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Author Topic: seaking helicopter  (Read 2550 times)

regiment

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seaking helicopter
« on: August 14, 2010, 03:17:33 pm »

a question of cost how much dose it cost to keep a sea king halicopter in flight  the reason i ask is that yesterday and again today a sea king was on the beach here in perranporth rescueing holiday makers who do not take any notice of our TRAINED LIFE GUARDS WHO  KNOW THE BEACH like the back of there hand trouble is we all ways get the know alls here when the sun is out i will not mention the ambulances  police  or  coast guard sirans do not hear them after the holiday season  nice and quite  well thats my moan for today over
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wbeedie

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 04:17:26 pm »

As Far as I know it costs 5000 an hour to use  a fair cost but worth it if some ones life is at risk, and had to be airlifted from a liferaft before so well chuffed they are there to be used
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regiment

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 04:34:19 pm »

5000 an hour and the  country is in debt  so that was 15000 in two days  for people who ignore trained life guards  makes yer think
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Circlip

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 04:36:44 pm »

Only saving grace Regiment is that they get live practice in for when something really serious happens. Far better to practice on muppets than risk deserving causes.

  Wonder what the "Tombstone" rescues are going to add up to this year,  >>:-(  should let the stupid little s*ds rescue themselves.

  Nother rant over.

  Regards  Ian.
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riggers24

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 05:00:51 pm »

It will be the same helicopters from RNAS Culdrose that came to help Boscastle when they were overwhelmed by that flood. Because of these numpty who don't follow any instructions they get themselves in trouble, I have read in the local newspaper the Tynemouth volunteer life brigade have been called out twice in 8 days to rescue the same idiot who has driven out with his 4x4 and trailer to land his boat and got stuck in the soft sand.

Again it is all practice for the "real shouts" happen but at what cost not just the money but if someone who really needs the help and they are away helping idiots. I bet if these idiots had to pay the costs it would so stop.
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Netleyned

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2010, 05:11:52 pm »

In Cleethorpes this week the Beach Safety Patrol advised a Know it all to leave the sandbank he was on as he would be cut off by the incoming tide
He was assaulted for giving good advice (possibly life saving advice) and had his pelvis broken
Earlier the inshore lifeboat had rescued two others from another sandbank
Red flags and warning notices are completely ignored.

Oh and a human foot was found two days ago on the beach -no sign of the owner!


Ned
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Roger in France

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2010, 05:32:35 pm »

If it can be legally proven that they ignored warnings they should be charged for the full cost of recovery.

Unfortunately it will seldom be possible to prove such a thing.

Roger in France
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pugwash

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2010, 06:21:40 pm »

The RNLI have never been known to charge anybody in case it puts people off from
calling in when its a real emergency  - and as for the 5000 an hour to keep a seaking
in the air - my wife was up at RAF Boulmer on a Blood Donor session about 15yrs ago
and that was the figure quoted then so take a guess what it is now!!

Geoff
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regiment

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2010, 11:25:08 am »

another call out yesterday this time the cornwall air ambulance landed on the green 2 seconds from my house
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Prophet

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2010, 02:14:05 pm »

you find that the devon and cornwall air ambulance is publicly financed through donations and charity work. I belive the seakings in this area are naval owned and the cost of them is funded via the tax systems but dont quote me on that!
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regiment

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2010, 02:30:47 pm »

you are right on that one i was on about the cost to the tax payer 15000 plus in two days  lot of money to me
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Prophet

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2010, 02:57:00 pm »

what ever the cost to the tax payers is that cost worth a life? i believe so i would like to think that if a member of my family, my children or myself were ever on need of the use of one that the cost of 5 grand a trip wold be worth it, thing to remember with money is that its always there, it can be replaced one way or the other but your life can't your either here or your 6 foot under.

But I'm sure all those who have flown in one would say that its worth the cost. thats the same as saying that you have to pay for medical treatment in other countries, you pay because you need it and with out it you get the idea

At the end of the day its a service like any other emergency service it all cost us the tax payer. just think what an ambulance cost a year to run or a fire engine, with out a doubt the amount on the roads they proably chew up more tax cash then the air services through shear quaintly of them running, on a daily basic i must see 2 or 3 ambulances go past my windows, emergency doctors in there estate cars, police cars regally, 2 or 3 police vans especially on a Friday or Saturday night, fire engine once a week and the coast guard daily during the summer. it asks the question which is cheaper ? running the helicopter at 5 grand a day for a period of 3 months during the summer and two or three times a week during the winter or the 1000's of emergency service cars daily?
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The Antipodean

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2010, 05:08:25 pm »

Mnay years ago, when I was much younger and fitter, I was a volunteer lifesaver at a local beach where I was raised in NZ. You could almost guarantee that every weekend we would get at least one vehicle buried by the tide because the owner drove around the warning signs, 5 swimmers dragged out for ignoring the flags and getting sucked out by the rip and at least 1 boater overturned in the surf because they don't understand that their little runabout does not handled like the surf rescue boats do.
Kept us busy and I was lucky in that there was no drownings in the two years I was there.
I read about the lifeboats from around England and I am impressed by the dedication of not only the people that work on them but the people that support them, 365 days a year.
Now I am living in the Good Ole Capitalistic US of A it amazes at how people will do nothing to help as they may be sued for something. Local authorities are starting to charge people for rescues under various local stupidity laws if it turns out they ignored signs.
All I really have to say is that your system of marine rescue still seems to be the best and keep up the great work.
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Bryan Young

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2010, 09:19:40 pm »

I, like "Riggers", was a bit surprised to read that a Sea King had been scrambled to assist(?) an idiot who'd managed to get himself stuck in the sand on a rising tide. The local lifeboat station is only a couple of hundred yards away from where he first got stuck, and a bit less than a mile from his second bit of idiocy. In this area we also have the Tynemouth Volunteer Life Brigade that have done sterling service for well over a century. They are the people that heaved the idiots vehicle out of the sea. (Twice). He, the "driver" was apparently given a "stern warning" and sent on his way. No charge. Financial or legal.
Why not? Just because a service is provided shoudn't mean that (as an idiotic culprit) he/she/it shouldn't be "invited" to contribute something (like cash) to the service?
I very much doubt that a Sea King swallows up 5,000 per hour flying time. That figure would include maintenance, salaries and so on. Most of which would have to be paid for whether or not the machine was or was not flying. So I'd bring that down to 1,000 per hour for the fuel. Still too much to "rescue" numpties.
But my main gripe about the UK Rescue Services has to be about the RNLI.
I know I'm going to get some stick about this, but please read on before you assemble the lynching mob.
The RNLI always bangs on about how it relies purely on Public Subscriptions, and is always pleading poverty to such a degree that even Spike Milligan sent them enough money to buy one Wellington Boot.
It may or not be true that no Government (tax payer) money goes to the RNLI, but in the past (nowadays?) British shipping companies were obliged to give financial support.....in much the same way as they had to support the Lighthouses and so on (all calculated and enumerated in Swiss Francs).
The RNLI has a complement of directors rhat is normally headed by a retired Admiral, who presides in a very expensive Headquarters building (Poole, I think). That sucks up a lot of money. Does the RNLI really need all that?
I honestly believe that the RNLI management have been gulling the public for too long. BY.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2010, 10:36:45 pm »

Bryan,

I've read what you said but to my knowledge the RNLI only ever took government money back in the mid 1800s and that did not work out, it has been independent ever since. I'm interested in your suggestion that shipping companies were/are obliged to pay dues as that is the first time I have ever heard that suggested and I did quite a bit of research on the RNLI for my articles about the Institution published in Model Boats last year - shame you missed them. Can you substantiate that claim?

As for the Poole HQ, yes it is quite extensive (not necessarily expensive) and with good facilities which are also used to raise income by hiring out to other bodies. I was given a conducted tour last year and was impressed to see an organisation which appears to be run a lot more efficiently than many public bodies or private companies that I have knowledge of.

Yes the chief exec used to be a captain in the RN but he was a pretty effective guy by all accounts with a wide range of seagoing and managerial experience. I appreciate your RFA background colours your view of the RN but maybe you should not automatically assume that he is a feather bedded figurehead.

No, the RNLI is not perfect, they are open to criticism in some respects and some of that is probably justified but then what else would you expect in any large organisation? I also appreciate that some areas of the country have their own local volunteer lifesaving organisations such as Tynemouth and that they do an equally commendable job as the RNLI. I'm also aware that there is sometimes a degree of animosity between these local groups and the RNLI - is this colouring your views also?

I recently had the privilege of hitching a lift on the Newhaven lifeboat when it participated in ceremonies to welcome the last RAF Seaplane Tender ST206 on its final voyage. Talking to the crew it was clear that they are proud of what they do and to belong to the RNLI. These guys are practical people and would not feel that way if they felt that the organisation they belong to is run by a bunch of superannuated admirals in an ivory tower after all they give their time and risk their lives for free.

Why not come down to Poole, take the tour and see for yourself, you might even change your mind!

Colin
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Bryan Young

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2010, 02:14:15 pm »

Colin. My (slightly) negative remarks about the RNLI were solely aimed at the heirarchy and definetely not at the thousands of people around the country who support them. The crews are dedicated and do a fantastic job. My RFA background has no relevance at all.
It's the constant pleading of poverty that, over the years, has got a bit up my nose.
If you can recall my Falklands days on "Fort Grange" you may recall that I mentioned that the RFA fleet spent a huge amount of time and effort raising enough money via means verging on "public mugging" (on board) and other activities to raise enough loot to pay for a new lifeboat. I can't recall what class of boat it was, but it didn't seem to be operational for very long before, as I understand it, the RNLI realised itwas unsuitable for its purpose and was withdrawn. It was that sort of wastefulness that leaves a bit of a sour taste.
My reference to the "Swiss gold francs" was a long ago memory from the "Ships Business" part of the Masters (FG) syllabus. I don't know if it still applies....and I'm aware that "Government" money is not provided.
In a way I suppose I'm a bit unsettled that this country has at least 3 organisations (not counting the RAF and the RN) who are all dedicated to the saving of life at sea, but although they all work together they remain autonomous and have differing funding methods.
Put me right if I'm wrong, but doesn't the USA lump all of this under the US Coastguard system? That, to me at least, seems a better way of doing things, and wouldn't preclude "private" organisations (such as the TVLB) from operating. Just a thought. BY.
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Notes from a simple seaman

Colin Bishop

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Re: seaking helicopter
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 04:07:31 pm »

Bryan,

Well the US Coastguard was nominally in charge of dealing with the BP spill.....

I understand your points but just imagine if the RNLI were under Government control - how would they fare under the current blitz on spending? It's apparently already been decided that the rescue helicopters won't be replaced as intended in order to save to save money and not so long ago there was a firm proposal to remove the Lee on Solent chopper on the grounds of economy despite the fact that it covers what must be the busiest waters in the UK in terms of shipping and recreational craft movements quite apart from it being a major holiday area where people insist on becoming trapped by the tide with monotonous regularity.

As far as fund raising is concerned, yes the RNLI are very prominent but I find their methods less intrusive than many other charities. I donated to the Asian Tsunami appeal via Oxfam and they've been agressively on my back ever since with the real hard sell to the extent that I just bin their mail now.

I agree that the RNLI doesn't always get it right, any organisation of that size will be subject to criticism from time to time. It's just that when I look at the alternatives....

Colin
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