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Author Topic: free plans  (Read 17408 times)

tigertiger

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Re: free plans
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2010, 05:43:48 am »

COPYRIGHT - A MODEL BOAT MAYHEM POSITION STATEMENT.

From MARTIN, the Site Owner.

From time to time the issue of copyright and potential abuse arises. It is important for me to make it clear that Mayhem does not support any infringement of copyright. Mayhem facilities must not be used to further copyright abuse.

Copyright is intended to protect the originators value in the material. To breach that right is stealing.

A polite request to many copyright holders will often result in permission to copy. A modest quotation from copyright material for research, personal use or to illustrate an issue is normally permitted.

Please ensure that you do not involve Model Boat Mayhem in copyright infringement.
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allanb131

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Re: free plans
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2010, 08:38:01 am »

Hi John, this might help.

At the end of the day it all comes down to interpretation and there seem to be many grey areas.
The main point however seems to be if you are going to gain financially which in this case is not your intention.

When is permission required to use third party material?
As a general rule, permission should be sought from the rightsholder to reproduce any “substantial parts” of any copyright work.  This includes literary works (eg text and tables), as well as all photographs, slides, line illustrations, or other artwork. Whether or not the material that is being reproduced is a “substantial part” is a subjective test that depends both on the significance of the copied material and the quantity of material used.
 
   When is clearance of rights not required?
•   When the material is not subject to copyright protection.
o    Copyright protects only original (i.e. creative) materials (NB: threshold for creativity is low).
o    Copyright protects only the particular form of expression of a work, and not the ideas or facts contained in it.  So, for example, a fact in an individual article would not be protected, although if it were arranged in a table in a particularly unusual way, that table would benefit from copyright protection.
•   Fair Use/Fair Dealing (varies by country)
o    Includes copying on a limited basis for purposes such as education and research, known as “fair use” in the US or “fair dealing” in the UK.
o    “Fair use” involves the analysis of a number of factors (including the purpose and character of the use, the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole, and the effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work)
o    Prior to relying on “fair use” instead of obtaining permission, your publisher should be consulted
•   “Public Domain”
o    These materials have no copyright protection and can be reproduced without permission.
o    Includes all materials for which the copyright term has expired or in relation to which the copyright owners have chosen to release the materials into the public domain, and materials prepared by officers or employees of the US government as part of their official duties.
 

   Use of photographs and illustrations
•   For photographs and illustrations, the publisher will not always own the reproduction rights; rather, the photographer or illustrator might have retained these rights.  If the source from which the material is borrowed does not indicate who owns reproduction rights, the publisher’s response to a request for permission will often indicate who does.
•   Photographs or illustrations of fine art objects (sculpture, painting, decorative arts, antiquities, etc.) may be subject to copyright, and permission may need to be obtained from the holder of the reproduction rights in the photograph (usually the photographer, the publisher or the museum which owns the object).
 
Regards Allan






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dodgy geezer

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Re: free plans
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2010, 09:13:23 am »

COPYRIGHT - A MODEL BOAT MAYHEM POSITION STATEMENT.

From MARTIN, the Site Owner.

....Copyright is intended to protect the originators value in the material. To breach that right is stealing.


I do wish people would stop using that term. Breaching copyright is NOT stealing - they are two quite distinct crimes. Supporters of a strong copyright regime like to conflate the two, but this is blatant propaganda, intended to make people forget that copyright has two aspects - the right of the creator to a limited monopoly on the use of an expression of an idea, AND then the later right of society at large to make use of that expression for free when it enters the Public Domain. Copyright is NOT only about the 'originators value', and trying to pretend that a copyright breach is stealing when it is not completely ignores this latter point.

It would be much more appropriate for Mayhem to say 'To breach that right is against the law'.   

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Circlip

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Re: free plans
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2010, 09:42:40 am »

Quote
Would be nice though., just think out of 4767 members if each active and able (ie scanner etc) could scan a couple of copys it would soon be done. These scans then passed onto MB / MHS (members on the forum could have access) and then the worlds your oyster...I know its unlikely to ever happen but then they say we landed on the moon once    so you never know.

 This cropped up on another forum in that some members offered to do a "Free" service to scan a complete set of a specialist mag for the benefit of the original publishers. The set would have fit easily onto 1 DVD and the intention was that the publishers could sell this for the benefit of all at a reasonable price. With ANY material, there is ALWAYS those who will copy and try to make a fast buck (B******s) but given that it would have been done on the cheap (FREE) by dedicated enthusiasts, the resale costs could have been kept to a minimum. The offer was declined, as it transpired that the publishers (No doubt at great expense) had them "Professionally" scanned (And what a pigs ear THEY made of it) so that a yearly subscription only service is provided. VERY short sighted and stupid but we live in "Commercial" times.

  Sadly, due to short sightedness and legalities, many tombs of wisdom will be lost due to crumbling and disintigrating paper copies of the originals which, although it does take time and effort to scan and edit, is ultimately worth the effort. The two feet of "Model Maker" I gave to someone whom I thought would value them still cuts deep, dumped at the local tip due to family problems but Computers and scanning were far into the future for domestic use.

   Thank heavens that the cottage NON industry of giving someone a quick "Flash" to help them out is alive and well and thriving,  %) PM's work wonderfully  :-)) and "Dropbox" is a VERY useful service.


   Regards   Ian.

  
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The long Build

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Re: free plans
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2010, 12:47:43 pm »

The two feet of "Model Maker" I gave to someone whom I thought would value them still cuts deep, dumped at the local tip due to family problems but Computers and scanning were far into the future for domestic use.

My Piles  :}  are protected under a prenuptial agreement   <*<



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Prophet

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Re: free plans
« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2010, 02:57:57 pm »

In regards to selling a free plan or something copyrighted what do you lot think of this....

http://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/Easy_Build_Designs.html

scroll down to a plan called Betsy Bev now first thing that strikes me is that hull, its a modified Springer! superstructure is meaningless for that plan, clearly its not a springer the plan offered is modified so I'm not sure where it stands in copyright law but it is a direct rip off of an existing free plan charging £7.50 a pop....

So if thats the case and this can be got away with then the best way to sell plans you have purchased is to redraw them and make a modification to the plan in such a way that its not noticeable or the part you modified won't effect a build to much, and sell it on as your own, with out fear of copyright infringement!
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malcolmfrary

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Re: free plans
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2010, 03:57:42 pm »

Presumably the Betsy Bev was a "freebie" plan with a particular magazine issue.  Printing however many thousand for inclusion with that mag is not a particularly expensive process per item, and no doubt the magazine proprietors would be able to verify that whatever copyrights that were involved were covered.  However, the springer is a hull size and shape specification rather than a design, whatever goes on top, and inside, is for the builder to decide. It is perfectly reasonable to publish an alternative superstructure drawing.
£7.50 seems perfectly reasonable for storing for an indeterminate time and printing individually.  Presumably the author gets his cut from this procedure, as he should, to encourage him to have another go. 
This redrawing business.  Street plan makers have a habit of including, within their maps, the occasional little street that doesn't actually exist.  This is to act as an individual signature, and serves to convince the judge that the map that the originators are not being paid for was produced by them, but someone who wanted the money without the work involved had taken the short cut of copying without doing the work and being involved in the associated expense.  Much the same happens with drawings.  Copying something that you have paid for for your own use should not be a problem.  Copying and selling on without any thought of recompense to the guy who did the work is, and in a relatively small world like model boating, word gets round quickly, and lazy copying is often detectable.
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Perkasaman2

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Re: free plans
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2010, 04:44:28 pm »

Hi Prophet, the 'Betsy Bev' is a plan supplied by Traplet Publications Ltd, the owners of MMI (Marine Modelling International) which is another monthly magazine for model boat enthusiasts. This springer plan by Maurice Mould may have been included with their magazine and it's currently in their plan catalogue. Here's their site - scroll down for marine plans and look in their 'easy - build' collection:  

 https://shop.traplet.com/plans/

It's very easy to get confused.  :}
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GG

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Re: free plans
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2010, 05:26:02 pm »

As the "Betsy Bev" plan was published in the April/May issue of Marine Modelling and I can find no reference to the "Springer" design until well into the 21st century, could it be the other way around and the Springer is the "direct rip off"?
No it couldn't as even the most cursory examination of the two designs would show that they are quite different. So, all you Springer owners can sleep at night, you have not contributed to copyright theft and should not expect a knock on the door tonight.
Glynn Guest
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Arrow5

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Re: free plans
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2010, 05:46:25 pm »

April/May what year  Glynn?
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Jindivik

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Re: free plans
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2010, 06:55:54 pm »

Published in 1988!
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GG

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Re: free plans
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2010, 07:09:40 pm »

mea culpa, 1988 it was!
Glynn Guest
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Perkasaman2

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Re: free plans
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2010, 02:09:15 pm »

We're all sinners. :}
For general information, the 'British Library' is a repository for ALL printed works in the English (British) language including newspapers, magazines etc. They are likely to have most, if not all, model boat magazines archived in their huge facilities. All UK public libraries are linked to this national archive.

http://www.bl.uk/
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dreadnought72

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Re: free plans
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2010, 03:45:00 pm »

Fascinating legal minefield this.

Quote
Unauthorised duplication contravenes applicable laws

...Says my copy of the Anatomy of the Ship Dreadnought book.

I take this to mean that I can't (quite rightly) do what a Russian website has done - it has some remarkably "familiar" images on it - but does it mean that Conway Maritime Press own my build of this ship, since it is, effectively, an unauthorised duplication of the contents?  %%

Andy
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Perkasaman2

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Re: free plans
« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2010, 07:30:15 pm »

They cannot be regarded owner's of the 'fruits' of your lawful research. You could have obtained/looked at their book via a library? (Libraries enjoy special exemptions in UK copyright rules.)  :-)
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Martin13

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Re: free plans
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2010, 12:18:18 am »

I paid My Hobbystore 15 GBP for a plan including postage that was a freebie in the Model Boats Feb 2004 issue. I'm now minus 15 GBP and no plan >>:-(
Fortunately a fellow Aussie member "Gra" has offered his copy for free....could have bought a few beers with 15 quid >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Yesterday I met fellow Aussie member "Gra" and now have his copy of Jenny Sue 2 along with the Feb 2004 Model Boats mag on loan. Yippee O0
Still no sign of the MHS store bought plans or my 15 quid {:-{

Martin du
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