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Author Topic: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics  (Read 3425 times)

Bob the Builder

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A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« on: October 06, 2010, 04:17:08 PM »

Gents,


I recently began construction of my 1:100 Engel Typhoon and I fully plan to share my buildup with all of you shortly, however I'm having an issue right now that I need help with.

I've got all the guts into my Typhoon project and everything is working (for now) except for the most important thing... that' being the Engel TMAX dive system.

I've double checked all of the wiring twice, and I'm relatively certain that it is connected correctly according to the instructions. I'm using an F-14 Navy Twin Stick for control along with the 12+2 transmitter/decoder module. The dive system is currently set up on channel 5 direct from the main receiver, NOT the decoder. Fine trim is connected to channel 6, again on the main receiver. Trim control is currently connected to K7 on the decoder, which is a proportional channel, but not direct from the receiver.

What is happening right now is that the system will operate properly for the main flood/dive operation. It does not respond in any way to inputs from Ch.6 or Ch.7. I tried swapping those channels out, but it makes no difference. I get no fine control or trim control. The units do not react in the slightest to these inputs. To further confound me, from time to time when I test, a command for neutral buoyancy will flood the tanks, but then immediately thereafter my stern tank empties and returns to fully retracted with the bow tank fully extended.

I've double checked and the F-14 is operating on PPM and the setting for the decoder is PPM as well.

I know the instructions say that the ballast needs to run off of true proportional channels from the receiver, and I do have both the main flood/blow function and the fine trim function off of true proportional channels (the two center sliders on the transmitter). Would having the trim function even plugged into the decoder cause this? I haven't had the chance to try disconnecting that yet...

Also, on a quasi-related note, I currently have my bow retracts working off of a momentary-retract and latching-extend switch on the 12+2 module. This is done so that the bow plane servo can remain actuated while the planes are extended. In a momentary setup, the relay does not stay actuated and the bow servo does not function. My issue is this: When the extend command is given, the switch latches, even when you return it to center position. If I forget to unlatch the switch, BOTH the extend and retract relays activate and all sorts of badness happens. Is there a switch that I can use that latches, but only when the switch is in the activation position? As it works now, the switch latches when you flip it down, but then to turn it off you need to return the switch to center position and then back to flipped position and then back again to neutral position (who THOUGHT of that?!?) Can I modify the existing switch to eliminate the latching ability so that the relay is actuated only when the switch is in that position?

Any help that you can offer would be greatly appreciated!
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Sub driver

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 07:37:04 PM »

you don't half know how to complicate things don't you.

I have an Engel Akua with twin tanks  (tae ) and bow vanes open and close and scopes extend etc.
all work of of the standard Robbe F14 expanded to 8 channel but no decoder used just the prop sliders and switches. the bow planes open / close off a twin position switch ( open / close ) they rotate off of a proportional channel that returns to neutral ( ie sprung ) otherwise you cannot close them. both dive tanks work of another proportional channel, you may well have the connections to one of the tank motors the wrong way around try swapping them, this could be the reason for one emptying and the other flooding. try using the standard prop channels for all the operating things except the open close front vanes etc and see how you get along.

don't know of this is any use but...I had an issue with the tanks when i first built mine, all the wireing was correct to plan but the wrong way around on one tank motor. keep an eye on the tank when you change and be prepared to cut power quick if it looks like it is going to overun the end switches.

hope its of use.

Sub. :-)
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Bob the Builder

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 09:14:00 PM »

Thanks for the quick reply. 

Both dive tanks flood and expel together, so I know my wiring is right at least for the polarity of the motors.

I actually emailed Gregor and he got back to me almost right away (Excellent customer service!).  He said that ALL ballast leads MUST be plugged into a genuine channel.  As I mentioned, I hadn't tried disconnecting the decoder from the TMAX board, so I'll try that as soon as I can to see if it helps.  Seems strange to me that one lead plugged into the decoder would stall only one of the two true channels, but then again I'm no expert.

In regard to the switches, I found out that you can snip a wire in the decoder that switches the decoder from "latched" to "momentary".  Live and learn!  I'll get that modification done ASAP as well and see what happens!


Bob
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Sub driver

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 08:47:49 AM »

Glad you seam to be sorted. That was what I was trying to say try the proportional channels for ballast etc but I couldn't frase it correctly like you have. before you dive her check that the failsafe empties both tanks just to make sure everthing is ok. you can simulate this by bench flooding you tanks then when flooded turn the tranny off after a few seconds the dive system should go into failsafe mode and fully blow both tanks. always worth doing prior to each sail too.  good luck any pics of her as i have a typhoon too. . regards sub.



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hollowhornbear

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 11:13:02 AM »

are you either of you going to the Dive-in at brockwell lido on Sunday, if so there will be plenty of help on hand.
info on this thread, http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24682.0
all the best
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Bob the Builder

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2010, 05:51:52 PM »

good luck any pics of her as i have a typhoon too. . regards sub.

Here are just two shots of the model, taken weeks ago.  I'm nearing time for wet-trials and final ballasting (once I figure out this damned tank issue).

As way of a brief summary, however, I've chopped the upper deck up pretty good to give unrestricted access to the interior.  The access hatches are composed of four pieces, the smallest of which is just before the periscopes and will allow for quick access for turning the unit on and charging the batteries.  The lids are made from 1/4" clear polycarbonate which means I'll actually be able to see what's going on as well. 

I've got each motor running on a separate channel as well as a bow thruster, so I hope to be able to maneuver around fairly well in a pinch.
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Mankster

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2010, 06:55:28 PM »

Glad to see her coming along Bob. On mine the top of the motor gearbox unit was so close to the top of the middle deck that had I put a lid over it, the bolt heads would have prevented me from being able to slide it out for servicing.

The Tmax unit will work with just the Dive switch, and fine vertical trim on the main proportional channels.  You can just unplug the fore/aft trim plg frum the Decoder/rx and the first 2 function should work just fine without the Fore/Aft trim. I use a 2 position switch for the Dive channel and 2 sliders for vertical Trim and for aft Trim.

Thefore dive plane servo should only operate when there is no signal being sent to the retract mechanism (retract or extend). So it you have a ltaching switch the Servo should not operate whilst it is latched. I use a centre off non latching 3 way switch on the decoder box and it works perfect. If yours does not do this then there is a wiring error or a fault in the unit.

Sub driver

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2010, 07:06:05 PM »

Thx for the Pics Bob. :-))

always nice to see another Typhoon.

Regards Sub.
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Bob the Builder

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 08:29:31 PM »

I've got the peripherals working perfectly now.  The 12+2 decoder has a way to disable the latching by going in and performing minor surgery on the board.  I did that, and now my periscopes, retracts, and bow thrusters are all working perfectly.

Still having issues getting the TMAX to work on channels 6 and 7 for fine trim and pitch.  Gregor Engel figures I may have my wiring to my sliding pots on the dive tanks screwed up.  I checked them three times, but I'll try reversing them anyway and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the info!  I got some paint on it this morning and I'm really anxious to get her wet!  Soon!  Very soon!
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Bob the Builder

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 02:17:36 PM »

Alrighty,


So I have a three way switch installed and working properly.  K5 is running off of that switch and K6 and 7 are working off of channel 5 and 6 of the transmitter, which are proportional sliders.  If a photo is worth a thousand words, please check out this video and peruse a million!:

Looking for any input that anyone has at all.  I'm stumped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXZTyZRmfiY
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Sub driver

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 04:54:41 PM »

Bob.
Just watched your video, the front tank appears to be working correctly which would indicate that the problem is with the rear tank. Try disconecting the rear tank and concentrate on the front tank if it is working correctly then it is definately a wiring issue with the rear tank. As i posted earlier my Akula TAE was something similar and the wiring was checked several times without any fault being found and eventually it was needed to change the wires over on the motor of the tank that was not working correctly.

I note you have the tanks on a 3 position switch...have you tried them on a proportional channel ? ie a sprung stick ( returns to neutral ) with centre being fully blown and down fully flooded, then to surface move the stick fully up. ?

Hope its of use.

Regards Sub.
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Bob the Builder

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Re: A little help re: Engel Typhoon electronics
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2010, 05:38:18 PM »

Well...

The "Ghost in the machine" seems to have been exorcised.  I played with the board for a while last week and after my return to the original wiring, it suddenly... worked.  It bugs the hell out of me not to know WHY it now works, but I'm not going to complain too loudly.  As of right now, the ballast system seems to be working perfectly.

Moving onto trimming this weekend!

Thanks, everyone, for your help!


Bob
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