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Author Topic: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!  (Read 9363 times)

tigertiger

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2010, 01:50:02 pm »

Sadly the JIT (Just In Time) system of ordering would not work in the military. The supply chain is too long, and there is also a need to keep obsolete spares for vehicles and equipment that nobody else still uses.

When I left the Army 20 years ago our unit still had AEC 10 Tonners and Milicents, the oldest of which dated back to WW2, and we still had to carry spares for them. And there were other spares parts that are specific to vehicles or equipment that nobody else uses, e.g. Landrover with a 24v system, 1 ton Landrover, Stalwarts, Saxon.
Add to this the military equipment, including artillery pieces. The usual supply chain management (seen in civy street) is not appropriate.

Although the specific vehicles may have changed, I am sure it is still true today.
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Circlip

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2010, 01:56:34 pm »

Quote
Which were both excellent examples of non future proofing designs and prove my point!

 Don't matter how future proof the pointy end of an Exocet is looking at, and yes, if they'd bothered to fit a Gatling gun it might have helped.


  
Quote
I never had in store more than a weeks worth of materials at any time that was the job of the supplier

  Ah yes, the wonderment of "Just in time" supplies. Someone else has to store it and errode their rates budgets and interest rates  on a when and IF I want it basis. :-))

  Regards  Ian.

 Edit. Yes Tiger and when the Bridgenorth depot burned down, we were asked to qoute on the replacement of some items going back to the fifties.
  
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2010, 02:10:20 pm »

Colin,
JIT (Just in Time) is a fine commercial concept which works well but I have yet to find any supplier prepared to deliver to a war zone.
That is left to your incapable and can't be bothered civil servants staff.
The size of the project(s) isn't the problem, usually delivery is.
That is why I find it so disappointing that people who have rum large contract(s) like yourself compare the Mod to a civilian, stable, UK based contracts.
It may surprise you but delivery drivers tend to get quite reluctant to carry out their deliveries in places like Helmand Province, but the ground troops still require stores to function.
This system has to be in place 24/7 because the areas of operation are not known until something happens.

Almost all my ex-colleagues in MoD tried to give a good efficient service, but with the politicians interference you will NEVER get it.

Bob
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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2010, 02:12:08 pm »

One of the benefits of globalisation is that no serious, technologically advanced country can now stand alone. We're all part of a interrelated network of trade, supply, services and goods, all reliant on one other.

I'd argue that it's therefore inconceivable (within any short-to-medium term timescale) that we could see this country directly threatened (Paul's "invasion") by any other. For that reason, any "hot war"/"cold war" military force of a scale we've seen in the past is an unaffordable nonsense.

That said, there are threats:

Peak Oil
Peak Water
Human-influenced climate change
Ideological terrorism
Denial of Service cybercrime
Drugs and organised crime

Much of our current navy - or for that matter, the two new aircraft carriers - will not have an essential role to play in most of the above. Worse, for those roles where we could see some benefit to having a fleet, there are other - often cheaper - methods of force projection and delivery.

We might like to think of those days where the British Empire covered the globe and was reliant on a large Navy, but it's a total fantasy in the modern age.

Andy
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Colin H

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2010, 04:20:14 pm »


Again TT I agree with some of what you say. I to spent ten years in theRoyal Armoured Corp so I know supplies at that level can be difficult especially in the field.

But it would seem that some people are in denial about the glaringly obvious fact that there are saving to be made within the civilian side of the MoD.

During my time as a contracts manager I spent most of my day at the private/public sector work interface. Working for local council's and for the MoD in married quarters etc.

Everyone always added 5% to those jobs because everyone knew we would be hide bound by fools in suit's. Running round changing specs and generally making a nuisance of them selves.

I don't think there will be much sympathy for the civil servants this time round.

Colin H.
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Netleyned

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2010, 04:47:52 pm »

Colin Bishop
HMS Eagle had a complement of 2700 when I was on it in 67-69
Probably half of the future Navy strength!

Ned
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2010, 04:52:49 pm »

NO there will be no sympathy now.
We are running like a 3rd world country where everything is graded by the Lowest Common Denominator.
As we watch the rich get richer, the gap between average earnings is widening again.

Bob
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Perks842

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2010, 05:27:18 pm »

I would hate to be a Falkland Islander reading the latest news or listening to BBCWS


Ned


I'd love to see Argentina try, as a current serving member there is a lot of finger pointing and some really stupid comments floating around here. people are even saying things beyond stupidity which our government only goes as far as not making sense but never stupidity.

Lets just remember this country has been sucked slowly of money for years since the early 80s and with MPs getting all this money for doing a job that many of us could happily do for 30k a year and what about the 8-9 Billion a year we send to Africa which goes nowhere.

The GREAT will be stripped of this countries name soon.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2010, 05:45:39 pm »

Quote
Colin Bishop
HMS Eagle had a complement of 2700 when I was on it in 67-69
Probably half of the future Navy strength!

Ned

Yes, the older ships were a lot more labour intensive! Must have been quite an experience for you.

I have just been looking up the figures for the Ark Royal and QE2 classes.

Ark Royal: Crew 685; Air Group 366

QE2: Crew 600; AirGroup 900 with 40 aircraft (which may never now happen!)

Interesting to see there is an actual reduction in crew numbers. Have you any idea of the crew number on Eagle excluding the air group?

Colin
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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2010, 05:50:25 pm »

From Private Eye:



 %)
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keef666

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2010, 02:44:20 pm »

And this was for baling the banks out!
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Circlip

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2010, 04:17:18 pm »

No, this was for spending more than we earn.

  Regards  Ian.
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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2010, 05:32:41 pm »

I think you're wrong, Ian. The banks got into trouble for dodgy dealing, mortgages on properties that weren't worth it, and sticking their trotters into huge bonuses, and - after a month or two of ire - WE, the public, end up quietly paying for their errors with all these cuts, whilst it's business as usual for them.  >>:-(

Andy
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Bowwave

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2010, 05:51:53 pm »

A nice Ideas but in the reality   governments have an obligation to parliament to ensure the banking industry is "properly regulated through the FSA. Unfortunately this undertaking was slackened and allowed the   banking industry to run amok. In simple terms if you own a rottweiler  make sure you have it on a lead . .
Bowwave
 >>:-(
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sailorboy61

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2010, 07:12:14 pm »

You can go back 15 years or more to the root of this problem....... SHE is to blame, the start of the 'loadsa money' age...... everyone look after No.1 and ***k the rest........., and we have all been well and truely *****d!
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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2010, 08:19:14 pm »

Excellent, sailorboy61!

I'll be seeing you on the barricades.  :-))

Andy
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keef666

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2010, 08:00:12 am »

You can go back 15 years or more to the root of this problem....... SHE is to blame, the start of the 'loadsa money' age...... everyone look after No.1 and ***k the rest........., and we have all been well and truely *****d!
Oh yes the evil one! ha ha!
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Circlip

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Re: HMS Ark Royal to be scrapped!
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2010, 04:21:43 pm »

"How much do we want to borrow??? Oh, yes, 25000"

 "And we still had enough left to go on holiday"     %) ;D

    Regards  Ian
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