Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship  (Read 12136 times)

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« on: September 26, 2010, 01:41:40 PM »

Hi all.

Been struggling with what to do for my first model boat for a while now. I needed something simple to start off with, but also something I actually had an interest in so I wouldn't lose interest in the build.

Finally I found the perfect first build plan for me in the new MMI Plans and Construction Guide: Clive Halliwell's Lord Clive Plan (MAR3472). The plan interests me as I am fascinated by the engineering evolutions that abounded in the late Victorian period and not just in ship design and naval tactics.tar
The decision was also sealed by the Victorian colour scheme of red, white and buff/ochre lending to an attractive ship.

The build is similar in style to Dreadstar's Vosper Corvette and Type 24 builds elsewhere on this forum.

Anyway, on with the actual build.

So far I'm making slow progress, having put together the hull bottom, bulkheads, stempiece and inwhales. Now waiting for the glue to dry. According to Forum rules, there is a pic below.

Tomorrow (possibly this evening, depending how the glue dries  ok2) I will need to start attaching the hull sides. I must say I am a bit daunted by this prospect: after the straight-sided sections, I'm thinking the sections of wood that need to be shaped around the bow and stern will be difficult. I hope I don't get too big a gap between the hull sides and hull bottom.

With a bewildering number of fillers on the market, is there anything that people can particularly recommend. I have plenty of Ronseal 2 part wood filler left over from DIY jobs.

Also, when it comes to waterproofing the hull, what exactly is this "sanding sealer" I hear everyone talking about. Is it a brand, or just a collective term for many hobby or DIY products that could fit the bill. And does the whole boat need treating with it, IE to make it waterproof and get a good surface for painting?

Anyway, the pic...

Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,219
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 03:23:44 PM »

It looks like a nice project from the easybuid range of plans.

I look forward to seeing more.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Circlip

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,735
  • Location: North of Watford, South of Hadrians wall
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 03:47:04 PM »

Try this as a finishing op GVJ.

 Scan down to the posting by FLJ

Quote
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7710.msg75321#msg75321

 To bend sheet Balsa easily you can soak it in a liquid ammonia bath (Outside the house) and bend and clamp it to suit the curves. As you're using Balsa as the construction, you would be better letting pieces in rather than trying to fill big gaps with a "Filler".

  Sanding sealer is a generic term and is only a talc in suspension in "Dope" (Clear Cellulose).

  Regards  Ian.
Logged
You might not like what I say, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
 
What I said is not what you  think you heard.

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 04:37:32 PM »

Thanks for the info,

I'm waiting for the straight sections to dry at the moment, so no bending for a couple of days.

Have read FLJs tips. Hopefully be able to find a commercial sanding sealer easily enough. Don't want to make my own until I know what it's meant to be like... Very new to this, not built anything other than Airfix kits and scenery for model railways. They don't have to quite as robust seeing as they never go outdoors. Therefore I usually end up with very fragile cardl hut/houses/bridges and the like. So I am not to used to working with wood, nor with anything that actually has to function, operate or indeed float!

Thanks again.
Logged

Dreadstar

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 12:24:55 AM »

If you are using 1/8" balsa for the sides,I would sheet the sides from the bend of the stern to the bow as a one piece unit. The stern section will need to be plated in the vertical plane,but not the bow. This in my opinion should be a lot easier to do than sheeting the bow in the vertical plane,plus,the resulting bow should be a lot stronger.

  Like you,I'd never worked in wood before either,but I found that this way of plating the sides seems to work better. :-))
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 10:03:54 AM »

Thanks Dreadstar,

I put the second hull side on this morning before work, so will be glueing the bow and stern sections tonight. You got there just in time!
The build is very similar to your corvette and type 24, so I shall do as you say.

Will update the pics tonight. 

Cheers,
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 11:25:39 AM »

For those of you wondering... And to see by just how much I miss the mark!, here's what she should look like at the end:

https://www.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=3243
Logged

Dreadstar

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 11:31:33 AM »

I'll be building one of these myself next month,though I'll be modifying the plan,because these ships were actually double ended i.e. they didn't have rounded sterns.The only downside to this is that the ship will steer like a pig when going astern.It's going to be interesting to see whether or not I can manage to incorporate a reasonable steering set-up in this model,and I'll be using CH's stepped stern as in my other builds too.

 I'm glad that you've decided to start on a simple,yet interesting ship as your first build.Your ships boats and davits can be purchased from Reade models at a very reasonable price too,as can the air intake vents.

Keep up the good work Graf

David.
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 01:23:33 PM »

Eeek! Don't go showing up my build! ;)

She is a beautiful ship, and even as a simple model it looks very nice.
I'll be very interested to see your modifications to the plan. I realised it wasn't exactly an accurate representation of the class, but I'm not going to start chopping and changing plans just yet... Well, maybe a longer upper deck overlapping the gun turrets and a second funnel to make it look more like HMS Dreadnought (1875).

Feel free to post any details or pics of your build on this thread if you like David, it's all a learning curve and experiment for me is this build.

Is there an advantage to the CH stepped stern design then? I must admit, I didn't like cutting the hull bottom and 'snapping' it upwards. Although it was very easy i suppose, which was what I wanted after all.

GVJ
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 06:25:37 PM »

OK, I give up...

How is it possible to join the two, grain-up sections of balsa to the straight hull sides?
Have tried PVA with reinforced scrap balsa (held with clothes pags) but it doesn't look like it'll work. Can't get the pressure on the joints.

Also, I imagined i'd need to get this joint bonded and dry before actually trying to bend the wood around the bow tomorrow. Is that correct?
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 06:38:04 PM »

If this works, I'll be amazed...
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 10:59:02 AM »

Well, the glue has set and seems to be pretty tough and doesn't give way along the thin join when I bend to wood around the bow and stern: consider me amazed. I was sure the bond would break under the stress of bending.

Next problem is I'm going to have some fairly significant gaps between the hull sides and hull bottom around the bow area.
I half expected this would happen. I'll try and let in some thin pieces of balsa to seal it up a bit.

Will get photos up tonight when I finish work.
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,891
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 12:21:17 PM »

I've said it before - I love PVA on balsa. Open-pored wood slurps the stuff in, and once set it's tougher than wood. Looking forward to more of this build!

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 11:15:17 PM »

Sorry for the lack of pics, Forgot we had people over for tea tonight so have been kept busy.

Got the hull sides bent around the bow. There are a couple of gaps, as expected.

As a learning point, I made the reinforced tabs holding the hull joins too long and they are actually interfering with the lines of the bow. IE, where the hull sides are two layers of wood thick, they don't bend.

All will become clear with pics tomorrow...
Logged

Edward Pinniger

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
  • Location: Berkshire, UK
    • Plastic Ship Kit Previews
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 02:50:34 PM »

I'll definitely be watching this one with interest, as this is one of my favourite eras of warship design! My first attempt at ship scratchbuilding was a 1/96 waterline of HMVS Cerberus, built about 4 years ago - I'm thinking of building the same ship as a 1/48 R/C model some time in the future. Ideally I'd like to build HMS Devastation or one of its sisters, but I don't think there's any source of plans for these ships other than the National Maritime Museum (very pricey).
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2010, 03:11:36 PM »

Edward,

You're right, there isn't much to go on with regard to warships of this era... And what an era! I love the evolution of the classic wooden-hulled broadside ship, into the experimentation with ironclad warships and breastwork monitors, finally evolving into the post-dreadnoughts we all know today. Gotta love this late Victorian period for innovation and technological advancements.

If you want the plan Edward, it came free with the MMI plans/construction special, which was 5.99 as oppose to 7.50 to order a reprint. You also get a detailed build guide in the text of the magazine (though, unless you're a complete newbie like me, you probably won't need it).
The plan most closely resembles the cyclops class.

I think Dreadstar had some issues with the stern shape too, for the purists amongst you. Believe it or wikipedia have some elevation and deck plans for a few ships of this era. Nothing you could build from, mind you, but it would give you an idea if you wanted to alter the plan.

I think, with a little imagination, it could be adapted to construct various ships from the era such as Devastation, Dreadnought (1875) and inflexible. Personally I'm going to make mine look like Dreadnought, mainly by extending the upper deck and adding a second funnel... It won't exactly be a scale representation of her, but hey... At 1:128 scale and with it bring my fist time it'll be enough to convince myself when she's 50 yards out on the boating pond!

Cheers chaps.
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2010, 05:42:35 PM »

OK,

The progress so far...

The hull panels are bent around the bow. You can see what I was talking about with regard to the gaps in the second pic.

Also, there are a couple of splits in the wood where the reinforcements are. I think the wood has not been able to flex appropriately across it's grain. The extra stresses have caused the wood to split. To be honest, I'm not really pleased with this.

I'm at the tricky point where I decide to carry on and complete the hull paneling, hoping that sealer and paint with cover it. Or whether it's best to rip them off and start again, hoping to get a slightly better finish.

Logged

Dreadstar

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2010, 05:01:59 PM »

If you look at my type 24 build,which was supposed to be built using the vertical grain method,you'll see what i meant by sheeting the side in a oner. It should be possible to do this model the same way,which will be the approach that I'll use on my model.
 I've just picked up the balsa,rudder and drive train for this build today,though my model shop only stocks 4" wide sheets,so I'll probably just make her 4" wide instead. I know that this'll make her slightly narrower that yours,but I'm lazy that way. I'm just going for a single prop drive,using a 385 motor with a Raboesh 25mm 3-blade prop,running on a 6V 4.5A gel cell. When you consider how slow these ships were,I think that this should supply almost scale speed.
  Keep up the good work Graf,I'm looking forward to the rest of this build. :-))
 
 David.
Logged

joppyuk

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2010, 07:32:37 PM »

I shall be following this build with interest, as I have a 1/144th Devastation on the drawing board at the moment, to start construction in a couple of months. I picked up this plan to give me a few hints.
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 04:22:29 PM »

Been making slow progress due to having to fit other DIY jobs in.

Have the final stern hull section in place and drying now.

In the morning I'll trim the hull sides at the stern, as the sides still sit below the raised section of hull bottom.
Then I'll level the sides on the top so that they are ready to take the deck, and generally fill, sand, shape, fill, sand etc. until I get a nice clean shape.

Thanks for the tips, I'll definitely be sheeting the hull sides in a single sheet if I do another. Looks a lot less hassle, and it has given a much neater finish than mine.

Cheers,

Logged

Edward Pinniger

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
  • Location: Berkshire, UK
    • Plastic Ship Kit Previews
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2010, 04:01:02 PM »

Definitely looks like the hull is taking shape - looks a lot neater than my first attempt at building a hull like this!

I did think of buying the MMI issue with the "Clive" plans in, but as I want to build a fully detailed scale model, they probably wouldn't be of much use (I can get the basic shape of the hull, superstructure etc. from the drawings in warship reference books - it's the smaller details and fittings that are the problem. Unfortunately the NMM seem to be the only source of plans for Royal Navy ships of this era. The French plans are free but the weird hull shapes of their pre-dreadnoughts and ironclads make them rather more challenging to scratchbuild!
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2010, 06:41:47 PM »

The hull is beginning to come together now.

have applied some filler and sanded it all down, cut the stern sides to shape and rounded off the hull/keel edges.

Next job is to fit the combings that will take the lift-off section of the deck.
Though I have run out of balsa now so the build is hold pending supplies (hopefully tomorrow lunchtime if I'm lucky)

Anyway, progress:

Logged

Dreadstar

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 06:44:34 PM »

That's coming along nicely Graf,keep up the good work. :-))
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 10:37:37 PM »

Thanks Dreadstar,

I'm looking forward to seeing your build of this ship soon.

I know you were planing to modify it slightly for more realism, and also Edward Pinniger was thinking about a breastwork ship also, so I hope the following link is of use:

I found these plans for a freely downloadable card model of HMVS Cerberus, which is very similar. Although the model is designed for a waterline model only, there are some hull sections further down the page. I know it's not what they were intended for but it might add a bit more grist to the mill, so to speak, for those of you struggling for detailing ideas or hull shape.

http://www.papershipwright.co.uk/ps02/details.shtml

Have a look and see what you think.
I doubt I'll be detailing my build much. Just need to make her seaworthy and and get my head round the RC installation, motors etc. in this first build.
Logged

GrafVonJon

  • Guest
Re: First Scratch Build - 1870s Costal Defence Ship
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 08:00:35 PM »

Tonight's progress:

coamings fitted to the hull.

Build is going OK, but the more I get glued together, the more I see gaps, twists and items that are not flush. I'm amazed by the craftsmanship of some of the other members on here. I wasn't expecting my first build would be a masterpiece, but I'll have to stop using that excuse eventually.

If I was smart, I should have built the boat first and then uploaded the photos at the end, only if it turned out OK  ;)
For now I'll just keep hoping I can get this build to the end in half decent shape.

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up