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Author Topic: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907  (Read 9087 times)

dreadnought

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Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« on: October 04, 2008, 08:56:12 PM »

Hi all,

I am building a 1/96 model of HMS Dreadnought.  The build is on a Deans Marine hull that I obtained along with the turrets but the rest is scratch.  I am progressing favourably and have reached the point where I am detailing the boat deck.  My question is if the  Admirals shelter just aft the forward funnel was constructed of wood or metal in 1907  (as built).  I have the book by John Roberts anatomy of the ship Dreadnought and the drawings on page 195 and 196 show wood,  The drawing on page197 is of the ship in 1915 and it looks like metal.  In Mar. 1909 the shelter was enlarged and converted to a sea cabin, This is possibly when the structure was changed.  If as I think the cabin was wood in 1907, was the cabin roof metal or wood and was it covered with non skid corticene which is brown, or grey painted metal?.   
      My next question is concerning the signal halyards.  The flag lockers were situated aft of the 32 foot cutter stowed midships and the halyards hung from the formast.  They would have to cross over the stowed cutter to terminate at the lockers.  This is in 1907 and I guess it would work but not very practical.

   Thanks in advance
   dreadnought
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Eric65

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »

Hi Dreadnought, not sure if this is any use to you, but this is a close-up of the bridge area of the builders model of HMS Colossus at the Clyde Museum.

Any use?

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dreadnought

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 09:26:34 PM »

Hi Eric

Thanks for the pic of Colossus this is a good indicator that pehaps the roof of the Admirals shelter was corticene and the flag halyards were not necessarily terminated at on near the base of the mast they were hung from.

Thanks Dreadnought
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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 02:39:00 PM »

Hi Dreadnought!

(You're hopefully not called Andy, too?)  ::)

You're clearly well ahead of me with regards to the stage you're at during the build of this ship, and I've not given a vast amount of attention to the details of the superstructure as yet - so the following may be taken with a pinch of salt.

What I can tell from the online photos of the Dreadnought is that jpg artifacts just about rule out seeing anything of the flag halyards, but there's the odd hint that (like the Colossus) the halyards did not need to be vertical, and that they ought end up somewhere sensible: that would suggest an area very near the flag lockers (and you'll know these were moved over time). Probably the best bet would be to find an original photo of the ship that you can use a magnifying glass on - or check on the as-built plans in the NMM.

There are certainly a number of holes in the AotS book - notably "what's happening" between turrets X and Y. I know the basic facts for this area, but the building at the bottom of the main mast, the chequered decking and intake hatches just aft of X are not as well described as they could have been. That's nit-picking, though...the book is fantastic, otherwise.

As to the roof of the Admiral's cabin, my build is the post-1915 refit, so I've got to build the larger sea-cabin which was presumably metal. The earlier wooden structure always strikes me as a shed stuck on at the last minute. Probably somewhere for the Admiral to make his model boats.  ;D That said, I'd go for the corticene option - especially if the roof has stanchions around it, or it could be used as a surface for going upwards.

One more point on the AotS book - the deck planking shown for the tops goes in a different direction to that portrayed in one of the photos. I don't know if this is a post-refit thing, but it's a point that I think Deans may have got wrong.

Do you have any photos to inspire us slow-plodders along?

Regards,

Andy
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dreadnought

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 10:21:00 PM »

Hi Andy
Thank you for the information, I tend to agree with you the halyards will have to terminate in a reasonable place even if they are not were  they are the most available to the communication people. 
I have not as yet looked into whats happening between X and Y Turret. I am building from fore to aft and am still working on superstructure.  I have a set of plans from Loyalhanna Dockyard in 1/16 in. to the foot that show es this area to a little better advantage,  If you wish I could photo copy the plan and send it to you.  As as for the ridged checkered area I use Plastruct #91681 tread plate for this.
   You are right about the planking on the compass platform, in the drawings of 1907 and 1915 this area is shown to have planking running athwart ships and the photo shows it going fore and aft in 1909 Another problem with the book is on page 215 they say the brailing davits are 3/32 in. to the foot. Take a look and see what you think.

I do not have photos as yet but will sent some as early as I can.

Regards,

Dan (dreadnought)
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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2008, 09:38:25 AM »

Hi Dan,

I would love a photocopy, or a scan, whichever's easiest. PM on its way.

Regarding the earlier 1907 Admiral's Wooden Sauna Shelter - I looked last night and there are a pair of ladders leading up from the roof to the foremast struts - which says "corticene" to me, though, I suppose, being next to the funnel it might suggest a black-painted upper surface. Personal choice, then?

The AotS book has several examples of wrongly-labelled scales in its first edition (I don't have the second): you'll have no doubt bumped into a few of these already! All are correctable when looking at other diagrams, but they're a bit of a minefield for the unwary. I've made a couple of photocopying/scaling errors myself - I spent five minutes looking at 1/36th scale anchors thinking "no way!"

Thanks for the heads-up on the deck plating - I'll check it out and see if there's anything suitable for me.

Regards,

Andy #1963
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dreadnought

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2008, 09:59:16 PM »

Hi Andy

Photo copies on there way along with a few other goodies you may be interested in.

I sent some copies of the same area off the plan I have from Portsmouth Dockyard and

a piece of Plastic tread material along with some netting I found to be good for anti torpedo net

when rolled up and stowed.  I dont know if you have come to the torpedo netting yet but I found I

I had to consider it very early on in the build .


reguards

Dan   (dreadnought)
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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2008, 08:53:29 AM »

Many thanks, Dan - looking forward to it.

As I'm still working on the hull - specifically deck-planking - I'm nowhere near painting the torpedo nets' shelves yet. But I note that the diameter of the rings used in the netting is tiny, so a netting material would appear to be the best sort of stuff for this.

Best wishes,

Andy
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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2008, 09:18:25 AM »

THANK YOU!

Dan sent me (and I didn't realise he was in Canada - it only arrived yesterday) a packet of plansl answering all the issues I had with regards to the happenings between the Dreadnought's X and Y turret, that aren't made clear in the AoTS book.

Along with this were a scrap of plastic ribbed deck plating, which looks perfect, and a piece of anti-torpedo netting of a kind I'd considered already, and which will do the job perfectly.

It's heartening and wonderful to see 2000+ people, all with an interest in such a marginal pastime (with regards to the overall numbers) pulling together and helping others out.

Many thanks, Dan! May your build proceed smoothly!

Andy, somewhat gobsmacked.  :-))
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dreadnought

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 02:43:16 AM »

Hi Andy,

Glad to see that you received your package in the mail OK

If you are  unable to find the plastic rib plate or the netting material over there I have some extra of

each left over.  A friend who works at a fabric store aquired the netting for me and she gave me

enough for 100 ships,  what I like about it is the colour, I think it is just about right for anti torpedo

netting considering what that would have looked like with cold, rain saltwater etc.

     I have an extra sheet  7" X  11"  tread material you could have to if you need it.   For free

Happy trails,

Dan.

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oldiron

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 03:21:40 AM »

I'm posting some pics of "dreadnought's" Dreadnought that I took today. These postings are at Dan's request.  He can fill in the required verbage to describe the pics.
John
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oldiron

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 03:24:47 AM »

More of the same:
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oldiron

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 03:27:11 AM »

and more pics.......
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oldiron

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 03:30:46 AM »

.......and once more........
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 08:59:55 AM »

Stunning pictures of a stunning model.  The detail is amazing and the boats are simply superb.
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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2008, 09:28:35 AM »

 %% :D O0 %% :-)) :o ;)

Holy moly!

That's 1/96th? ... hmmm ... I see the bar is raised!  :}

Dan, is this to be an R/C model, or is it going straight into a museum?  :-))

Terrific stuff!

Andy #1963#
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Bowwave

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 01:00:29 PM »

What a stunning model  :-))
Bowwave
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TCC

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2008, 04:45:38 PM »

wouldn't the signal halyards be 'on the bridge' and near the flag lockers (like the other poster said) Lions end up on several of the bridge platforms and they aren't striaght up & down, they are angled.

Love the detail... wish I'd built bigger now.

Picket Boat: are all picket boats steered like that? [a rope from the wheel to eother side of the tiller?]

I thought LION was the nearest thing to a floating gun platform with just guns, funnels and a bridge. I see that the DREADNOUGHT has even less superstructure.
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Edward Pinniger

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 04:59:16 PM »

Beautiful work!  :-)) Definitely a standard of finish + detail to aspire to (I scratchbuild 1/96 static models of predreadnought-era ships, though not to anything like this standard!) - this really is a museum-quality model.
The ship's boats are particularly impressive - each one looks to have had as much attention + time spent on it as some complete models!
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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 09:05:20 AM »

I'm still gasping in awe at your boats!

Would you mind telling me what you used for the fine gratings in the bottom of the launch and cutters? I'm stuck!

Regards,

Andy NA553568B
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dreadnought

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 05:08:59 PM »

Hi Andy

The gratingI used for the Admirals walk was from Special Shapes  a product of K&S Engineering

it is in photoetched brass.  They have many other sizes ,  the one I used was 1/32 Sq fine

St0ck #2701 SSM-60  it looked about right for 1/96 grating. www.specialshapes.com

The grating in the boats is from Plano Products 2701 W. 15th st.  Suite 113  Plano Texas 75075

www.planomodelproducts.com   This comes in a strip about 8" long by 2" wide and is made for

HO railroad roof walk material it is also  photoetched product.  The strip I have is #202 Apex

Slotted pattern.

If you have a problem finding any of these let me know and I will try to find some for you.


Dan  (dreadnought)

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dreadnought72

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2009, 10:06:31 AM »

Many thanks for the materials' information!

Andy NA553568B
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oldiron

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2010, 09:28:27 PM »

  I don't know if any of you chaps saw dreadnought's Dreadnought finished.

Here it is. Beautiful.

John
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John R Haynes

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2010, 04:49:37 PM »

Regarding anti-torpedo nets , the best material I have found is dressmakers Tuile that can be found in different colours however I had to spray the finished " roll " with dark grey paint
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DARLEK1

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Re: Admirals shelter on HMS Dreadnought 1907
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2010, 08:05:32 PM »

I used ladies stockings :D on my 1/96th one.
 Paul... :-)
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