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Author Topic: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast  (Read 6769 times)

wideawake

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« on: June 14, 2010, 06:37:25 pm »

The last one in "On the water" is my Colin Archer.   I know it's mine not the other one as I see the pennant is flying at half mast.   I appear to have forgotten to tie off the flag halyard before launching.

Guy - the other one  :-)

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vintagent

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 07:03:20 pm »

Blimey!  (oops, sorry BB)... I say, chaps!  I guessed at that being a nice chunky Colin Archer and I got it right!

Original choice!

Regards,
Vintagent
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wideawake

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2010, 07:12:37 pm »

Blimey!  (oops, sorry BB)... I say, chaps!  I guessed at that being a nice chunky Colin Archer and I got it right!

Original choice!

Regards,
Vintagent


Yes it's the Billings 414, some 4 feet long.   It sails well with about 11lb of internal lead ballast.

See pics
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Number 6

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2010, 07:17:04 pm »

Well thats me holding my DUKW and the photo has reminded me to start my diet again, thanks Martin  <*<

Russ
No more McDonalds breakfasts when sailing then?? %) %) I'd better start diet too! At least I wore my Hawaiian shirt{-) {-) {-) Dave,aka Number 6.
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vintagent

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2010, 07:18:43 pm »

Billings you say!??  Now I am surprised.  For a kit manufacturer a very original choice.  Toughest old boot in any marina is a Colin Archer.

11lbs of internal ballast is a lot to find somewhere for, never been tempted with a detachable keel?

regards,
Vintagent
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wideawake

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2010, 07:33:30 pm »

Billings you say!??  Now I am surprised.  For a kit manufacturer a very original choice.  Toughest old boot in any marina is a Colin Archer.

11lbs of internal ballast is a lot to find somewhere for, never been tempted with a detachable keel?

regards,
Vintagent

Yes AFAIK they make the Colin Archer RS1 in two sizes.   The 414 is the larger.    The ballast is lead shot held in place by pouring polyester resin in on top.  I've not been tempted by an external keel given that the hull is seaworthy enough to sail without one.    I do however wish that I'd designed the radio installation differently so that I could have made the shaped ballast block removable.    The boat is quite a lump to manage single-handed.


Anyway i've hijacked this thread for long enough!   At some point I may well put an abbreviated build thread up just showing the bits I've modified.

Cheers

Guy
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vintagent

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 11:40:55 am »

A general warning if I may...
DO NOT pour resin in any large amounts. The heat produced by the exothermic reaction increases parabolically and it could very easilly catch fire. Also the fumes emitted by a boiling then burning resin mass are toxic.

Softly softly poury resin monkey, layer at a time.  I've seen what too much too quickly can do and it was quite frightening!

Regards,
Vintagent
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DickyD

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2010, 11:47:08 am »

Smashing. That was an interesting hour's worth of browsing.   :-))      Given me some ideas about my next boat.   8)

Cheers

Ken


When did you need ideas Ken ? {:-{
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wideawake

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2010, 01:02:52 pm »

A general warning if I may...
DO NOT pour resin in any large amounts. The heat produced by the exothermic reaction increases parabolically and it could very easilly catch fire. Also the fumes emitted by a boiling then burning resin mass are toxic.

Softly softly poury resin monkey, layer at a time.  I've seen what too much too quickly can do and it was quite frightening!

Regards,
Vintagent

Good points.  In fact I did three pours and had the hull floating in the test tank (bath) while I did it in order to keep the vac formed  ABS hull cool.   OTOH I've been told that it's possible to pour molten lead into a grp hull keel (cooling in the same way) without damage.

Cheers

Guy
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Colin Bishop

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Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2010, 01:07:25 pm »

Quote
OTOH I've been told that it's possible to pour molten lead into a grp hull keel (cooling in the same way) without damage.

This has been discussed on the Model Boats site over the last few days - consensus being that it is NOT a good idea and unneccesary.

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=40793&p=1

Colin
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wideawake

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2010, 01:27:15 pm »

This has been discussed on the Model Boats site over the last few days - consensus being that it is NOT a good idea and unneccesary.

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=40793&p=1

Colin

It did sound a bit drastic to me but obviously gets more weight in less space than the small lead shot and resin method I used on CA.   Very interesting thread on the MB forum with sufficient warnings to definitely put me off trying the method.   Well worth reading for anyone thinking of internal lead ballast.

Also a very good point about getting "real" lead not fishing lead.   I got 12kg from a diving supplies seller on ebay.

Guy
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Circlip

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2010, 01:34:51 pm »

You could mix a large quantity of resin at one go but you need to DECREASE the hardner added to it because of the exothermic reaction (cooks from the INSIDE outwards) of the resin. Also you need to be aware of the ambient temperature as less hardner is used in hotter climes.

  ANY material is unsafe if not used correctly, just RTFM and be aware. Be telling us Sulphuric acid is dangerous next.

  Regards  Ian.
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John W E

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2010, 02:41:54 pm »

You could mix a large quantity of resin at one go but you need to DECREASE the hardner added to it because of the exothermic reaction (cooks from the INSIDE outwards) of the resin. Also you need to be aware of the ambient temperature as less hardner is used in hotter climes.

  ANY material is unsafe if not used correctly, just RTFM and be aware. Be telling us Sulphuric acid is dangerous next.

  Regards  Ian.

hummmm I always thought it was the accelerator mix that is put onto polyester resin that determines the heat and speed to which resin cures.  So, if the mass of resin is there in one area, reducing the hardener will only help a little - you will still get heat build up generated that will be dangerous plus if you have one mass lump of resin you will find over a period of time the resin will shrink and crack best do it in layers.  When professional laminators lay up large thick laminates, they will alternate over different areas of the mould to allow the laminate to cool and gel before going back to laminate over the top.
 
 aye

john e
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DickyD

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2010, 02:48:13 pm »

hummmm I always thought it was the accelerator mix that is put onto polyester resin that determiners the heat and speed to witch resin cures.  So, if the mass of resin is there in one area, reducing the hardener will only help a little you will still get heat build up generated that will be dangerous plus if you have one mass lump of resin you will fined over a period of time the resin will shrink and crack best do it in layers when professional laminators lay up large thick laments they will alternate over different areas of the mould to allow the lament to cool and gel be for going back to laminate over the top
 
 aye

john e
What are you on John, have you read your posting ?

Tried to ring you Sunday evening but got no answer. :-))
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John W E

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 03:10:21 pm »

What are you on John, have you read your posting ?

Tried to ring you Sunday evening but got no answer. :-))

There you go Dicky too much glue and many pain killers that is all it takes for me to make a hash of everything.  Back to bed I think FOR ME!!!
 
Aye
John e
bluebird
 
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Circlip

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2010, 06:28:55 pm »

I find typing slower helps and I submit to your expert knowledge on all things laminated John, but to us doylens "Fibre Glass" comes in two pots, Resin in one and Hardner in t'other and without delving into the depths of the various chemicals involved and the list is complex as you well know, the advise given by Strand Glass at the time seemed to work. Yes, I'VE had bits of "accelerated" resin flyin' round me lugs, but only once and that was due to NOT following the recipe but only the first time.

  Yes, perhaps it is better to mix small quantities. :-))

  Regards   Ian.
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John W E

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2010, 07:52:42 pm »

Aye, well said Ian

"I find typing slower helps" and also typing with eyes open - not high on glue fumes/liquid poly fumes....not recommended.

happy Accelerating one and all.....

aye
john  :-))
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Nordsee

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2010, 08:58:19 pm »

Good points.  In fact I did three pours and had the hull floating in the test tank (bath) while I did it in order to keep the vac formed  ABS hull cool.   OTOH I've been told that it's possible to pour molten lead into a grp hull keel (cooling in the same way) without damage.

Cheers

Guy
Yup, you can do it like that, well I have done it! have to be very careful that the interior is totally dry, and have someone wearing thick leather gloves hold the hull steady as you pour.I melt my lead over a camping stove in an Ally Saucepan. I did mine in a series of pours. I have 4 kilos of lead in the hull of my cutter, and a false keel as well!
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pugwash

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2010, 11:58:40 pm »

To add to Nordsee's post, many moons ago when I used to go pistol shooting I used to load my own
ammo and mould my own bullets - If you melt lead have a LOT of ventilation otherwise be prepared for
to mother of all headaches.

Geoff
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CandG

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Re: Colin Archer & Molten Lead Ballast
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 09:22:40 pm »

Hi
 just a thought, but you could try using casting resin, designed for large areas without exothermic reaction.
 
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