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Author Topic: help needed  (Read 5426 times)

terry1956

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help needed
« on: September 04, 2010, 07:12:34 PM »

hi, can anyone please help me, i have a sub that needs help in the radio control area. i did not make the model and this is all i know about it. 40mhz, 4 channel. as speed control one elec motor for propeller, servo for from rudder, servo for hydroplanes at rear, water pump for diving. can anyone please make up a wiring diagram showing all the parts needed from the way the battery is wired, the radio control gear, and the pump and rudders, motor etc. and a way to test these items, its all a mass inside and i need to understand how it all works before taking a part and renewing the wiring etc. also waters the best battery pack to use for the sub, at the moment its just recharge batteries ( not sure what voltage as no markings) soldered badly together, i think there must be a better way, does the voltage count, ie will the servos work ok with a larger voltage battery pack.
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hollowhornbear

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Re: help needed
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 08:21:08 PM »

pictures would help, then i'm sure someone on here could help. It's all a little vague from your description.
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hmsantrim

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Re: help needed
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 11:03:11 PM »

Hi terry1956.
                   Pix of the outside of the sub are also required to identify what model it is, you have stated one motor so it appears to be
                    modern may even be a robbe shark?? are the parts in a module or are they accessible

                                    cheers Frank   
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terry1956

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Re: help neededsome pictures and thankyou for offers of help, michael
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2010, 11:10:06 AM »

























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terry1956

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Re: help needed picture of whole sub.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2010, 11:13:33 AM »





this shows the picture of the whole sub, the tower lifts off to allow excess into the hull. i have no idea what make it is.
michael
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derekwarner

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Re: help needed
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 11:57:00 AM »

Hi Terry....no matter what comments you get back....you appear to have a true operational model sub complete with sections of internal corrosion  :-)) ...so life like

I had worked on our HMAS Oberon class ....but only very briefly...........the rust & the rats were probably similar....  {-)

I am sure some of the Mayhem sub sea crew members will assist  :-)) .....Derek
 


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Derek Warner

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www.ils.org.au

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Re: help needed
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2010, 01:40:52 PM »

What you have there is a well used Engel Patrick Henry. Judging by he corrosion evident on the some of the equipment, it has experience some leakage, this could through the hatch seals, linkage seals or the twin piston ballast tank seals.

If you want reliability from that boat it's going to need a thorough overhaul from the ground up.

Engel do have a website, and you may be able to obtain a set of instructions, as the kit is still in production. These days you can use nickel metal hydride, lipo, liFE or Lead acid batteries.

Engels website- http://www.modelsubmarines.com

Andy

terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2010, 01:45:29 PM »

thanks for the input, yes i did have a leak, sorted that out now, will have a look on the link, can anyone help with a wiring diagram for same, thanks, michael.
also can i use a 12 volt or 6volt  battery pack with this sub, i can pick recharge batteries  up cheap if 12 or 6 volt will do. any further help would be good, michael
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Re: help needed
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2010, 02:38:06 PM »

Engel boats are either 6 volt or 12 volt. Current spec for the Patrick Henry is 6 volt, so I would think your will be the same.

Can't help with the wiring diagram I'm afraid, as Engel use their own proprietary electrickery. One or two members of this board own and run Engel boats, perhaps they can be of some assistance.

terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2010, 02:57:45 PM »

thanks for that, have ordered some paperwork today for the sub, put as i have no idea what i am looking at will find it a bit hard going i think, michael
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hmsantrim

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Re: help needed
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2010, 04:05:58 PM »

Hi terry1956.
             I have the Patrick Henry I can send you a copy of the plans.  I can see your radio is 27 mhz not 40mhz obviously the seller
               did not check this but it will do the job . The green coloured motor attached to the gear cogs is your dive tank. 

               i would start by binning the battery pack it looks line an old "saft" brand stick pack that has been chopped to fit inside.
                 Counting the cells the boat has been run on a 7.2v pack.  I would remove all the radio gear next assemble it on the bench
                   and check the servos and reciever are working. 

                      Take every thing else out the hull next if its covered in rust or green corosion.....bin it  if its not it may be salvaged.

                         Once all  the gear is removed from the hull  start decontaminating the inside of the hull get all the rust scrubbed out
                             so you have a clean surface to rebuild on.  This should keep you going for a while 

                                                                     cheers Frank
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terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2010, 04:20:42 PM »

hi Frank, the sub did run on 27mhz, put i have only 40mhz transmitter,s so will change to 40mhz all together. thanks for offer of plans that would be great. i will take apart when i understand all the items and how they refit into place. i also wish to fit a camera into place so will sort this out at the same time. May i also ask you to send me a few pics of the inside of your sub, so i know what to aim for. michael
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Patrick Henry

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Re: help needed
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2010, 05:58:18 PM »

I don't think that's an Engel Patrick Henry, the deck aft of the sail looks to be wrong, I reckon it's an early production model of the SLEC Patrick Henry. Engel took over SLEC and changed the design a couple of times before settling on the current version.
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Re: help needed
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2010, 07:26:02 PM »

I always thought that SLEC just distributed the Engel kits in the UK- Gato and Patrick Henry. I agree the sail looks wrong, I guess the previous builder had a crack at it themselves.

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Re: help needed
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2010, 07:36:15 PM »

Yes a very early Patick Henry. This was Engels first sub and the kit has gone through a number of changes over the years. Yes, this need stripping back cleaning, rewiring, testing and rebuilding. I'd fit one of the modern piston tank controllers that Engel sell as well.

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Re: help needed
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2010, 08:40:54 PM »

Engel are doing some very neat controllers now that fit onto the tanks, not sure if they're proportional though.

Here's a film I shot back in the mid nineties of the AMS stand at the ME exhibition, some nice shots of a Patrick Henry from 5:26 doing it's stuff- might help to keep your enthusiasm up.

Code: [Select]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3a7-CSuoIw[/youtube]

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Re: help needed
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2010, 11:27:54 PM »

 Hi,

Just for info in pics 6/7/12 that round thing with the wires comming off ( looks a bit like a mushroom ) looks like a water pressure sensor ( limits the depth of the boat ) My Akula has one fitted, as Mankster says you can buy one of Engels boards that will control the tanks and the depth sensor, they also incorporate failsafes for signal, battery power and water ingress. A must for ballast subs, they are called a B.T.S ballast tank switch.

Hope its of use.

Regards Sub.
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terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 09:45:16 AM »

Thanks chaps, at the moment i have ordered a set of plans and with luck a wiring diagram from the makers, the thing is i am not to sure what the items are inside the hull, ok i know whats the elec engine, one water pump, servo, receiver, put thats it, can anyone please point out all the bits and bobs from the pictures.I know i am uselesss,  also the large battery pack had a charge of 7.86 volts, so would it be ok to use a 12 volt battery as i happen to have one that should fit inside the hull. thanks, michael
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Re: help needed
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2010, 04:07:13 PM »

You have in the pictures two piston tanks- these are like big syringes with the plungers driven in and out on screw jacks with a geared motor. These need to be dismantled and thoroughly checked over, you may well get away with a clean, re-grease and reassembly, or you may need new bearings and seals dependant on how well the boat has been stored and how much use it has had. One thing worth mentioning is that the older boats have different size seals in them to the current boats. A chap who comes to the pool runs I organise found this out the hard way with his early Engel Gato. He ordered new seals for the tanks but needed to order new pipe and scratchbuild new end caps for the tanks.

Other items in your pictures are a diaphragm switch (shown in the last picture) you also have an ESC (electronic speed controller) which is the blue anodized widget, various servos, and a switcher of some kind, which other guys on here are recommending you exchange for a newer model.

terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2010, 07:43:12 PM »

thanks for that, the one think that is a worry is that trying to fit new bits into a older model. i will end up having to get all new parts as they will not intereact with each other for some reason or another. will check over all the parts in turn, at the moment i am drawing up my own diagram of the wiring etc in the hull before i start to take apart. please all of you keep the help coming, much needed, michael 
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Re: help needed
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2010, 08:05:16 PM »

The piston tanks might be the only problem IF they need new seals. You should run your boat on 6 volts if that's what it's designed for. Running it on 12 volts will require you to change the motors for the piston tanks and the main drive motor- you pays your money and takes your choice.

terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 08:19:38 AM »

thanks for that, can pick up 6 volt battery for 4.50 local. I did have the sub working once a long ago in my fish pond. put as you can see its all very old and needs a refit. can anyone please let me know the best way to test the water tanks. thanks, michael
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Re: help needed
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 10:32:15 AM »

As I said earlier, I would strip those tanks down and give them a thorough inspection before attempting to run anything.

Check that the seals are supple with no splits, check the inside bore of the tubing- they have been known to suffer from osmosis and they may want a clean. Lubricate the bearings check the roller races are not rusty or seized, gears and threaded shaft, you can use mineral oil or light grease for these parts. You should also lubricate the piston seal with some silicone grease (I pretty sure the Engel seals are nitrile- check with them).

Once you've done all that, reassemble the tanks, fill a bucket with water and run a tube from the tank to the bucket, and connect the tank to a 6 volt battery- do ensure you make use of the limit switches else you could stall out the motor.

terry1956

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Re: help needed
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 01:01:16 PM »

Hi, sounds ok re tanks will do, put what do the limit switches look like, and in what position are they, ie fitted to the water piston motors or some other place. i did say i know nothing about the workings, michael
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Re: help needed
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 06:58:24 PM »

Should be similar to the picture, I've circled the limit switch in red. You should have a minimum of two, some engel systems use three switches.


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