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Author Topic: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?  (Read 5967 times)

ghost123uk

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My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« on: September 06, 2010, 08:04:14 PM »


Got fed up with the wind spoiling my attempts to fly my model aircraft, so I bought another boat (I used to race a CMB 11cc powered Prestwich multi racer)

I reckon it is some variant of a Fairey Marine boat, but could be wrong  :embarrassed:
Also wondering if it was a kit or scratch built and how old it might be ?

She measure 35" long and 11" beam
Power is a ringed Irvine 61 marine (with a water cooled backplate = neat) and I think the pipe is a tuned type.
Only had it on the water twice so far and I am still experimenting with settings and trim etc.
Construction is Ply with a fibreglass interior lining.
It goes very well, throttles nicely and sits steady on the water at speed, though she banks a lot on turns.

Pics =











Thanks for looking

John in Chester ( in the West of the UK  :P )

 
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Prophet

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 08:15:28 PM »

I can tell you exactly what that is its a scratch build of a Fairly Huntsman 28/ or a Fairly swordsman 30 with the rear 'hatch', the hatch is a modifactaion, of the boat, check the fairly owners website for pic's of the boats as well as the variations of the cabin section.

This is my current build thread of the huntsman if your intrested lots of discussion of other variations.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25150.0
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triumphjon

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 08:44:28 PM »

i should say thats a fairey swordsman , with an additional aft cabin , unfortunatly due to your model only haveing a single shaft they tend to "bank" quite sharply when cornering ( the full size has twin shafts !)  my first model was a fairey huntsman 31 at 1/8th scale (46" long ) and powered by a hp61 glow engine this was followed by a fairey spearfish (33"long ) and powered by a merco 61 , great boats i used to use the spearfish for off shore racing ! 
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ghost123uk

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 09:14:02 PM »

Thanks for the input Prophet and Triumphjon  :-))

I had read your thread Prophet, whilst I was still "lurking" on this forum  :-)) (hope your finger is better !)

I also read (with envy at his skills and patience) Ramon's scratch built Huntsman too = very nice.

It was that rear hatch that had me puzzled, having looked on the Fairey Owners club site and various brokerage sites I had not seen one with that rear hatch affair.

My next jobs =
Glaze the cabin windows (for aesthetic and water inlet reasons !)
Experiment with props (I have a selection from S40 through to X55, first trials were with a S50) - what would you recommend ?
Experiment with the trim tab settings.
Generally have fun in front of a crowd of wine bar goers outside the "Local" on the canal basin in windy Chester  ok2

here it is =




Then a real ale or 2 to celebrate (he said full of optimism, but remembering ploughing the multi into the concrete canal bank at high speed when a plastic bag hooked up the rudder). p.s. = I do have insurance.

Regards

John in Chester (just north of the West Midlands  ok2  )
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Prophet

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 09:42:48 PM »

yup finger is much better bruised still but swelling has subsided so im back building now finishing up the springer.. adding to the post in a moment, then over the weekend i will be re-starting on the huntsman  :-))
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 10:19:52 PM »

where the boat pictures taken on the Dee  near Farndon  , and welcome

Peter
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ghost123uk

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 10:45:19 PM »


Thanks for the welcome Peter  :-)

The pics were taken at a very nice camp-site on shores of Bala lake.
I would have liked to have taken some pics of her on the move, but piloting the boat and taking pics at the same time would be a bit dodgy !
("Her indoors" is not good at either of those two functions either!!)

I do know the River in Farndon well, esp the remote bit at the end of the long lane, to the left, on the road back to Chester just as you leave Farndon = A very nice spot for a picnic and / or bird watching etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re props, I do enjoy experimenting, but would be interested to know what might be considered an average prop for this boat / engine combo ?



John (in Chester a bit West of Manchester  ok2 )
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Bill D203

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 06:16:25 AM »

I have danced at that pub. Im a morris dancer as wellas boater.
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tiggy_cat

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 02:27:11 PM »

Should keep the Morris Dancing quiet if I were you
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ghost123uk

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 02:35:21 PM »


I have a friend who is a Morris dancer.
Their lot black up their faces and wear bits of twigs n stuff in their hair and cloths and do lots of very earthy / pagan type stuff  :o
Some of it is quite scary, really !!

Ummm =


Re props, I do enjoy experimenting, but would be interested to know what might be considered an average prop for this boat / engine combo ?

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Bill D203

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 05:50:18 PM »

I just dance and drink more beer. FUN :-))
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ids987

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 07:44:45 PM »

Hi John,

By modern standards, as you probably know, it's a big engine for the boat. I think - even back in the day, that the .61 engines were more the province of the 48" version of the Huntsman and its variants. Although modern engines are significantly more powerful, this tends to be top end power moreso than torque, and your engine is probably quite "torquey". Single prop submerged drive in a deep vee is always interesting, and it's the torque roll which is the main challenge. If the S50 is similar to a P50 prop, the engine is probably quite lightly loaded. My old OPS .40 used to pull a P50 prop in a 3' plus multi boat - and scream. Your engine would probably quite happily pull a X50 - X55 prop, bit the extra pitch would make the torque roll even worse.
Tabs should help with the roll - though they may need to be further in. Outer tabs tend to be out of the water most of the time - except when you're turning. Of course, if it leans right over, the right tab may touch the water.
Huntsman plans usually put the rudder very close to the prop, and the swirl can make matters worse. Ballast can help, but enough ballast to straighten up at full throttle will make it lean left at part throttle. A longer rudder may help though. The lean means you will need left rudder to run straight. The longer the rudder, the more the leverage of the rudder "should" tend to help correct the roll. Similarly, perhaps a rudder which has a tab on the bottom (ie a longish rudder with a cutout - so it is not very wide for most of its length - but with a longer tab on the bottom - again so that you get leverage from lower down).
Shaft angle is key, but usually difficult to change. The steeper the angle, the more roll you will get. A flexi set up for parallel drive would get rid of most - but is definitely non-scale.

All the Best:
Ian   
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triumphjon

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 10:56:32 PM »

haveing owned a spearfish of simalar size , i used to use a x50 prop , or a mocom alloy one from prestwich models ( manchester ) unfortunatly i cant remember the sizes ,  it was nearly twenty years ago ! ive lots of fairey models being biult at present but now choose to run them as electric fast scale models instead . the roll is a charecter feature when useing these boats with a single shaft , a couple of members of my old club tried to improve the roll , useing trim tabs , a wider chine rail etc to little effect . if you look at the full sized boats you will notice the shaft angle is much steeper , with the prop much further to the rear of the hull , the engine in fact sits under the cockpit floor , with the rudders almost at the transom . as for your rear cabin yes its not strictly correct , but if you look at the swordsman they had something simalar , allbeit a little shallower in height and horizontal to the deck , so yours could be altered without haveing to rebiuld the complete cabin !  jon
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scoop

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2010, 12:25:32 AM »

I just dance and drink more beer. FUN :-))
And here's me thinking it was the beer that made you dance  {-) {-) {-) Now a drop or two of Tanglefoot should put a stop to all that dancing Bill

See you soon
Scoop
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 08:56:14 AM »

It looks like the one made from the Model boats plans, It a Swordsman in the 70 people made tanks from old 5 gallon oil cans  as they where tin plate and the cap was soldered  on top with the neck as a filler  (old fuel cans where used for smaller engines as well as brake fluid cans). the reason for the rear deck is the tank is to high  I used two smaller tanks on the floor at the rear giving me twp pints if needed so i could get the floor in the correct place, also Ic boats where not always true to scale as they took a hammering starting as it was pre starters and done with a cord or leather boot lace. does it sail high at the front ?

Peter
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ghost123uk

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2010, 09:47:42 AM »


Thanks for all that input folks = very interesting.

Firstly when I was saying S50, it is now obvious I should have said P50 (as in std pitch)
(I used to use the Mocom alloy props from PMB on the CMB powered multi, either 2023 or 2024)

Re the motor,
It is on the large size, but I like having power to spare  :o (and it is the one that came with it, so it can stay in  :-)) )

Re the rear decking,
Yes I did find some pics of what it should look like on the Fairey owners club site and at some point I might make it look a bit more "scale". (there are some great pics on that site  :-)) ) On mine the tank does look as if it was made from a brake fluid can or similar, but there is plenty of room to make the rear hatch more scale like.

Re trim & Props,
I have done the first, and as yet only, trials with a std pitch 50 and actually the torque roll in a straight line is not at all bad.
Also, at speed the boat did keep it's nose pretty well in the water and ran nice and flat, however the trim tabs did seem to have a lot of "down" on them and at that time I left them as they were, but I have now let them come up quite a way to see what effect they do have on the trim. = might be interesting, esp as the next "experiment" will be the X55 prop  :o

Re the rudder and shaft

Aye, I have seen the rudders with the extra length at the bottom on some Multi racers, this does have what looks like a pretty long, high aspect ratio rudder fitted, might experiment with other shapes at some point.

The shaft is a bit odd to me (might be just me there though) as it is a flexi that runs in a straight tube.
The angle is pretty shallow and a 55 prop just clears the hull (that's good isn't it ?)

Just after I bought the boat I replaced the shaft as the old one was a bit rough.
It is a non standard one and I got very good service from "Model Marine Supplies" in Torquay ( www.modelmarinesuppies.co.uk ) in supplying a custom one that was made and delivered all in 24 hours !

I lubed it with some light grease, but will remove it after each days use to re-lube and check it.
Comments on the shaft and lubing welcomed  :-)

Nice forum folks  :-))

Regards
John (to the East of N. Wales ;) )
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triumphjon

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 04:30:44 PM »

re ; shaft lube , i always used an outer shaft with a grease nipple at the top/ inboard end , a couple of pumps from a grease gun was sufficient to lube the inner shaft , also saves time in removeing the rudder & propshaft for servicing ! . on models i biuld now ive slightly offset the rudders to make propshaft removal simpler !
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ids987

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2010, 11:12:51 PM »

Apologies, I got the wrong end of the stick somewhere - and thought we were talking about leaning on the straights. My comments about rudder length and shape were based on that. I believe - by the same logic as my earlier comments, that a longer rudder, and a tab on the bottom, would probably make leaning into the turns worse.
Sorry, I really shouldn't try to do forum posts on the mobile.

Ian
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red181

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2010, 01:00:03 AM »

Hi Ghost,
some of this might help http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21584.0, its the full build of my Veron 42" Huntsman 28. There have bee a few Huntsman builds over the last year, but some had poor handling characteristics, which could have been due to replicating the original ic setup. I wont say mine is perfect, it isnt, but at least you can see some results.

The prop angle was reduced from standard angle, so like yours, a 55mm "x" will fit nice, however, whilst I appreciate there will be diifferences between ic and electric, at least you can see how mine handled. The 52.5mm induced torque roll, which was controllable, but you had to remember right hand turns at speed are a bit hairy! :}, left handers are sweet, but this size prop has a horrendous amp draw. 52.5mm was fine, but a modified 52.5mm with 1mm of each blade  trailing edge removed works very well. Obviously will not affect your ic setup. Weight distribution is very central in my boat, which weighs in with 6 lipo cells at 6.5kg, its all in the centre under the seats, just the rx, and battery pack for lights up front, and nothing in the rear. Rudder is towards rear, there is a noticable difference between rudder placement and prop angle on the precedent and veron models, even though the hulls are similar. Shaft is lubricated with minimal light oil, as I use aceteal and glacier bearings at prop end, these are water lubricated, and double ball races at motor endF
For me, stuffing grease in the tube on a fast boat isnt my preferred way to go, just induces drag, and will eventually spin off the shaft forming a funnel, then the grease gums up and does nothing, ok for slower revs I am sure, I tried this, and the shaft with oil will spin freely by blowing on the prop ok2

With regard to props, I this week tried a large 3 blade 55mm, and it virtually turned the boat over, but the amp draw was half, making it far more efficient, I hope to eventually after more testing buy a good quality prop shop 3 blade cleaver, probably 50mm. Dont have any trim tabs, but I am considering fitting a small wedge on the undersifde of the hull to stop the torque roll, could go slower, but then where is the fun in that!, hope that helps :-))
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ghost123uk

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Re: My new I.C. sport boat - but what is it ?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2010, 10:22:27 AM »

Apologies, I got the wrong end of the stick somewhere - and thought we were talking about leaning on the straights. My comments about rudder length and shape were based on that. I believe - by the same logic as my earlier comments, that a longer rudder, and a tab on the bottom, would probably make leaning into the turns worse.
Sorry, I really shouldn't try to do forum posts on the mobile.

Ian

Hey Ian, don't be apologising, as I said I have only had this on the water twice so far and that was only to get a quick impression of what it will & won't do. Just 2 x 5 minute runs. That was on the canal "dock basin" (pic as somewhere above ^^^), so when I get it on the proper boating lake (my local in at Gautby Road in Birkenhead) this weekend I might discover (and probably will from what I have read) that with a faster mixture setting, and an X55, it will roll like a "xxxxx" at full chat !!

@ Red181 - re your thread at http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21584.0

WOW :-)) - I have left a reply on that thread.

I am a bit concerned by all this talk of ball races.
My Multi racer had a full race PMB ball raced shaft but this new boat does not appear to have any real bearings as such at all.
The prop end of the flexi shaft has a 2.5"L x 1/4"D stainless part that appears to run straight into the prop tube.
I wonder how durable that will be  :o
Plus the flexi shaft at the motor end, though only exposed for 1/4" before it enters the prop tube, appears unsupported at the tube entry point ?

Mind you the boat is far from new and the current set-up must have worked for the previous owner...

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