Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Thank God for Scottish Law,  (Read 5335 times)

Wasyl

  • Guest
Thank God for Scottish Law,
« on: September 23, 2010, 12:03:24 pm »

Now that I,ve got too much time on my hands,I find myself scanning the Dailies for interesting stories,here,s one i spotted today,which,make me thank God,that English Law does not apply to Scotland,
In the Daily Express today,regarding....... "Squatters Rights"
A,72 year old man in Barking East London, takes his two Alsatians for a walk in the park,unfortunately for him, he fell ill,so he stayed at a friends house for 2 days,On returning to his council house,in which he,s lived for 4 years he is confronted by a note pinned to his front door
                                                             -Legal Warning-
                                                  Section 6 Criminal Law Act 1977
                                                  As amended by Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
                                                              -Take Notice-
                                                  That we live in this property,it is our home and we intend to stay here
                                                  That at all times there is at least one person in this property
                                                  That any entry or attempt to enter into this property without our
                                                  permission is a criminal offence as any one of us who is in physical
                                                  possession is opposed to entry without our permission

Whilst he was away,for those two days,a Lithuanian family forced entry to his house,changed the locks,threw all of his belongings into the front garden,When confronted by the rightful tenant,this "family" claimed they  were paying an agent 500 per month to stay there,When the lawful tenant went to the Police,he was informed,that they could not take action, as it was "a Civil Matter"He also went to Barking & Dagenham Council,his landlords,..only to be told that they did not have the power to evict,.apparently this kind of squatting is being done by unscrupulous estate agents,and is now quite widespread,

Up here in Scotland,there are no squatters rights,if someone breaks into your house and there still there when you get home,Then,they get arrested,and locked up,

Wullie
                                                     
                                                     
Logged

The long Build

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 12:45:54 pm »

Interesting that the Have a say for this article on the papers site is not available.
Logged

pugwash

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 12:56:01 pm »

Wullie, I don't know anything about civil law but as far as criminal law goes the Scottish system is far superior.
I speak from the experience of being a Polis iin Glasgow is the old City Force and in two English forces.  It was
hard work up there in the early 70's but far better than the system south of the border.

Geoff
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,898
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 01:53:24 pm »

Having lived in England and Scotland, I have to say that Scottish Law rocks.

Where else can you suggest someone's guilty (though you can't quite prove it) by invoking the "Not Proven" verdict in court cases?  {-)

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Prophet

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 02:00:04 pm »

One way to cure the problem, get the local yobs to break in and drag them out then walk in when its vacated this way you can reclaim the propity.

 If you ask me anyone crude enough to basically steal your home asks for everything they get.
 I wouldn't suggest anyone trying this but if i was placed in that situation i would get my brothers (who are all 6 foot and built like brick **** houses) and there mates and bust the door down and teach them a valuable lesson in manners,
This county is going down the pan pretty quick if anyone can walk into your house and claim it while your away under squatters rights, its an outright crock and it goes to show that your tax is not being spent wisely by the police force clearly its all going in the fat big wigs pockets as bonuses when in fact they should be dragging the squatters outta your home that you pay for and have signed a legal document stating your a tenant or home owner and you have the legal right to live there not some prats who think its this country's a free ride.
 If i didn't have a family to think about with the consequences of my actions causing them distress or worse then if that happend to me there would be a few body buried in the back yard. these kind of incidents make me so mad.   >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(  >>:-( <*< <*< <*< <*<

if its a estate agent thats aiding in this then teach them a lesson, once there building is empty break in change the locks and put the same notice up on the door, i bet you with in a few hours you be dragged of in police cart and in court the next day, so why you and not them?

pfft if this was the USA you could shoot them on site of your property for trespassing! for crists sake this country needs sorting out before the public finally get fed up enough and start riots but if thats what it takes to sort this dump out them im up for a rally and some pompous rich twit govement worker head bashing  <*< <*< <*<
Logged

Wasyl

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 02:03:47 pm »

Although I am in favour of Scots Law,as opposed to English Law, "Not Proven "should be banned,its a ludicrous law,that sometimes make a mockery of the justice system,..there was a case not so many years ago,whereby a guy killed a woman,..everyone new he had done it there was a lot of hard evidence,..but he got off with a Not Proven, because of an indecisive jury,and the Not Proven law,

Wullie
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,345
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 02:21:29 pm »

Yes, but in
England、
they would have been found not guilty (i.e. innocent).
I think not proven is better.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

DavieTait

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,130
  • Location: Fraserburgh
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 02:22:08 pm »

Not Proven verdict means that there is substantial evidence that you are guilty but not beyond doubt , it allows for someone found not proven to be taken back to court on the same charge should new evidence come to light , if you like it is already possible to get around the 1 trial law already from my understanding of it
Logged
Davie Tait,
Scotland

Wasyl

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 02:24:48 pm »

Yeah,well, it can work both ways,I suppose,...but now that the Gov are to abolish Double Jeopardy,there will be no hiding place for the more serious criminals

Wullie
Logged

Wasyl

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 02:51:53 pm »

Prophet,I wholeheartedly agree with where you,re coming from,these kind of people are parasites,but until the laws of the land are changed then it will contiue, The major stumbling block is as i see it,"they have human rights"...well in my eye,s they don,t Britain is too soft,when it comes to immgiration,we pussy foot around the real issues,..You just have to look at the cases recently highlited  in the papers,..whereby a family from Somalia were living in "cramped accomadation"in Camden Town 3 beds, but they did,nt like the area, so they upped sticks and got  5 bed house in Kensington,..rent 1000 per week,..paid for by Housing Benefit,..its Nuts,but the laws are to be changed in April when the ceiling for rent will be dropped to 400 per week,..here in Scotland the max HB payment is 375 per month for a couple,

Wullie
Logged

gondolier88

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,351
  • www.coniston-regatta.co.uk
  • Location: Crake Valley, Cumbria
    • Coniston Regatta
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 05:06:20 pm »


                                                 
                                                  That any entry or attempt to enter into this property without our
                                                  permission is a criminal offence as any one of us who is in physical
                                                  possession is opposed to entry without our permission

Whilst he was away,for those two days,a Lithuanian family forced entry to his house,changed the locks,threw all of his belongings into the front garden,When confronted by the rightful tenant,this "family" claimed they  were paying an agent 500 per month to stay there,When the lawful tenant went to the Police,he was informed,that they could not take action, as it was "a Civil Matter"He also went to Barking & Dagenham Council,his landlords,..only to be told that they did not have the power to evict,.apparently this kind of squatting is being done by unscrupulous estate agents,and is now quite widespread...

Wullie

Forced entry IS criminal and they can be arrested for it- another media hyped innacuratre article- for goodness sake it told you this in the note that 'they' supposedly left on the door that it is!!!

'Squatters Rights' only applies to residencies or properties which are gained entry into while empty and are claimed under possession law- if the building is obviously in residence and proof thereof is evident they are not squatters they are vandals/thieves/trespassers.

Greg

Logged
Don't get heated...get steamed up!

Wasyl

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 06:20:30 pm »

Well Greg,you go out and get yourself a copy of the Daily Express,and read it for yourself,
as for forced entry,"forced entry"is only a crime if you get caught doing it,but if there is no visible sign that the door has been forced,and the locks have been changed, then the "I found the premises unlocked" kicks in,and this is the way round it,And once these Parasites are in,then the Law favours them,thats the way it is,furthermore, if they have any brains,which in most cases they do,they get the Electricity put in their name,..so it can,t get switched off,the same goes for the Gas,etc etc these Parasites are switched on nowadays, unlike the hippies of the 60,s/70,s who squatted until eveything ran out then they were evicted,I should know,I was one of them,...Its not everyone who can say they lived in Sloane Square,..just off Kings Road in Chelsea,for nigh on 9months,...and i had a job,with a wholesale cheese importer,Crowsons in Farington Rd EC1,and yes i,m quite an expert when it comes to tasting and identifying cheese,In 1971 Crowsons had at any one time 250 different varieties in stock

those were the days,..Nice address No rent, and a cupboard & fridge full of ecpensive cheese,
and before any one says,...yes i was a bit of a parasite...a working one {-)

Wullie

Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,134
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 07:30:12 pm »

Glad I left England.  Finnish law is much more balck and white.

If someone did that in Finland they wouldnt have a leg to stand on.  And the Police here are not the namby pamby type you find in England.  They say "Jump" you dont even ask "How high" you just do it.  They command a lot of respect here unlinke England
Oh and they carry guns lol

Law of tresspass here is very black and white... You may use reasonable force to remove the person from your property and "reasonable force" is clearly defined in Finnish law
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

Wasyl

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 08:01:48 pm »

I agree,..there should be no pussy footing around,..I lived in Germany for a while,and its like what you have in Finland,..the Police command respect from all,..but of course not from the criminal element,but that goes for almost every country,What I liked about living in Germany,was,..The man in the street was not afraid to tell you if you were doing something wrong,unlike here,where its like the 3 Monkeys,whenever anything happens,
I lived in Berlin among other places,and can honestly say,I felt safer walking at night in Berlin,than I did in my home town of Dundee,..Sad.

And before anyone says,Germany is a Police state,its Not,..given the opportuinity i,d move there tomorrow,..great country,with friendly people, :-))

Wullie
Logged

yorkiej

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 12:48:37 am »

Yeah,well, it can work both ways,I suppose,...but now that the Gov are to abolish Double Jeopardy,there will be no hiding place for the more serious criminals

Wullie
Double Jeopardy was abolished last year. A Mother from the NE of England pushed it until it was abolished. Her Daughter's murderer was given a Life Sentence (A Joke, Life doesn't mean life here) after a second trial.
I apologise to the Mother for not remembering her name after beating down so many barriers to get Justice for her Daughter.
(Especially as obtaining Justice seems so far from normality in England now).
 <*< <*< <*< :police: :police: 
Logged

gondolier88

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,351
  • www.coniston-regatta.co.uk
  • Location: Crake Valley, Cumbria
    • Coniston Regatta
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 07:20:45 am »

Its not everyone who can say they lived in Sloane Square,..just off Kings Road in Chelsea,for nigh on 9months,...and i had a job,with a wholesale cheese importer,Crowsons in Farington Rd EC1,and yes i,m quite an expert when it comes to tasting and identifying cheese,In 1971 Crowsons had at any one time 250 different varieties in stock

those were the days,..Nice address No rent, and a cupboard & fridge full of ecpensive cheese,
and before any one says,...yes i was a bit of a parasite...a working one {-)

Wullie

I don't know which part of that I like best- the no rent or lots of cheese! :o

Greg
Logged
Don't get heated...get steamed up!

bikemec

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2010, 10:37:16 am »

in England the gent in the above tale would be classed as a "displaced residential occupier" and therefore could force entry and evict the others,
the police could only get involved to prevent a breach of the peace

think there may be some poor reporting or something missing from the story
Logged

geoff p

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2010, 12:33:39 pm »

About thirty years ago my parents' neighbours, Paignton, Devon,  suffered the same nonsense: came home from holiday and had been locked out of their own home by squatters.  The police said they could do nothing and that any attempt to force an entry to their own home whilst a squatter was in the house would be illegal and would be punished.  The neighbours had to stay at an hotel until told that no-one was home, then rush to break-in and change the locks.

It appears the law hasn't improved in the last thirty years.

As Greg points out, forced entry is criminal but ... only if you are caught-in-the-act, and these squatters clearly were not so caught.

The Daily Mail version of the story also mentions phony estate agents who, presumably, had keys to let the squatters in.  These are the real criminals but who cares ..... ?

Geoff
Logged

snowwolflair

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2010, 12:55:11 pm »

Yes, but in
England、
they would have been found not guilty (i.e. innocent).
I think not proven is better.

In Scotland you also get a "No case to answer for" verdict which is as equally usefull in the opposite sense.
Logged

pugwash

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2010, 01:29:06 pm »

Sorry my Mr Snowy - you are wrong this state of "no case to answer" is not a verdict it can be claimed
by the defendant and then argued by the barristers - judge makes the decision and either stoips trial and
defendant is released or the trial continues if judge considers prosecution is making a case.
This is part of the prcess of law and is used both sides of the border.  If during the trial it is obvious
prosecutions evidence is weak the judge may direct no case to answer and the trial stops - this does not
go near the jury  for verdict.  Other alternative is the judge can direct the jury to find a defendant Not Guilty
due to some legal technicality i.e. failing to adhere to correct precedure during arrest or at the station in the
case of drunk driving etc the list is endless - Again - used both sides of the border.
Geoff
Logged

Roger in France

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2010, 03:47:36 pm »

In fact a submission of "No case to answer" can be made in the lower courts and is not peculiar to judge and jury trails. It will also, frequently be followed by a request for costs against the prosecutor by the defence if upheld.

It is a feature of many legal systems and not peculiar to English or Scottish law but may well appear under different names and derives, as far as my memory of my law studies goes, from a basic principle of Roman law.

Roger in France
Logged

ooyah/2

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2010, 02:54:38 pm »


Hi Wullie,
I have followed this post from start and read every bodies posts  but you seem to be to a bit hypocritical in that you admit to being a PARASITE  yourself, not only have you enjoyed free digs and no doubt Elec & Gas and with your outlook on being a PARASITE,  It's  O.K. as long as you were working.
One would ask with your outlook on life and regarding the Cupboard & Fridge full of expensive Cheeses, did your employer pay you in cheese or did it fall off the back of a lorry? if so that would make you some thing else !!
Before making these statements I think that you should have your brain in gear before posting such condemning a statement, maybe GRAMPIANS finest will come knocking at your door and feel your collar.
You can't get WEE PARASITES or BIG PARASITES ---------A PARASITES A PARASITE !!!!!!!
Well Greg,you go out and get yourself a copy of the Daily Express,and read it for yourself,
as for forced entry,"forced entry"is only a crime if you get caught doing it,but if there is no visible sign that the door has been forced,and the locks have been changed, then the "I found the premises unlocked" kicks in,and this is the way round it,And once these Parasites are in,then the Law favours them,thats the way it is,furthermore, if they have any brains,which in most cases they do,they get the Electricity put in their name,..so it can,t get switched off,the same goes for the Gas,etc etc these Parasites are switched on nowadays, unlike the hippies of the 60,s/70,s who squatted until eveything ran out then they were evicted,I should know,I was one of them,...Its not everyone who can say they lived in Sloane Square,..just off Kings Road in Chelsea,for nigh on 9months,...and i had a job,with a wholesale cheese importer,Crowsons in Farington Rd EC1,and yes i,m quite an expert when it comes to tasting and identifying cheese,In 1971 Crowsons had at any one time 250 different varieties in stock

those were the days,..Nice address No rent, and a cupboard & fridge full of ecpensive cheese,
and before any one says,...yes i was a bit of a parasite...a working one {-)

Wullie


Logged

Arrow5

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,881
  • Location: Scottish Highlands
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2010, 03:39:27 pm »

Grampian`s finest ?  Whit ur they daen` in that neck o` the wids ? :police:  Loast again !
Logged
..well can you land on this?

ooyah/2

  • Guest
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2010, 03:44:58 pm »

Hi Arrow,  Yer possibly right, but some Polisman could come and feel Wullies collar, I'll fin oot on Wed at Glesga Richmond whare Wullie bides.
George.
Logged

DavieTait

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,130
  • Location: Fraserburgh
Re: Thank God for Scottish Law,
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2010, 04:04:23 pm »

I wouldn't rely on Grampians "finest" just now , at any one time there's only 6 to 8 cops on duty to cover from Pennan to Crimond and as far inland as New Pitsligo , somewhere in the region of 20,000 people. Taken them 20 years to make any inroad into the drug dealers up here and they're 18 years too late to really put a stop to it now.
Logged
Davie Tait,
Scotland
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up