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Author Topic: Pond yacht renovation help requested  (Read 10611 times)

des321

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Pond yacht renovation help requested
« on: August 07, 2010, 12:55:22 PM »

I have recently acquired the hull of an old pond yacht that I would like to renovate as a working rc model. She is 62" in deck length with a 12" beam. The hull has been made sound. From my limited research she seems very similar to a Vintage Marblehead. Any help with identification from the attached photos would be good.
What I really need is pointing in the right direction to work out mast height, sail sizes and appropriate fittings for this type of yacht. I would also be grateful for recommendations of appropriate suppliers for the materials I am going to need, e.g. Long lime planks for the decking;  dowel for the mast (at least 2M long I guess); sailmaker; and fittings, etc.
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JayDee

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2010, 03:45:40 PM »


Hello,

A Marblehead yacht hull would only be 53 inches long.
Your hull seems to be an old "A" Class one.

On the top of the deck above the rudder, are there signs of fittings having been there.
If so, the boat could have been a Vane Steered yacht - - - pre radio control !!

Have a look at the specs for a "A" Class boat, there you will find the sail sizes and areas.

John,  :-)
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Vintage

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 05:06:27 PM »

Hi

Not sure if you're familiar with the "Vintage Model Yacht Group" but the site is a wealth of information for you...

http://www.vmyg.org.uk

Your boat looks very similar to Bill Daniels "Prospero" of 1913 with details here:   http://www.vmyg.org.uk/pages/resources/plans/prospero_plan.htm

A similar, albeit scaled down, version with a Bermuda Rig is also shown here:   http://www.vmyg.org.uk/pages/gallery/whatis/my84.htm

You'll also find pages on the site detailing where to buy materials, fittings, sails, etc. etc.

Hope this helps & good luck.

Mark.
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JayDee

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 09:02:02 PM »

Hello des321,

A dodge I have used a lot is to place a piece of card against the computer screen and mark onto it the length of the hull in a picture.
You say your hull is 62 inches long, so the marks on the card are equal to 62 inches apart.

Divide that length into divisions of say 2 inches and you can then get the sizes of all the other parts of the picture.
It helps a lot if the original picture is as large as possible, to cut down on any errors.

The Mast position, mast height, sail sizes, boom lengths, all will be easy to size up!!.
Print a large image of the boat, then place onto it all your "real life " sizes.

John.  :-))
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des321

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2010, 03:39:50 PM »

Thanks guys your posts are most helpful and much appreciated.
Des :-)
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hmsantrim

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2010, 05:02:39 AM »

Hi des321.
                You hull is to the length of the 10 rate class yacht. I recommend nylet for your fittings as the have been around an extremly
                long time and they may still do vintage period fittings for your model.
                 They can fix you up sails and an aluminium mast unless you want to do one in wood. As you are going to RC the yacht you
                 will have to increase the depth of the rudder.  When the hull is heeled over the rudder comes out of the water thats why
                 RC racing yacht boys have theirs a lot longer than the vane steering yachts.

                Nylet   PO Box 5416
                  Bournemouth  Dorset
                  BH6 5XT       Tel: 01202 420370 -  Contact us by email: frank.nylet@ntlworld.com

                      I have put up some pix of mine deck length 72" x 11"beam and I stuck a piece of wood in the mast hole so you can see
                       its position in relation to the keel.  The vintage mob should be able to fix you up with a plan to get the position of the
                       deck fittings.

                                                cheers Frank

                                     
                     














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des321

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 09:10:43 PM »

Thanks hmsantrim,
Your identification is verified by a response from the vmyg.
I have started to sand the hull which seems to be in good order.

Do you think it a good idea to put a layer of resin on the hull before painting or just sanding sealer? Is it imperative to remove all previous traces of paint before continuing?
Thanks   Des
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hmsantrim

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 02:52:27 AM »

 Hi Des.
           I will start by saying I am not an expert or do I claim to be in the area of yacht restoration as saying that one usually ends up with egg on thy face. What I can say to you is what my preffered method is and others will no doubt give theirs but then ultimately you have to decide what is best for your project.
 
 Looking at the inside of the hull it appears to be coated with tar or pitch which is one of the early methods of sealing the hull. What you can find is over time this will crack and break away. I would see if any of this was loose and if possible look at removing all of it with out damaging the hull.  I would prefer to coat the inside of the hull with resin and tissue mating that way the hull is sealed and strengthened.  
 
 I usually begin a wood hull refit by paint stripping with nitromors then sanding as it saves a lot of work.  Next I check the condition of the wood see if any needs replaced or just filler.  When I am satisfied the outer hull wood is as good as its going to be I start on the painting. If you are going to put sanding sealer on the bare wood thats your preference but I have always thought sand sealer was for soft open grain wood like balsa.

 As all wood is porous and will soak up what ever you put on the bare wood I just apply the colour of good quality gloss paint I am going to have the model finished in. I build up several coats sanding in between till its as smooth and shiny as can be.  

 I had a guy complain to me about the difficulty he was having sanding the red paint of the bottom of a cargo boat hull he bought from me.  I called him a diddy and told him he should have left it alone as it was the best of gear hammerite red enamel which was why he was having a hard time removing it by sanding. Served the 'xxx' right {-)

I have put up a pix of an old graupner gracia hull I have done some work on. The planking is opened up so its getting glassed inside I will have to get some gell coat for the bow area as this will not run off the matting and end up in the bilges.


 Well Des having read my scribble you pick the best option for your project.


                                cheers Frank  

    


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des321

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 04:21:54 PM »

Frank,
That's very helpful. Can I ask what paint you use and how you apply it. Do you use an undercoat as the first layer?
Thanks     Des
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hmsantrim

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 08:54:47 PM »

 Hi Des.
            This is a taking a bit for you to grasp what I am saying so  I will try another approach.

             I don`t use any special primers or undercoats as the first coat on to bare wood as I said previously wood is a naturally porous
              material so I just use the gloss paint as an undercoat and you will find the bare wood will soak it up like a sponge.
             
             If you want to go for primers and undercoats you go ahead mate as there is no right or wrong way to go about this.
              I just go straight in with the gloss paint as it waterproofs the wood immediately and gives it a hard shell like enamel.
                I am not sure about primers and undercoats for bare wood as I dont think the are absorbed into the wood grain the
                 way that the paint is I thought they more gave a surface base covering for gloss paint to be applied on to. 

                   I am generally a brush man when it comes to wood, spraying I reserve for the GRP stuff, but if your a spray man then
                     go for it if thats what you feel comfortable with.
                        I go to a DIY warehouse like B&Q and select the best gloss paint they have quite often the have the international
                           brand paints/ varnishes which would be ideal for you as they are used by the full size yachties.

                                        http://iyp.yachtpaint.com/uk/
               

                                 Going back to a question you asked earlier about glassing the outside of the hull. In my oppinion if you glass the
                                 outside of the wood hull then you have got a GRP boat.  If you glass the inside you still have a wooden boat
                                   and the boat retains its character if you see what i am getting at.

                                    here is a link to look at http://www.vmyg.org.uk/pages/gallery/whatis/dainty.htm

                                       cheers Frank  :-))
                             
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des321

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 10:03:56 PM »

Thanks for that Frank,
I'm sorry if I have been a  bit slow on the uptake but I generally get there in the end. I am fairly new to this hobby and still have a lot to learn. I also find plenty of different opinions on many subjects, which is good. Ultimately we all find a solution that works for us. I agree with you about retaining the wooden outside of the hull. After a lifetime of being educated by paint manufacturers that I needed primer, undercoat and then topcoat I just wanted to be sure I had understood you correctly. I was most pleased to hear you use a brush. I hate spraying. I will follow your advice.
Thank you      Des
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hmsantrim

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 03:19:31 PM »

Hi Des.
         RE:  I'm sorry if I have been a bit slow on the uptake but I generally get there in the end.
                 I also have that condition  {-)....and thats even after 40 years of all kinds of modelling....

            I try to make my deliberations on a subject as clear and direct as possible without being technical.  I re furbished a wood hulled
           marblehead @1982.  paint stripped the planked hull which was in perfect condition, then sanded it to a smooth finish.
           
                I gloss painted below the waterline red above was a medium blue. I finished the hull off with a white coachline tape
               waterline you get this for cars in halfords. This sets off the hull by dividing the two colours.
               
               if you look at the link for the forum you can see what I am on about. Alas I dont have the yacht I did all the TLC on as the
              boat shed it was kept it got trashed a few years later BxxxxxxS.

               I would nitro the hull first, then sand it, then if you are going to glass inside do that next, I would do the planing for the
              deck next. Look at the deck supports acces for rudder and radio gear etc  I dont see a mast step in the pix which says the
              mast was deck stepped though I prefer the mast step in the hull as its a more robust set up.    get all the building work and
               messy stuff out the way first then go for the painting
             

                                                 cheers Frank


                     http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24944.0                             

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newtried

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Re: Pond yacht renovation help requested
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 03:38:21 PM »

 Hi, Ignore  the newtried bit I,m pete really maidenhead based with a  1950s odd!  motor yacht 56" L  14" beam, any one in maidenhead  mutual help? peter@trayte.com
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