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Author Topic: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.  (Read 8603 times)

vintagent

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Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« on: May 19, 2010, 10:33:02 am »

Has anyone on here built a typical late 1800s plank on edge racer for scale sailing?

I would like to build a model of my old boat, Vanity, and was wondering if they sail well.
She was built to the then C-class by Dan Hatcher in 1886.  2 years later they changed the rules and the days of the plank on edge were over.

I think she'd make a fine sight on the water with her very lofty gaff rig.

Regards,
Vintagent
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tobyker

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 12:57:48 am »

I have a boat built to the 1730 rule. POETRY, (Plank-On-Edge Try) is 24" long by 4" beam, draws about 10" and carries 11 lbs of internal ballast. Cutter rig with flying jib and gaff topsail. Rudder ony so far but part way through a rebuild to incorporate sail control. Could post a photo if I resize one. I think she sails quite well but there is not a convex curve in her - the sides of the hull taper gently down from the deck to a flat bottom (she will stand upright on her bottom at the pond side with no stand) and the flat counter slots into the sides. Russell Potts used to let me sail with the vintage chaps, many years ago.
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tigertiger

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 01:34:07 am »

I have never seen POE or POETRY.
Sounds interesting.
Any pics???? :D
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 10:15:09 am »

Tobyker, I don't know if you're pulling my leg or not there!
If so, touche...if not, I'm intrigued.
Why would your model have no convex curves?  Draws 10"?  11 lbs. ballast??

No, I think you're 'avin' a larff!

Picture please!

Regards,
Vintagent
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tobyker

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 08:38:27 pm »

Maybe I meant concave.... hollows anyway. Will take photos, resize and post later.
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tobyker

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2010, 12:01:34 am »

here are photos of POETRY, 2.5 tonner to the 1730 rule, 26.5" lwl, 4.375" beam. Built mainly from an old ply wardrobe. One day I hope to build POESY (POE Schooner Yacht) on the same lines - or absence thereof!
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kiwi

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2010, 02:03:39 am »

Hi,
I like that. Is whats in the thread all there is to the rules?
I'd like to build one from scratch, so any more info would be appreciated
cheers
kiwi
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2010, 09:57:49 am »

tobyker, I take it all back, you ain't pulling my leg!

I like it! At least I like what I see above the water!

Questions, what's the 1730 rule?
Why such a deep body extra to what a POE would be anyway?
What's the box atop the deck midships aft?

I could see these being a class like footies.

Regards,
Vintagent
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tigertiger

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2010, 10:04:49 am »

Very interesting design rule.
Also gets around issues of drop keels.  :-))
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tobyker

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2010, 11:34:00 am »

There's a very good article about yacht racing rules on the Vintage model yacht site - just google "1730 rule". The rating of the hull equals (LWL+Beam)squared, times Beam, divided by 1730. (feet for full size, inches for models) From which you will see that beam is penalised relative to length, so boats like Foxhound were 40ft lwl and under 6 ft beam. All that would keep them upright was a ton of lead downstairs, and there were no restrictions at all on hull depth or rig. In the context of the rig, remember Dixon Kemp's words - "I do not consider that a craft, of which the boom does not extend considerably past the taffrail, is a sightly craft."

That isn't a box aft - its a bit of wood taped over the rudderhead to keep the water out. This boat has never really been finished, but I've got a sail servo for her now and maybe sometime I'll get around to her.
Why such a deep body? Simplicity of construction. Half inch plank oval for base, ditto but hollowed out for deck "framing", wrap some ply round the and BYU. There is no internal framing whatsoever.
Drop keels - yes they did drop off occasionally, there not being much scope for athwartship triangulation within the hull. The boat then floated for a short while on its side. Of course, because of the max beam (excluding chainplates)  rule there was not much scope for flare and reserve bouyancy, so they tended to go straight through waves rather than rising to them. This was all very well so long as you'd remembered to batten down all hatches companionways etc. I think the mortality rate of yachtsmen had a great deal to do with the change to the LSA rule.

Yes I think the class should be revived - I do accept that POETRY is a rather extreme design (happening?) but she fits the spirit of the rule.
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meyer

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2010, 12:18:13 pm »

Sound like a great idea
maybe if we got some plans and start a mayhem plank on edge group
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2010, 12:50:30 pm »

My old boat was a C-class cutter.  She was 64 ft. loa x 9ft beam x 11'-6" draught!
She made a big hole in the Burnham mud from which she always "unstuck" in an irregular manner. I was used to it, but you should have seen the faces of visitors!
I'm using the lines of Clara as being the nearest thing I can find to her proportions. I found them in Traditions and Memories of American yachting which has a lot of drawings of English yachts.
No doubt the depth will always be a problem for model sailing, but I just love the look of her! 
Plumb stem, counter stern, VERY lofty rig!

Regards,
Vintagent
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tobyker

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2010, 07:23:26 pm »

no plans, meyer - just design her yourself to the rule. We just need to pick a couple of tonnage classes - 2.5 tonners for cutters about the size of POETRY, 5 or 10 tonners for schooners. Or whatever. But remember, some venues like the Largs pond are only about a foot deep! Check your local water before designing.
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meatbomber

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2010, 10:48:20 pm »

Love the POETRY ! really interesting design, should be realy easy to emulate too for the less planking talented modelers like me :D
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Jimmy James

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2010, 11:20:03 pm »

Don't know if this is what you want ... She's a very old boat (1930's Pond yacht Hull that I was given as a wreck) she's bread and butter built with the lower part of the keel made from strip lead
 Shes a very good sailer the deep hull makes up for the narrow beam








Jimmy
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Jimmy James

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2010, 11:25:32 pm »

As You can see she's only small



Jimmy
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2010, 07:53:56 am »

That's the kind of thing, Jimmy, although she seems a little mild in the plank-on-edge world.  Some of them were very extreme, but that made them great sailers in a stiff breeze.

A nice little model.  I wish people would give me pond yachts to do up!

Anyone building new P-O-E yachts?

Regards,
Vintagent
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Jimmy James

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2010, 09:01:20 pm »

Vintagent
I Had great fun building (rebuilding)her it was a nice but plane little hull but the glue had perrished and the two iron screws that held the planks togeather had just about rusted away.and she fell to bits shortly after I got her home   She got rerigged as a Naval Cutter and carried a square topsail at one time and was great fun to sail (27 Meg 2 chan) But sad to say she hasn't been in the water 5 or 6 years  {:-{
Jimmy
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2010, 09:52:27 am »

Jimmy, difficult to be,ieve that it's just a handful of us that are interested in P-O-E cutters.  They're so elegant.

Here's my old girl in earlier days when she sailed all over the place with a professional crew.

Regards,
Vintagent
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2010, 10:01:50 am »

As you can see, her rig would be considerably taller than her LOA, but would look superb under sail.
Methinks I should get her a-building. I think it will have to be 1/24th scale due to the problem of carrying her about.  I have a Reliant Fox van which has a generous height for a small vehicle, so that would just get in, rigged.

Regards,
Vintagent
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dave301bounty

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2010, 09:08:50 pm »

Hi,There is a chap ,retired now who was a profesional yacht builder .He makes these modes ,also sailes them at times ,now I never knew the term used ,for this build ,just shows you ,this chap is a clever fella ,last week he finnished a model he found the Drawings in an old readers digest ,and the wood he got out of a skip we saw on our travels .Marvelous this site inni,
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2010, 10:47:12 am »

All you need is a little confidence and ingenuity and you're away.

I can appreciate both ends of the game.  The skip guy or the gas turbine powered K7 spookilly going on Coniston having spent thousands to build it.

Regards, Vintagent
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Jimmy James

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2010, 04:52:12 pm »

Vintagent,
 I used to be part owner of an ex-Cornish Pilchard Driver,  She was built in Porth Lieven in 1890  30ft LWL  47ft LOA 9ft beam 8ft 6" draught  Dammaged in 1942 she was re built as a yacht in Maldon after the war and re rigged as a gaff cutter (Built as a Lugger) ,Dammed good sea boat if a bit wet-ish and used to surprise a lot of the fast Tupper Ware cruisers when she came roaring past under full sail with a bow wave like a destroyer ... I think I might have a photo or two of her kicking around somewhere
If I find one I'll post it on
Jimmy
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vintagent

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2010, 05:46:06 pm »

Sounds lovely, Jimmy. Yes, please post pics.  Maldon was an old hunting ground of mine, too.
Regards,
Vintagent
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dave301bounty

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Re: Plank on Edge cutters, etc.
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2010, 06:21:01 pm »

Vintagent,
 I used to be part owner of an ex-Cornish Pilchard Driver,  She was built in Porth Lieven in 1890  30ft LWL  47ft LOA 9ft beam 8ft 6" draught  Dammaged in 1942 she was re built as a yacht in Maldon after the war and re rigged as a gaff cutter (Built as a Lugger) ,Dammed good sea boat if a bit wet-ish and used to surprise a lot of the fast Tupper Ware cruisers when she came roaring past under full sail with a bow wave like a destroyer ... I think I might have a photo or two of her kicking around somewhere
If I find one I'll post it on
Jimmy
also look forward to photos Jimmy .re ,Dave.
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