers, and incorporating a switch.  This is because 90% of modern-day speed controllers include a built in re-set - in other words - when you first switch on your radio gear, the first thing the speed controller does is look for the neutral which is being transmitted by your transmitter and set the throttle position for neutral at this place.  So, in other words, if you are travelling along at full bore with all 4 motors going, and you shut down via signal one set of speed controllers, leaving the other set operating at full bore - when you come to switch the speed controllers back on, they will naturally take this position of your throttle stick as neutral.   Disaster can happen!

I have used this above method several times before switching signals off and on to speed controllers; but it was the very old speed controllers - the one which used the ZN409 chip in them, and not the new modern-day pic chips.

If you have a look at the 63 whaleback build on this forum; you will see I incorporated the outer-wing motors to be switched on and off.   The way I got around this was that I had an old Electronize speed controller x 2 which both had the old chip in them.  I suppose you could do away with your Y tail mixer and go for an ACTion P40 which does do the job properly and slows the outboard props down and reverses them properly - and correct movement of the rudder or if your pocket is a bit deeper - go for the P94s or speak to Dave of ACTion.

aye
john e
bluebird

hope this is of some help.  :-))
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poddy

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2010, 09:13:59 PM »

Hi Bluebird.

Thank you very much for your input (no pun intended).I would prefer a wholly electronic solution to my problem I'm pretty sure the p94 would answer my needs. I think it is because the boat is so long, just stopping one set of motors is not enough at speed (the mixer already does this) I really need to get them to reverse with gusto. I think that the P94 would fit the bill admirably but at the moment, As I'm pretty sure, whichever party wins the election, the government of the day will continue with its best efforts to keep me taxed into poverty.  <:( I mean I can't afford it right now.

Your point is very well taken and yes, my speed controllers do reset when the signal is interupted. My intention is to break  the signal path  between the Rx throttle output and mixer. leaving the rudder input intact and hopefully keeping the speed controllers powered and still with the signal from the rudder running through the mixer. You are quite right, I could be heading for problems, I will need to test it thoroughly before putting it in the water. I've priced it at less than 5, I can afford to speculate that much lol.

By the way, I've read the 63' whaleback build before. Hats off to you, I would be content if I had just 10% of your model making skills.

Thanks again, Pete
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 07:36:48 AM »

Remember this?
http://media.photobucket.com/video/prinz+eugen/shipmate600/Picture031.flv?o=
Still makes my eyes water, that!

At the risk of doing myself out of a P94 sale, we stock some very small 10A microswitches. Depending on the motor current, you could use these to cut the power to the motors, as opposed to chopping the ESC signal (which, as Bloobs says, isn't a good idea).

Failing that you could avail yourself of the ACTion Interest-Free, Eezee Payment Plan - 50% deposit and the balance payable over the next ten minutes..............  8)
(or use a credit card?).

Oyveh - where there's life there's a profit margin, already......................

FLJ
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Peterm

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 09:31:20 AM »

Dave, you must have had a good holiday, you`ve got your sense of humour back again.  Pete
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poddy

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 03:37:27 PM »

Thanks for your suggestion FLJ. I may well be purchasing one of your P94's yet.

The Eugen video is quite similar to what I get now.  :embarrassed:

Cutting the supply to one of the motors is not enough given any speed (the mixer stops one side now). I really need some "suck" to bring her round. I've figured out how to do it without cutting any wires or anything. I'm not overly fond of the present speed controllers anyway. They are little blue boxes with something like "orgasmatron" written on the side. It has to be said that they work fine, but they pulse the drive train creating quite a loud "knocking" noise. So if they do go up in a cloud of acrid smoke I'll be pretty philosophical about it.

I did suggest widening the canal where we sail from the present 15 yards up to about a mile. Thus not only curing my turning problems but also  creating a true English channel experience for us with 1/24 scale boats. Sadly this proved to be a nonstarter when it was discovered that the handle on the club spade is currently broken.  :((

The other option is to sail on the local river which is about a mile wide. Though I'm not sure how long this activity would last as the current is pretty damned strong, not to mention it has the world's second highest tidal range. On reflection, this might be my cheapest option for solving the problem.

I'll give it a go. If it works, I'll post a Eugenesque video. If not, I'll go quiet for a while, then buy one of your units, hoping, you'll have forgotten all about my clumsy amateur antics.

Pete
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Shipmate60

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 04:22:04 PM »

Pete,
Had Dave kept this model the plan was to fit a P94 mixer with the port and stbd motors connected together, as now.
The only alternative is to reposition or increase the rudders.
As your canal is so restricted I would recommend the mixer.
The Prinz Eugen is mine and I only used a mixer as I had 3 motors to control.
But after using a mixer on her and another model I was converted.
You can set up the P94 to reverse the inner prop.
The Prinz Eugen video does show this.
Or if unconvinced you could try a mixer unit from ACTion and if it suits you then go for the P94.

Bob
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poddy

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 07:26:34 PM »

Hi All

What a marvellous and helpful forum this is!

It occurs to me that I should make it clear that there is no real turning deficiency in this example of Mr Dean's finest. In fact it turns far better than my Danny boy, but of course it goes 3 or 4 times quicker.

The need arises more from my general clumsiness and narrowish water to sail on.

Thanks for your comments Bob, I can see this inexorably leading to me sooner or later, purchasing a product from Action. They have obviously been there and done that, so to speak.

Thanks too Subculture. That's an interesting site and not just for mixers.

Pete
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John W E

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 07:34:50 PM »

hi ya Pete

I know this may be closing the door after the horse has bolted, so to speak.  But, I wonder have you ever thought of 'tank steering' no need for the mixer.  jUST throttle on left hand and right hand stick, takes a bit of getting used too - but, its an alternative - until you can get the P94 - or even a P40 and keep your own speed controllers.
You could do away with your Y tail mixer.   I have tank steering on a paddle tug a while ago and I used to have a dedicated transmitter for it, only problem was, when I came to use another model - when I was pushing the right hand stick up - I wondered why the model would turn  %% %% .  Brian C uses this system on his 1:96 scale Nelson dont you Brian and that turns on its own length.   Just as an afterthought, the RTTL has a P94 fitted and turning that model at speed, believe me is very hairy.  I have nearly turned that model over once or twice.

Good luck
aye
john
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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2010, 08:17:21 PM »

 Just as an afterthought, the RTTL has a P94 fitted and turning that model at speed, believe me is very hairy.  I have nearly turned that model over once or twice.

Good luck
aye
john
Thats because you are not used to putting your models in water John. You need more practice. {-)
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poddy

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Re: mixer/throttle does anyone know how to....?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2010, 08:40:22 PM »

Hi John

I think that is how Dave (the previous owner), had it set up.  To be honest, it sounds a bit busy for me. the spektrum has this oh so useful click ratchet on the left stick, the stick stays where you put it. This leaves one with a free hand for sipping G&T's on hot summer afternoons for example.

I am beginning to realise I could well be wandering into "Fools blindly go where brave men fear to tread" territory. I'm trying to balance that knowledge against the almost uncontrollable urge to tinker.

Yes, rolling it is a concern, assuming I get that far. I don't think it goes quite that fast, however, I'm not an expert on the subject.....yet. Also I'm not quite sure just how deep the canal is. I
 should ask someone that question.

Thanks, Pete


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