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Author Topic: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?  (Read 6910 times)

Foggy bottom

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Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« on: October 05, 2010, 11:45:19 pm »

Seems to me, Back when I was racing "punkin' seeds. If a hull didn't come up on the step soon enough we would shim the mount of the outboard to tilt the prop up some so as to lift the bow. In this case mount the motor lower and raise the prop.

Dave, in the hinterlands
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 08:26:03 am »

The angle-of-dangle doesnt come into it much, the bulging aerofoil shaped forward hull is the agreed problem. I`ve got a "level" and an "upward pointing" drive shaft on a couple of mine.  Only result is more rooster-tail propwash. Batteries to the rear to give about +5 degrees of bow-up when static seems to help and of course dont over-power a Springer. >>:-(   
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Foggy bottom

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 09:45:15 pm »

 Arrow,
Thank you for the reply, It seemed too easy (I thought of it, IT MUST be easy) You saved me some of that disgusting "re-do" time! I'm not sure what I will "do" with a springer once it's finished, There does not seem to be any r/c boaters here in Boise. There are lots of r/c flyers though, And they support one hobby shop. If you call Parks & recreation they will tell you "if it's electric any park pond is ok". Makes me want a fast electric (To blow their sox off)  %)
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 02:47:16 am »

I tried the same change in propeller shaft angle, and also ended up with a bigger roostertail.

Toesupwa tried hydrofoils, and also found no improvement.

After adding a pump to the stern of my Springer, it dove a lot less.
I ended up adding about 3 ounces of weight to the bow so that it would
start plowing again... It scares some of the other model boaters, so I thought
I would just keep the "plow under" and enjoy the reactions.

 :}

.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 04:07:13 pm »

I tried the same change in propeller shaft angle, and also ended up with a bigger roostertail.

Toesupwa tried hydrofoils, and also found no improvement.

After adding a pump to the stern of my Springer, it dove a lot less.
I ended up adding about 3 ounces of weight to the bow so that it would
start plowing again... It scares some of the other model boaters, so I thought
I would just keep the "plow under" and enjoy the reactions.

 :}

.
I think you just missed the International Plowing Match,
http://www.ipm2010.com/
How straight a furrow can you do?
Regards,
Gerald.
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toesupwa

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 06:32:05 pm »

I thought that is what a Springer was supposed to do...  %)
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Foggy bottom

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2010, 09:26:38 pm »

WOW!
I've Sailed on wet deckers but if I saw that I'd be clearing the dingy for launch!
Dave
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CGAux26

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 02:46:59 am »

Lynden, Washington has a plowing match each spring, but it's done with pairs of draft horses pulling the plow.  Clydesdales, Belgians, etc.  Speed has nothing to do with, just how straight and whether your furrow is a uniform depth.  Talk about your low-end torque!
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 07:37:46 pm »

Then of course the complete solution to Springer diving...if it looks like a duck , quacks like a duke then......
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 07:44:56 pm »

...forgot to say they dive OK :embarrassed: bit reluctant to surface again. Dont ask ! :((
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 08:04:42 pm »

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chingdevil

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 08:25:33 pm »

Like arrow5 I have moved the batteries in my springer backwards to raise the nose, it works ok until full power then you hope you have a big enough coaming inside the superstructure. The picture toes posted looks just right for a springer, about an inch of water pouring across the decks. I have tried various motor prop combinations and only one thing works for certain, do not use full throttle %% %% %% %% %% %% %%

Arrow do your subs dive right under or just go really low in the water?

Brian
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 08:26:26 am »

Ching, no they don't go right under but I`ve had the deck part awash with only the tubular section and sail showing. Toesup`s Red Oktober (top of picture) however is a much better shape with a large bulge forward and no flat surface just doesn't let the water go anywhere.  The reference I made to "going under"  was an incident I had with a standard shape (eh?) Springer which got snagged on a fishing line and was pulled stern down and filled with water. I made sure all subsequent Springers had plenty of buoyancy built-in !  A strange contradiction  is the rough water performance of the Springer as it tobogans over the waves instead trying to cut through them.
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 10:09:27 pm »

Red Oktober in rough water tests , see previous post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s53B01aVSxc
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 11:56:23 pm »

Let the USMC 'take a bow' for their success:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B9S6JeY6kI&feature=fvw                %)
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 08:43:31 am »

Yep, nice one for those of a military bent .   Must have disc brakes by the way it stops.  A Springer version with a bridge up front would be an interesting change from barge pushing.  Go on Perkyman, do one !
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chrise

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2010, 02:57:46 pm »

Must have disc brakes by the way it stops.

Just water jet power banged into reverse I think.
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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 03:49:46 pm »

Just water jet power banged into reverse I think.
Which would be the "buckets" full back and full throttle I presume {:-{.  Any bridge-pushing Springers based on this ?????
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chrise

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2010, 04:23:41 pm »

Which would be the "buckets" full back and full throttle I presume {:-{.  Any bridge-pushing Springers based on this ?????

Great system. It is actually a couple of cups but effectively a U Bend that just drops behind water outlet. Full forward to full reverse in half a second & without touching the throttle. I am told that it feels very dramatic when you are in the boat by someone who had a ride in one of those Kiwi racer jet boats.

Another example :-)) %) O0 %% :-):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZvVn7eFZrc&feature=fvsr
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2010, 06:39:36 pm »

Which would be the "buckets" full back and full throttle I presume {:-{.  Any bridge-pushing Springers based on this ?????

Nick in Australia did one of these based on a Springer hull

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1260951

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1268547

 ok2
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2010, 10:52:43 pm »

 :} My idea is to duplicate the forward ramped underside on the springer bow and lower this ramp forward to enable 'planing'. It would retract and fit snug as a double skin on the bow when not deployed. It would deflect the bow wave easily under the hull but the bottom of the hull may still need an extended flat area to give some degree of stability at speed and because of its poor beam/length ratio and rectangular form. This is not a planing hull form but a few minimal tweaks/mods might just turn it into a flyer. A mechanism to deploy/secure the secondary hinged 'planing' ramp at the bow accurately is a real brainache. This suggestion is also a USMC 'first' as far as I'm aware:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOfXL1yURu4

A springer build is'nt a priority right now but I could'nt resist offering the idea and Youtube clip.

(The springer hull does remind me of the lightweight 'sled' hull aero powered boats I and many others built hundreds of years ago.)

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Arrow5

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 09:03:03 am »

...any hundred year old pictures?   Mine of the same period were pretty well flat bottomed, like section of an aeroplane wing, all balsa, 3.5 diesel, airscrew drive,no throttle, no silencer, no radio. Ran in big circles , needed big calm water. Size must have been Springer size but not so fat .lasted for years , finally found stone wall to demolish...failed, the wall won.  Still got the engine.   Your smoothing ramp idea is interesting but why bother  ?  Springer hydroplane ?  I think not .    The frenetic  Super Duck and the similar outrunner powered Super Springer ( Czech or Hungarian ?) had the power to get the bow-wave under the boat with massive overpowering. It is on youtube somewhere, funny as heck.
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chrise

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2010, 10:30:31 am »

I remember an article from Model Boats - or Model Maker Magazine as it was then - extrolling the virtues of "kitchen rudders" in the mid 1950's. Very similar idea but not associated with high speed craft. Are there any still  about on models?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_rudder
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nick_75au

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2010, 11:00:15 am »

I remember an article from Model Boats - or Model Maker Magazine as it was then - extrolling the virtues of "kitchen rudders" in the mid 1950's. Very similar idea but not associated with high speed craft. Are there any still  about on models?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_rudder

With apologies to MBM, I have gathered some info here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=142942

I built one that uses a v-tail mixer that simplifies the mechanical links to plain servo arms (never installed in a boat :embarrassed:) so a plain 2 channel radio can be used

Nick
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chrise

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Re: Solution to "plowing" Problem ?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2010, 11:54:41 am »

I built one that uses a v-tail mixer that simplifies the mechanical links to plain servo arms (never installed in a boat :embarrassed:) so a plain 2 channel radio can be used

Great - I just love weird engineering like this. So much more interesting.

Chris
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