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Author Topic: Keyring penknives  (Read 6982 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Keyring penknives
« on: June 01, 2010, 02:21:14 PM »


What's the law regarding carrying pocket knives, in particular a small 40mm knife on a key ring?

   http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/Keyring-knife-lands-dad-in.4350899.jp
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Patrick Henry

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 02:30:38 PM »

Absolutely ridiculous...I have an ancient penknife which belonged to my father, it's in my lunch bag and I always carry it with me to work, always useful to have one, you never know when you need something cut...string, branches, it also gets used as a screwdriver, chisel, tin/bottle opener, all sorts of things.

The law has gone mad...
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Netleyned

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 02:32:37 PM »

Martin
Reading the whole article the knife is described by the police as a lock-knife
It is against the law to carry a knife which has the means to lock the blade
in an open position

Yours aye

Ned
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 02:45:46 PM »

"..What's the law regarding carrying pocket knives, in particular a small 40mm knife on a key ring?.."


In many places, particularly London, the concept of a fixed 'law' has been superceded by continuously renewed 'anti-terror' legislation.

Under this regime there is no longer a fixed rule which you have to obey. Instead, if a policeman claims that he feels 'suspicious' or 'threatened', or, indeed, just feels like it, you can be arrested and held in jail for up to 28 days with no charge or reason given.

People have been arrested under this legislation for 'being too tall', 'looking too confident', and 'walking on a cycle path', so worrying about the precise length of a knife blade would seem rather pointless. In most cases, though, you only get imprisoned for a few hours or a day....
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DickyD

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 02:49:37 PM »

It's an offence to carry any knife in public, even if you're not behaving in a threatening manner, and you can face a penalty of two year's imprisonment and a 5,000 fine for doing so.

Under certain circumstances, it's legal to be in possession of a knife in public:

    * If it's a tool of the trade (i.e. you work in catering or carpentry);
    * For religious reasons (i.e. a Sikh kirpan);
    * If it's a penknife (pocket or folding knife) less than three inches long (although it may be considered offensive if carried for the purpose of causing injury or harm).

 Information Officer ok2
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Guy Bagley

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 03:53:58 PM »

i have for years carried a micro leatherman on my car keys, its tiny, but useful, never had any trouble, i once forgot it was in my coat pocket on my bunch of keys and i got on a flight othe USA with it !- never got stopped even at an airport...
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 04:39:43 PM »

Me too Guy, I broke mine over the weekend but someone mentioned that pocket penknives were now illegal, so I wanted to check....
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sheerline

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 06:01:20 PM »

This is just a stupid waste of Police and the courts time,  it's about time common sense prevailed in this country. The laws are a mess and appear to be open to interpretation. A friendly piece of advice by the officer would have carried more weight with this apparently law abiding citizen, instead he is now rather embittered and will look on the police with a different pair of eyes. This sort of stupidity does no-one any good and simply wastes everyones time and costs money into the bargain.
 We know the police are having to work to a quota scheme so do I smell 'quotas' here?  :((
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 06:28:43 PM »

I have been known to carry one of these in the town centre  :}



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dodgy geezer

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 06:56:25 PM »

"...but someone mentioned that pocket penknives were now illegal, so I wanted to check..."

The last government created a new criminal offence for every day they were in power. For example, I understand it is now illegal to sell grey squirrels, impersonate a traffic warden, offer Air Traffic Control services without a license, or fail to nominate a neighbour to turn off your alarm while you are away from home...

Under these circumstances I do not think anyone can have a clear idea of the law without costly professional help. Amateur 'checking' will have very limited value. And, as I said earlier, if a policeman wishes to arrest you for any reason whatsoever you will be arrested, and if he decides that your knife was a danger there will be no point at all in claiming that it was legal....
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The Antipodean

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2010, 10:02:44 PM »

Good grief, I thought the lawmakers were idiots in America.
Here you are allowed to carry a knife as long as the blade is under 6 inches, switchblades are illegal though. I do happen to know of one knife salesman that travels to different flea markets and has certain verboten items under the counter, he will sell them to you if you meet his criteria, that being if you have the cash.
You can go to one of these flea markets and by yourself a shotgun or rifle, sometimes even a pistol. Not being a citizen here I am not allowed anything with a rifled barrel so I can have shotguns and black powder weapons.
Seems that while you lot may be getting loaded with a lot of ridiculous laws you are by far  the safer country as I would rather not see redneck Joe walking about with a firearm over his shoulder.

Ian
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sheerline

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 10:24:07 PM »

We have had so many laws passed by our last 'government' <*< that we lost track. We probably break some of them everyday because we don't even know they exist. As for being a safe country, life is cheap here, people are mugged, cut up, shot, stabbed, robbed and driven insane by some sections of the community but always it's the same, little or no punishment follows. No punishment I have heard of in recent years appears to fit the severity of the crime. The government we had massaged the figures for crime to make us all feel safer but just talk to folk who live in some inner city areas to get the real truth behind living in violent Britain.
I know I would never walk a city street alone at night in the UK.... in some areas, not even in the daytime!
It appears the punishments are certainly in place for the average working man though, the culture of money grabbing by the authorities means they are free and easy at handing down fines for almost anything. Should you commit some violent act, no prison sentence neccessarily ensues as they are trying to keep the prison population down, you either get off with it or pay some large fine.
I'm afraid the justice system here is a little too skewed toward the offender rather than the offended.

I would like to think the new government we now have may  begin to redress the balance but something tells me we may wait a long time for it.I think the EU bill of human rights may just get in the way.

It would be interesting to find out what really happens in the case of the bloke with the keyring knife.... bet he gets fined!
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tassie48

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2010, 10:37:15 PM »

Over here in Australia I got caught with my knife in a pouch on my belt by the cops when asked by the cops whats it I explained that i use it to cut my oranges for my lunch and they wailked away tassie48.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2010, 11:15:27 PM »

In Australia it's illegal to carry a knife of any sort but, in the case of a pen or pocket knife, as long as it was in your pocket, and you're not waving it around in a threatening manner, it's unlikely that you would be pulled up.

Tassie48 was carrying his on his belt where it could be seen, a common practice among many rural Australians. Anyway, as he said, it's to cut up oranges for your lunch  O0

Peter.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 07:14:11 AM »

If you just google on 'penknife law' you will find lots of cases which illustrate what I have been saying - that the police will apply sanctions to you if they find you in possession of what used to be a perfectly legal penknife. Here is a case from last month - http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=2917918

The classic case is the Brigadier who was hauled off his train when a scanner detected a small penknife in his luggage in 2006 - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article1087628.ece

Whether these things are legal according to DickyD seems to be irrelevant. If Martin carries one of these on his keyring I would recommend him to avoid coming to the attention of the police. In fact, I would recommend everyone to avoid going anywhere near a policeman, whether in possession of a penknife or not. Luckily, there are so few police seen on the streets nowadays that this is easier than it used to be....  
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2010, 07:41:50 AM »

Luckily, there are so few police seen on the streets nowadays that this is easier than it used to be.... 

Take a look on the side of your nearest dual carriageway, thats where they live now.... sat in a car with the ANPR system and speed cameras doing all the work.

This is one of the many reasons why I left the UK.

Finnish law is black and white... Blade longer than 5cm (2 Inches in old money) your nicked unless its part of traditional dress.  Finnish police are still respected by the public and the courts have a much more structured and severe punishment system.

You assualt a police officer in Finland and you WILL go to prison for a minimum of 5 years. With a weapon 15 years and killing a police officcer.... you wont be coming out except in a box

The police here take no crap from anyone... they tell you to do something you do it, no arguments or your in the back of the van.  Simple.
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 08:37:01 AM »

Don't forget that our "nice" new Con-Dem  government have said that if you don't like a law, just let them know and they'll repeal it :-))
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sheerline

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2010, 09:16:50 AM »

Hmmm Ftf, I'm not so sure about that, remember we're broke as a nation and if the law contained a heafty fine I suspect it will remain firmly in place. The government has a massive uphill struggle ahead to rake in as much dosh as possible and fines are a good source of it.

Looking at some of the cr*p our police have to put up with on the streets today, I reckon a bit of the 'Finnish' policing techniques would go a long way to making certain sections of the community a little less likely to run amok as they seem to do these days.

The problem is that those who carry knives offensively will continue to do so for their own reasons whilst 'normal' citizens are curtailed and hounded as  in the aforementioned post. The usual government 'blunt instrument' (no pun intended) application of the law has prevailed and unfortunately, officers on the ground have to apply it and they have lost a lot of respect because of it. 
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2010, 10:53:29 AM »

Well I'm just about 6 foot never been arrested for being too tall, nor has my 6 foot 7 mate.
I've carried a Swiss army knife for many years and never even been searched.


It would be interesting to know how many normal Mayhemers have been arrested for carrying a pen knife, or are these cases flights of fancy from the Daily Mail....

ps....According to QI if you only have one arm, it's Ok to take a flick knife, into the USA
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2010, 11:31:11 AM »

Well, all the cases I quoted can be referenced - here is the 'tall' one.... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/15/tall_photographers/

The point I am trying to make is that so long as you stay out of the way of the police you will be fine - draw their attention in any way, either by being out of the ordinary or just being there when they're feeling stroppy, and you will no longer find that the law protects you. Something (or maybe nothing) will be made up to justify arresting you, hauling you down to the station, fingerprinting, DNAing you then locking you up.

That is why i suggested that Martin stay clear of carrying a penknife on his keychain. All he needs is a bored store security guard to notice it, call the police support, and his whole day could be ruined.... 
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PMK

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2010, 12:19:54 PM »

For what it's worth,  to anyone who carries a pen/pocket knife, my advice would be to carry on doing so, and to hell (literally) with any jumped-up berk trying to tell you otherwise. To hell with the politically-correct brigade, to hell with bent officials and to hell should go any man who succumbs to these so-called 'safety laws'.
As much as I hate to admit it, I had a bit of a run-in with some gobby dude at San Francisco airport who tried to confiscate my two-inch pocket knife. The Yanks are notorious for their usual boistrous attitude, and that day was no exception. It was around the time of the 9/11 fiasco and security was even more piddling than usual. They let me into their country with the blade in my pocket, and there was no way I was leaving without it. Kicked up a right old fuss until they'd seen some good old-fashioned British sense. Back at Heathrow I had no trouble whatsoever.
You know it, I know it and just about every other man and his dog know it; the whole Big Brother scene is now just a total joke to most every level-headed Brit. We'd all end a right bunch of bum lickers if we were to jump to their every stupid command.

Martin, just continue carrying that blade in your pocket like you've been doing for Gawd knows how many years... and to damnation with any prat trying to bully you into giving up what is rightly your very own choice anyway.
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geoff p

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2010, 02:18:47 PM »

On a lighter note, living in Thailand we see the vagaries of policing on nearly a day-to-day basis.

A couple of years ago I was driving my motor-scooter with my pet poodle in the front basket - a very common scene over here - when "Peep".   :police:

I pulled over and the policeman, laughing his head off, explained "Your dog is not wearing a helmet".   %%  Any excuse to pull-over a foreigner, because we are usually an easy touch for a fine.

Unfortunately for me, the tax disc had expired and that cost me a fifteen-quid fine.  Fortunately, here they don't bother to record all your details as a criminal!  Just fine-and-forget.

Geoff
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2010, 02:42:51 PM »

"....my advice would be to carry on doing so, and to hell (literally) with any jumped-up berk trying to tell you otherwise. To hell with the politically-correct brigade, to hell with bent officials and to hell should go any man who succumbs to these so-called 'safety laws'..."

I strongly support and applaud these sentiments, but suggest that you do not try to put them into practice in the South-East, and particularly not in London....
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Netleyned

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2010, 03:14:52 PM »

https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q337.htm?letter=K

This is supposed to be the official stance
 :police: :police: :police: :police:

Ned
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artisan100

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Re: Keyring penknives
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2010, 06:24:12 PM »

I was going through the body scanner at St Pancras before getting on a Eurostar to Brussells in March and emptied my pockets on the plastic tray as requested. Amongst the fluff and small change was my Swiss army pen-knife. The guard walks over towards me and begins to look interested, and I only then remembered that I'd meant to leave it at home to avoid this very scenario. All I could think to do was to point to the luggage label on my nearby suitcase and say, 'But look, I'm going to Switzerland, and if I don't take this old one I'll be tempted to buy a bigger new one and bring that back instead.'
He paused, nodded, smiled and waved me through. :police:

Geoff
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