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Author Topic: Credit Surcharge  (Read 3629 times)

DickyD

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Credit Surcharge
« on: May 10, 2010, 05:33:06 PM »

I have just bought some items off Deans Marine.

The service was very good, ordered Friday and received today.

As you know Deans are not the cheapest but their motors and props etc are excellent quality.

So far so good, I spent approximately £80.00, fine.

Then on my bill is an item £2.39 credit surcharge.

Whats this all about, I have never had this item on an invoice from any of the many other suppliers I deal with ?

Why a surcharge when I am buying mail order ? How else am I supposed to pay over the phone ?  >>:-( >>:-(
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 05:38:39 PM »

Richard, there is a statement on the Deans site stating that there will be a surcharge for certain types of payment. Presumably they are trying to recover some of what many retailers consider to be the excessive transaction fees charged by the credit card companies. This is becoming very common now, particularly in the travel industry. Use a credit card and there is a surcharge, use a debit card and there probably won't be but you get no protection on orders over £100. Some retailers absorb the cost or it is reflected in higher prices, others show it as an extra which you could argue is being transparent as long as it is spelled out when you buy.

No doubt FLJ can give us a bit of chapter and verse on that.

Colin
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Shipmate60

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 05:41:10 PM »

Dicky,
You could just "pop" up there.
And you called me a cheapskate!!!!

Bob
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Mankster

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 05:43:23 PM »

That will be the 3% paypal fee for paying via Paypal I suspect.

DickyD

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 06:09:19 PM »

I paid by credit card and to my way of thinking they should cover this in their prices, or I could be like Bob and be a cheapskate and go elsewhere.

I dont pay a surcharge on MFA/COMO drills motors from Cornwall Model Boats and they are nearly as good and a lot cheaper.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 06:39:17 PM »

There are differing views on this Richard. If some methods of payment are more expensive than others, which they are, then should the purchaser foot the extra or should the costs be spread across all customers. Tricky point isn't it?

Colin
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dbninja

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 08:38:53 PM »

mmmmm!

ever tried buying tickets to the theatre without being rammed with hidden charges...

you can only buy them online/over the phone

flight booking is going the same way... >>:-(



db
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cos918

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 10:14:23 PM »

Thank you Dicky
I was not aware some retailers are doing this.

John
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Robert Davies

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 10:56:10 PM »


Dicky,

I have to completely agree with you.

If you paid by cheque, Dean's bank would charge them for the pleasure of banking it, ditto if you paid by good old folding stuff, then there are the hidden costs of banking, actually going to the bank, the cost of fuel to do so, the time that it takes to do so whilst not doing other more productive things - there is also the security aspect of handling sizeable chunks of cash, be it five pounds or five hundred pounds, there *will* be someone willing to hit you over the head for it - Trust me I know...

Why penalise the customer when it could easily be absorbed into the general costs of doing business (rent, rates etc etc) and distributed across the product price range.

People who charge me to do business with them rarely see any business from me, and ditto those who make it difficult to do business with.

How much business will Dean's lose because of their surcharge policy? More than their surcharges?

-Rob


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Colin Bishop

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 11:22:40 PM »

Rob,

Having spoken to traders at various times I know that some of them are being hammered by the costs of offering credit card options compared with traditional payment methods. It's not just the transaction fee but also the cost of 'hiring' the processing equipment which can be a substantial amount.

Such costs are not 'easily absorbed' even by larger organisations. For smaller traders they make substantial inroads into profits. My local independent travel agent has had to impose modest credit card surcharges otherwise they wouldn't be able to stay in business.

The real blame lays with the big financial organisations who are continuing to shaft their customers, business and private, left right and centre to maintain their excessive profits. I think it's a bit unfair to blame traders like Deans and others in the circumstances.

Colin
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 11:31:52 PM »


You are not alone.  >:-o
It is also happening here in Oz. >>:-(
Bottom line it will only continue whilst buyers pay up.  <*<
You, the consumer are in control go elsewhere or pay the "extras"  <:(
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 11:37:23 PM »

When you go to shows, there are some traders who will only accept cash to avoid the credit card company charges. It's the only way to keep their prices down.

Colin
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 12:54:11 AM »

Because I have only used Paypal in long distance transaction, I used to charge a fee to cover the costs.
But nipping the customer for that extra $1 to $3 dollars felt wierd, so I just attributed it to cost of business.
It is a deductable cost...

However, today I billed a customer, and he added $5 to his payment.
He knew that paying through Paypal charged fees to me, so he added it on his own accord.

 :-))
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poddy

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 07:45:11 AM »

I too had a slightly peeving experience with Deans.

Ordered their catalogue, paid extra for 1st class delivery (cause I wanted it bad) and agreed to pay 3% more for using paypal. I waited and I waited some more. About 10 days later it arrived.

They sent it 2nd class and charged me 3.5% for using paypal. The catalogue is not printed on particularly good paper and contains several discrepancies and mistakes.

I guess it was a cheap way to get an insight into the level of professionalism of a company that I was, and am, thinking of buying from.

Cornwall on the other hand has been a very good experience. Emails to say items are being dispatched and quick delivery.

I did happen to notice that Cornwall sells Graupner E600's for about the same price as a Dean's kestrel.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 10:54:51 AM »

We couldn't survive as a mail-order business without the facility to accept credit and debit cards. This facility costs us around £30/month plus the transaction fees. We absorb both of these costs into our general business expenses and - of course - we allow for them when pricing the items which we sell.

At the moment we are charged just shy of 2% for credit card transactions, while debit cards are a flat-rate fee per transaction (about 22p) so we prefer them for higher value sales.

PayPal is much more expensive but, for a "normal" sale e.g. <£100, we also absorb that charge. However, when you start talking about a £300+ order via PayPal (who actually do little else except "launder" the customer's card number) then that cost becomes significant. 20p plus 3.4% of £300 = £10.40. In such circumstances we try to encourage the customer to use the credit card direct with us instead of paying a third party. In all events the mode of payment is down to the customer and all we feel we should do is point out the choices and any additional costs involved in them (check out the comments on our Homepage about bank transfers).

What we don't do is ambush a customer with a finance charge which he isn't expecting. Any trader who does that runs the risk of losing the trust of his customers and so losing their business - just see the comments above.

"When you go to shows, there are some traders who will only accept cash to avoid the credit card company charges. It's the only way to keep their prices down." I can hear your tongue stuck in your cheek, Admiral!!

Caveat emptor, dudes.  8)

FLJ
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Robert Davies

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2010, 11:17:13 AM »


Thanks Dave (sincerely) for that informed posting - ie a view from the other side of the counter. On seeing a reply from a trader, I was half expecting a 'Times is hard and you're all a bunch of ingrates' response.

Times *are* hard, and for anyone that sticks an 'ambush' charge on any of my bills they are going to get harder.

-Rob

ps. To Dicky, where you informed about the credit charge whilst your order was taken on the 'phone? If not, a call to your credit card company may be in order - unauthorised charge - perhaps?
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DickyD

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2010, 11:47:38 AM »

Thanks Dave (sincerely) for that informed posting - ie a view from the other side of the counter. On seeing a reply from a trader, I was half expecting a 'Times is hard and you're all a bunch of ingrates' response.

Times *are* hard, and for anyone that sticks an 'ambush' charge on any of my bills they are going to get harder.

-Rob

ps. To Dicky, where you informed about the credit charge whilst your order was taken on the 'phone? If not, a call to your credit card company may be in order - unauthorised charge - perhaps?
No I wasn't informed on the phone and I did not see it on their web site, because I did not use their web site. >>:-(

I buy all my boat stuff on the internet and phone as I cant get out very easily and this has never occurred with anyone else.
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Marks Model Bits

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2010, 11:56:29 AM »

We are very much in the same camp as Dave (FLJ). We absorb the costs of such payments in our normal business expenses and we couldn't operate effectively without the facility to take electronic payments, but at the end of the day it is down to the customer how they want to pay and I would rather take Paypal (with its higher charges) than lose a sale and possibly a repeat customer as well!!!!


Mark (MMB)
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Marks Model Bits

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 12:03:08 PM »

We also don't profit from shipping charges!!!!!


Mark.
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The long Build

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2010, 12:48:12 PM »

No I wasn't informed on the phone and I did not see it on their web site, because I did not use their web site. >>:-(

They are supposed to inform you that that there will be a surchage for using a credit card , its at this point when you can decide if you wish to proceed with the transaction..
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2010, 12:57:17 PM »

Yes, I quite agree you should be told before confirming the transaction - I haven't bought from Deans over the net - but when I have booked ferry tickets or made a hotel booking there is usually a warning and an addition to the total before you press the 'submit' button. Of course not everybody adds it on as a separate amount but it is certainly common enough for me to look out for it when making online purchases. Being deaf I don't use the phone so can't comment on that.

Yes FLJ, bad choice of words there! What I meant was that some traders at shows don't take electronic payment citing credit card charges but I agree there could be other reasons too...

Colin
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2010, 03:17:47 PM »

From a customer point of view, I prefer to use credit cards, because of the charging flexibility and the consumer protection they provide. The latter is less of an issue when dealing with Action Electronics, but useful in other transactions!

Debit cards and cash require me to organise bank transfers or cash withdrawals, which mean I can't buy when I want to. Paypal is ok for ebay, and quicker than a credit card, but if anything goes wrong Paypal look after themselves before either the seller or the buyer, and are impossible to contact.....

Making an extra charge depending on payment type is a big no-no in my book, and I don't buy from places that do so. For a seller, the price advertised is the major basis of the agreement with the buyer, and re-negotiating that leaves a very bad taste.

There is a balance to be struck, of course. If I insisted on paying with a money order written on the side of a cow in Milton Keynes I can see that a seller would be put to some unreasonable expense to cash it. But the job of a buyer is to consider all the reasonable running costs of a business and reflect them in his prices.   

Having said that, of course, there is equally no such thing as 'absorbing' the cost of a particularly difficult sale. Sellers do not have a cushion of extra money somewhere that they can use for this purpose. ALL the money they work with is provided by the buyers. When they say this, they are just noting that, on this sale, they will make less than average profit - maybe even a loss. And if they do this too often, they won't be in business. It's a bit like politicians offering a 'free' public service, paid out of taxes. Of course it isn't free - it just means that we are all paying...
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2010, 04:17:43 PM »

You don't fly Ryanair then DG?  ok2
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Dean's Marine

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2010, 05:14:07 PM »


What we don't do is ambush a customer with a finance charge which he isn't expecting. Any trader who does that runs the risk of losing the trust of his customers and so losing their business - just see the comments above.

  AMBUSH CUSTOMERS, ???   it looks like you did not bother to check your facts as well. ??
DIRECT COPY FROM THE FIRST PAGE OF OUR PRICE LIST AND OUR WEBSITE
 and you DO get told on the phone if you order and wish to pay with a credit card + it will be on the quote and the invoice, how plain can we make it.
  it is being honest and up front, the customers who pays with a bank transfer, debit card, electronic transfer, cash and cheques do NOT like  have "hidden" charges in the price to subsidise the customers who use credit cards.
  Order online, then change you mind, and phone the order in and say its a debit card, and its a credit card, then complain to try to get the charges back will not work either, if this cause any problems, phone it with a DEBIT card and we will refund all the not hidden charge to you.
 Its is being honest with the customers.
   Deans Marine
   
 
 
these Price lists are subject to change at any time! there will be a surcharge for certain payment types!

click on the relevant link to open the PDF price list

Please visit our Online Shop for all information and up to date Price’s
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DickyD

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Re: Credit Surcharge
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2010, 05:44:00 PM »

I did not look at the price list or the web site.

I phoned and said what kit I was building and asked them to send the appropriate parts.

I was told they came to approximately £75.00 plus postage which I agreed to.

At no time was a surcharge mentioned.

OK, the surcharge wasn't much, it was the principle that got to me.

That apart the parts and service were excellent.
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