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[andywright]

Back home again, while I was away I swapped all the screws on my TVR1A for bolts in the hex bolt kit, ran the engine on compressed air, got the timing sorted , motor ran for 1 hour per night for 5 days, all run in and hunky dory!!!.
Went down the local lake today and ran the boat on steam, one of the bolts on the valve chest snapped off for some reason, must have tightened it to much, though I don't know how using the socket spanners supplied in the hex bolt kit, so its back to square one, i need some one with the correct equipment to remove the sheered off bolt so I can fit a new one, getting a bit peeved with this now, and it ran like a dream, though not for long due to the amount of steam lost from the valve chest.!!!

Andy

[mogogear]

Oh Andy bad luck..
 
If you remove the cover is there enough of the bolt( now stud) available to get a grip on it?

[gondolier88]

If that doesn't work you'll have to remove the valve chest and remove it from there. Bad luck- I would recommend steel bolts at that size every time.

Greg

[andywright]

It seems steel bolts are the way to go, or steel studding with small brass nuts as on the Anton engines. Not had a chance yet to look at how much is visible, but I'd say none of itlooking at the piece which broke off.

[andywright]

Now looking at a Hemmings Richmond, or an Anton Jade. See how the pennies go.

[mogogear]

If worse comes- the remains of a brass bolt are easy to drill out. Small scale for sure- and then run a small tap in to clean out the threads.

Good luck Andy

[andywright]

Got the bolt out easily, took the valve chest off and it was sticking out 1/16 inch. Replaced the steel screws now except on the cylinder heads. Long time to get it done, but I work away.
Andy

[Reg Hinnant]

Glad you got it fixed without a major job.

[Meyer]

Timely question Andy--I too have a TRv1A slated for my torpedo boat destroyer - dual props and my target size is 2" 4-blade and pitch is yet to be determined....

.Sitting and watching the response you get.. What size boat and displacement would your be pushing?

Hi, I've been talking with Simon at Prop Shop, and on the size 2230/4 bld or 3 bld ? he's tells me that there is very little in proformance difference either way , so take your pick,

[pettyofficernick]

Hi there I have just taken delivery of a TVR, and was thinking of getting the hex bolt kit. Is it worth it? I know it will look better, but are there any other advantages? At 30 quid its a lot to shell out for bolts that may shear.
Regards,
Nick.

[derekwarner]

Hullo Nick......yes it cerainly would be a visual improvement over the original cheese head metal thread screws retaining the cylinder caps & valve chests ..... .....but 30 QUID is a little over the top  

Could you not find a fastner specialist? & did Jerry C not perform the same TVR1A hex head modification in his build?

Some of our purist members may suggest that a minature digital torque wrench is unnecessary and experience is the road to a level of correct attainment

...... yet we had a member [andywright] shear one of the bolts on the valve chest

Andy has acknowledged that he used the 'socket spanner supplied in the hex bolt kit'...but what torque was appllied?

Applied torque is not black magic...but does depend on thread surface finish on both mating parts, the depth of thread engagement , the grade of material in both mating parts  & also the anti-galling lubricant used  

I do not own a minature digital torque wrench, and do not see the need to acquire the same....but at the same time view "recommended torque table values' as best a +/-30 % of the actual requirement

I would be interested to read the thoughts of other members.......Derek

[pettyofficernick]

Good morning Derek, Interesting comments there, I tries to get some Hex bolts for my PMR V twin from a local engineers merchants, but they did not stock the required US thread, and some of the TVR screws seem to be of the 'fitted' type, so may have been manufactured specifically for this engine. Personally, I rely on the 'handraulic' variety of torque wrench, if it feels right, it probably is.. I remember when the cambelt broke on a Vauxhall Astra I once owened requiring me to remove the cylinder head to repair the broken cam followers and check for valve and piston damage. I looked on the net for torque loadings for the head bolts and discovered that instead of torque loadings a special protractor was needed to pull the head down in stages, ie, all bolts tightened to 30 degrees, round again at 45 degrees, again at 15 degrees, and so on, warm the engine through and do it all again, but no starting point, screw bolts down hand tight then start with the protractor, not in my view an accurate way of doing things. having neither torque wrench or 1/2 inch drive protractor, I used the 'handraulic' method and the car went fine with no adverse effects for 3 years before I sold it on, and is still going fine to this day, so do we really need to be that accurate?
Regards,
Nick

[Jerry C]

Hi Nick, re the hex bolts, I chose them purely for aesthetic reasons in that when the shine wears off and patina sets in I think they fit in with the feel of my launch. They only cost me £20 as I got them and the marine flywheel together with the engine. I thought, when you compare with other similar engines the price overall was very reasonable. As to torque, stand back a mo and think what you're actually dealing with here.  A very small, low pressure steam engine. As received the quality is superb. The instructions tell one to lap in a few of the parts but honestly when you've done one you will soon realise that it's all good enough as is. Gaskets come with the Kit but I didn't use them, in fact I didn't finally use any jointing compound either. I found it hard to get on thin enough so as not to squeeze it out and go where it ain't meant to go. So metal to metal only and it doesn't leak after many runs. The wrench supplied is a thin tube type finger wrench similar in operation to a watchmakers screwdriver. Have only one shredded wheat for breakfast and I can't see you over tightening anything. At 35 psi the thrust on a cylinder cover is really tiny and spread between 4 bolts is negligeable. Someone once told me that if you want to tighten a bolt without a torque wrench then make the lever ten times the diameter of the bolt and you'll be pretty close. On Sultzer cylinder heads, before stud stretching jacks the chief, second and third engineers used to pull on a six foot spanner until the second farted and that was ok.  I didn't use any thread type loctite either and nothing has come loose. The instructions supplied are perfect. Do what the man says and you'll be right. I found the hardest thing to do was paint it cos it looked so beautifull in its brass , stainless steel and aluminium when built that it seemed almost a crime to cover it but the model required I do so.
Enjoy building it and don't let yourself get too involved with technicalities. Get a 3" dia 4" or better still 6" pitch 3or4 blade prop from propshop and she'll run beautifully without using too much steam. I hope this helps you. Best wishes,
Jerry.

[pettyofficernick]

Hi Jerry, thanks for the advice, I wasn't really worried about torque loading, Derek's post got me thinking, that's all. As my engine is going in an African Queen, it should be painted black, but I have opted to just paint the base plate and the cylinder base plate, and the rest will stay shiny, I can't bring myself to paint all that nice metalwork. I have had a good look through the parts, and the quality of the machining is, as you say, superb.I will probably just give a light lapping with 800 or 1000 grit Emery paper. I will be fitting the biggest prop I can fit in the available space, I cant wait to see it running with the Maccsteam boiler. I do not have a compressor for running in purposes, so do you think it will be ok to go straight to steam for running in?
Many thanks,
Nick.

[Jerry C]

Instructions say run on air first. I haven't given it much thought but can't think why you can't motor it on an electric drill. Start slow and watch the colour of the oil throw off. You have to put a drop in the inlet now and again. Or even a 12v tyre blower upperer. I always motored my new bike engines on kerosene for two or three hours before running on fuel.
Jerry.

[pettyofficernick]

Thanks Jerry, I have the Ball bearing version, so there are no plain bearings to bed down but a drill on slow sounds good. I was thinking along the lines of an aquarium pump once everything is turning smoothly.
Regards,
Nick.

[steam up]

On half power turning a 3" prop model is 48" long.broad beam as you can see great little engine .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfvsAeBVYA0&feature=youtu.be

[polaris]

 
Dear Nick (and All), I am very sorry to interupt, but Nick, I have lost your t.no., please ring and leave message. Thankyou. Regards, Bernard  ---- Dear All, and I say this to all my friends on Mayhem... ok, I am still about, a readjustment from last year means I get more peace, but not quite enough just yet to participate... but shortly! B.

[bill stafford]

hello guys,
        in our small club i helped a guy put a TVR 1 into a 1100mm steam tug hull,has a MSM 100mm gas fired boiler, started w a 75mm prop ,and it through a rooster tail !!!!!
down proped to a 50 mm brass prop,all props brass+3 bladed.whats this about low powered ?? plenty ,as long as the boiler free steaming ,no issues, having said that ,under load ,the steam pressure can fall away ,but its over 25 psi
bill s

[Bernhard]

Hi,, i use 55mm on all my steam boat 3/4 blade from propshop,,
Miniature hex screws
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniature-Hardware-Parts-100-Pack-Hex-Head-Steel-Small-Screws-2-56-x-7-16-/190606015667
Regards
Bernhard

[bill stafford]

we have a tug hull driven by a TVR1 and started w a 75mm 3 bladed brass prop
it drove the hull easily
boiler is a 100mm centre flue on gas by MSM

[southsteyne2]

Jerry I believe you would ruin the engine by running in with an electric drill simply because the slide valve or valves would have no pressure against them to form a steam tight seal and would surely wear unevenly on the cylinder face,also regards tightening bolts sometimes it depends on ones career eg a a fitter turner boiler makers tend to have heavier sense of pressure for want of a different way of expression as I can remember my brother in law a fitter in the mines would always brake anything under 1/4 inch dia .
Cheers to all
John

[derekwarner]

 ....."brother in law a fitter in the mines?"

Yes we have differing example members at our Club ....tending to R&M on their engines

Retired neurosurgeons & accountants = beautifully stored & presented sets of BS & metric open ended + ringies
Retired engineer/fitters from the mines = a torch & three various sizes of shifting spanners & a hammer

Then they wonder why have rounded nuts

Derek

[bill stafford]

i set 1 up in a tug hull 100mm centre flue and 25/45 psi
drives easily a 75mm brass prop , we down sized to a 50  mm 3 bladed brass prop due to rooster tail behind tug !!
dont under estimate the tvr-1

[bill stafford]

to try tip, why bother w a torque wrench,
try a drop of tamiya thread lock, no were as strong as the others , but you can always undo it, i use it on my props and rudder linkage and never lost one .
only issue w steam may be the heat , but i would try it, or even the pvc plumbers blue glue