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Author Topic: Cargoes  (Read 2199 times)

funtimefrankie

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Cargoes
« on: July 21, 2010, 07:57:37 AM »

A big export from Liverpool docks is scrap metal, to China I'm told.
Can any tell me if the ships bring anything into UK or do they arrive in ballast?

Just to answer a pub argument
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tigertiger

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 08:46:55 AM »

At a guess, many ships leave China full and return part or completely empty.

With all this cargo capacity not being used, I would think it unlikely that there are boats going to China full and returning to Europe empty.

But I stand to be corrected.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 08:22:15 PM »

The old saying that "things were like taking coal to Newcastle" springs to mind.
This may seem a little odd, but such is the world of commerce nowadays.
Looking from the North bank of the Tyne ( from above the Royal Quays area), an absolute mountain of so called scrap metal can be seen next to where new Nissans are loaded on to their car carriers (a touch of pre-emption, perhaps?). The very large ships all this "scrap" is loaded into does, as far as I've been told, eventually find its way to China. But then....or so I'm led to believe, the ship toddles down to Australia and fills up with coal. To feed our coal fired power stations. Can't use "British coal" as the power station wasn't designed to burn the stuff. Were the power stations designed by an Aussie? Who knows. But, as I said, all very "odd". Then the ships bring all this coal into the Tyne, discharge, and load up with more so-called "scrap" metal. And so the circle begins.
"We" can't dig our own coal because the "system" can't burn it, "we" can't process unwanted metal any more because all the plants have been sold off to some billionaire who comes from a country closer to China than we do.
Really, it's no wonder that we (as a nation) find ourselves plodging through the fiscal doo-doo, with everybody throwing up their hands and saying "not my fault.'guv". I rest my case. BY.
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derekwarner

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 10:36:27 PM »

mmmm Brian is correct here.....called the unbalanced leg  {-)

OZ to UK with our coal
UK to China with your scrap steel
China to OZ ........ballasted [or the unbalanced leg]

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Derek Warner

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Navy2000

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 02:33:24 AM »

When I was stationed in Portsmouth, NH. we had bilk cargo ships that came in with salt which was dropped off at one pier and then the ship would be moved ahead to the next pier and loaded with scrap metal to go some where.

Duane
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 08:05:19 AM »

Were the power stations designed by an Aussie?

It's all part of a master plan, Bryan, Australia is surreptitiously taking over England O0

Peter.
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Roger in France

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 08:27:25 AM »

It is called "capitalism" Bryan.

Nothing to do with making sense, loyalty, environmental conservation. It is just about making profit for the few.

Roger in France
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Bryan Young

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2010, 11:08:55 PM »

Peter and Roger....
I suppose I have to agree with both of you, much as it hurts to say it.
But why should this be? Has the UK all of a sudden become the resting place of all the wimps in the world?
Or is it down to the fact that the UK for the last 20 odd years has been "governed" by incompetents who can only read a financial balance sheet. It really does seem to me to be quite extraordinary that our so-called elected representatives are very "gung-ho" in promoting other countries "trade" at the expense of the home country. I'm afraid my aged and old-fashioned logical brain seizes up a bit just thinking about it all. BY.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2010, 11:29:39 PM »

Bryan, a similar situation applies here, too. In 1956, when TV was in its infancy in Australia, we had a blossoming electronics industry, and most early TV sets were Australian made; now they're all made in SE Asia.

We used to manufacture a very capable light aircraft, the Victa Airtourer, but the government of the day would give the company no assistance, now it's made in New Zealand as the CT4.

Most white goods are imported, whereas once they were made here - and the list goes on.

As for clothing, I'm old enough to remember when all my clothes were made in Australia  O0, now they're made in China, Taiwan, Fiji, Indonesia etc, etc  >>:-(

Australia exports most of its coal and iron ore, then we pay through the nose for products made using those raw materials, and imported back into the country.  <*<

Peter.
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2010, 11:51:30 PM »

Virtually all the bulkers loading scrap in Liverpool arrive empty from where I don't knowMost are quite old and passed their best some are quite recent builds. Some load one type of scrap and then move berth; this entails using three tugs entering the river through one lock the re-entering the system through another, not a cheap operation I expect.

The ships are loaded over three days normally; working 24/7. this can result in loss of sleep on quite wind less nights (I live opposite on of the berths on the other side of the river).

Although China is a major destination, sometimes by way of the Cape.  Egypt and Turkey are also act as major destinations. The destination for one last week was Singapore for orders.

LB
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Bryan Young

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2010, 04:53:32 PM »

Bryan, a similar situation applies here, too. In 1956, when TV was in its infancy in Australia, we had a blossoming electronics industry, and most early TV sets were Australian made; now they're all made in SE Asia.

We used to manufacture a very capable light aircraft, the Victa Airtourer, but the government of the day would give the company no assistance, now it's made in New Zealand as the CT4.

Most white goods are imported, whereas once they were made here - and the list goes on.

As for clothing, I'm old enough to remember when all my clothes were made in Australia  O0, now they're made in China, Taiwan, Fiji, Indonesia etc, etc  >>:-(

Australia exports most of its coal and iron ore, then we pay through the nose for products made using those raw materials, and imported back into the country.  <*<

Peter.
But you do have a very good ceramic tile industry....or has that gone as well? With all the privately owned pleasure craft clogging up all your beautiful harbours, aren't these boats built "in house" so to speak? And as an aside....has Newcastle (NSW) got any heavy industry left? BY.
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dreadnought72

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2010, 05:35:09 PM »

When I was young, people made "stuff" at their places of work. They got paid, and bought "stuff" with their money. Seemed fairly obvious to me.

In post-industrial Britain, we don't make "stuff", we provide "services" instead, and send money overseas for "stuff". People overseas generally don't need our "services" so there's a net drain.

How does this economy work when we're effectively trying to sell each other telesales, hotel rooms, conference facilities and IT Support?

I don't get it.

Andy
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Cargoes
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2010, 11:37:45 PM »

But you do have a very good ceramic tile industry....or has that gone as well? With all the privately owned pleasure craft clogging up all your beautiful harbours, aren't these boats built "in house" so to speak? And as an aside....has Newcastle (NSW) got any heavy industry left? BY.

Bryan, I believe a viable ceramic tile manufacturing industry still exists in Australia, but I know that many tile shops sell imported products from Italy, among other countries.

There are also still a few luxury boat builders left here, but many have either closed, or moved to SE Asia.

The 1990s saw the closure of the Newcastle Steelworks. In 1997, BHP reached an agreement with the Australian Construction and Trade Union (ACTU) and on 29 April 1997 BHP formally announced the closure of the Steelworks to be completed by 1999. In 1999, all iron and steel making facilities were closed leaving only an expanded rod and bar production line to continue.

My wife comes from the Newcastle area, and I well remember the pollution caused by the works; now, there are clear skies over the city.

Below are 2 photos I took in 1965, showing the works from a distance, and ships tied up at the steel works wharf in the Hunter River.

Peter.
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